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Palestine: Fatah And Hamas Movements To Form A New Unity Government

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TheDemSocialist

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The Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority has agreed to form a unity government with rival organisation Hamas, Al Jazeera has learned.The agreement was reached late on Tuesday after a three-day negotiation in the Russian capital, Moscow.
The two organisations will form a new National Council, which will include Palestinians in exile and hold elections.



"Today the conditions for [such an initiative] are better than ever," Azzam al-Ahmad, a senior Fatah official, said.
The deal also includes the Islamic Jihad group, which had not been involved in negotiations for a long time
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Read more @: Fatah and Hamas to form unity government | Palestine News | Al Jazeera

I guess if at first you dont succeed, try again. Hopefully elections will actually go forward this time.
 
I doubt that those two factions would ever unite.
 
oneworld2 said:
I would like to believe this can work but I am very doubtful to say the least.

The Israelis will be doing their level best to undermine any genuine moves for reconciliation and unity...................... united we stand , divided we fall , same as it ever was
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yea like Israel needs to intervene for this to fail...
 
oneworld2 said:
I would like to believe this can work but I am very doubtful to say the least.

The Israelis will be doing their level best to undermine any genuine moves for reconciliation and unity...................... united we stand , divided we fall , same as it ever was
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Yeah.

Or the personal and political interests of these parties, combined with the lack of any sort of civil society norms or institutions in Palestinian society, may prevent any long term reconciliation between various corrupted terrorist organizations in a manner consistent with the failure of middle eastern parties of all sorts to actually maintain social cohesion in any sort of system that does not depend on the permanent dominance of one of them.

But probably just those dastardly Israelis...
 
ido_ said:
yea like Israel needs to intervene for this to fail...
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Be sure if it shows any sign of success , as unlikely as that may be ,the Israelis will create something to derail it
 
oneworld2 said:
Be sure if it shows any sign of success , as unlikely as that may be ,the Israelis will create something to derail it
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A Hamas that is tethered to a coherent, relatively stable, and outward facing political establishment could conceivably be in Israel's best interest. The reality is that there is little prospect of any agreement holding up, and almost none of it leading to any substantial changes.
 
TheDemSocialist said:





Read more @: Fatah and Hamas to form unity government | Palestine News | Al Jazeera

I guess if at first you dont succeed, try again. Hopefully elections will actually go forward this time.
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Neither Fatah, nor Hamas, want elections. Hamas doesn't want them because their administration has so transparently been a disaster and their popularity has plunged making a renewed majority a subject of doubt, while Fatah doesn't want it because the senior leadership fears being overturned and because its hideous reputation for corruption and malmanagement of somehow made them as unpopular as Hamas, if not worse.
 
Sherman123 said:
A Hamas that is tethered to a coherent, relatively stable, and outward facing political establishment could conceivably be in Israel's best interest.
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How so , in your opinion ?

The reality is that there is little prospect of any agreement holding up, and almost none of it leading to any substantial changes.
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I think to disregard the Israeli influence over Palestinian leaderships and the divide and conquer tactics used thus far so as to give the illusion of a progressing peace process whilst changing the facts on the ground with settlement/wall building is a folly when discussing inter factional Palestinian politics
 
I posted this in 2016. Lets just add January 2017 to the time line.

Serenity said:
History tells us that this will be another miserable failure. A very brief timeline and I'm sure I've missed some.

March 2007 - Fatah and Hamas form national unity government to end months of intermittent clashes in Gaza.

June 2007 - Not even three months later, Unity government founders and Hamas ousts Fatah from Gaza and reinforces its control of the territory.

March 2008 - Efforts at reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas begin in Yemen, but next round in Cairo in November stalls when Hamas objects to Fatah arrest of its West Bank activists.

February 2010 - Fatah and Hamas resume talks on national reconciliation.

April 2011- Fatah and Hamas agree at talks in Cairo to reform a unity government and hold fresh elections, but no practical implementation follows.

May 2013 - Fatah and Hamas announce that they have set a three-month timetable to form a unity government

April 2014 - Fatah and Hamas agree to form unity government, which takes office in June. Fatah complains that separate Hamas cabinet continues to rule Gaza.

June 2015 - Abbas announces that the unity government Fatah formed with Hamas last year would dissolve within 24 hours. Abbas then ordered Hamdallah to form a new government that includes a range of parties, including Hamas but Hamas rejected Abbas’ unilateral decision to dissolve the government. A Hamas spokesman said they were apparently pissed because no one consulted with them about any change in the unity government.

February 2016 - And here we go again.
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Really not sure how anyone who is a genuine supporter of the Palestinians right to self determination and cares about the plight of the ordinary people there, can't see that the predominant reason a Unity Government has not been able to be formed is due to the inactions of the Palestinian Leadership.
 
oneworld2 said:
I would like to believe this can work but I am very doubtful to say the least.

The Israelis will be doing their level best to undermine any genuine moves for reconciliation and unity...................... united we stand , divided we fall , same as it ever was
Click to expand...

Those damned Israelis! Why can't they play nicely and just accept the destruction of their nation and the murder of their people? They have no excuse to thwart the will of the oxymoronicaly named 'Democratic Socialist' and his ilk.
 
Serenity said:
Really not sure how anyone who is a genuine supporter of the Palestinians right to self determination and cares about the plight of the ordinary people there, can't see that the predominant reason a Unity Government has not been able to be formed is due to the inactions of the Palestinian Leadership.
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" Genuine " according to you ?

To me the exact opposite of your statement is nearer the truth, as was shown to some degree in the quote of yours that you decided to repost. It went some way into showing some of the actions taken by Palestinian leaderships and they underscore the point I was making.

When Hamas won the elections in 2006 ( Palestinian self determination albeit a limited one ) the result was met with an almost blanket freeze out of the PAs patrons accompanied by the suspension of funds by the US/EU , the UN and the withholding of tax payments owed to the PA by Israel. The self proclaimed champions of democracy sometimes show their true feelings/contempt for it as they did here , though not an isolated occasion for those who study it .

Behind the scenes the US , Israel and Abbas and co were plotting a coup to ouster Hamas. Hamas , however , preempted it and threw out Fatah from the Gaza strip. So much for any alleged " inaction " from the Palestinian leaderships. This was ,btw , included in the original post of yours you quoted , mentioned above.

For sure there is much wrong with Palestinian factional infighting ,corruption and other stuff and they do shoulder a certain amount of responsibility for the lack of unity but to ignore the massive influence of the other players in this conflict is to miss the elephant sat next to you imho

The Palestinian political factions have been forced by their patrons and occupiers into a hopeless and destructive cycle of violence/harrassment against each other that is just a modern day example of the old imperialist tactics of divide and conquer that has played out , with great success , throughout history.

It is the outside influence that is brought to bear on the Palestinians that is the " predominant " reason for the abject failure for Palestinian unity and not any inaction of their leaderships

Here's some links to put the meat on the bones of the above...........

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22659.pdf

The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)
 
Sweden said:
Those damned Israelis! Why can't they play nicely and just accept the destruction of their nation and the murder of their people?
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What you fail to realize ,imo , is that the changing of the facts on the ground in the occupied territories, that makes the two state solution today something of a dead horse, might itself ultimately destroy Israel , like it's been the cause of the moral degeneration of the population save a few noble outliers for whom I have the utmost respect
 
oneworld2 said:
What you fail to realize ,imo , is that the changing of the facts on the ground in the occupied territories, that makes the two state solution today something of a dead horse, might itself ultimately destroy Israel , like it's been the cause of the moral degeneration of the population save a few noble outliers for whom I have the utmost respect
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Thank you for making your position clear: Anyone who agrees with you is noble, while the rest of us poor souls are morally degenerate. How will I live with the shame.

Btw while I am here - the left seek to impose their will by brute force. In their eyes the collective has absolute priority over the individual, so calling oneself a 'left libertarian' is a joke in poor taste.
 
oneworld2 said:
Be sure if it shows any sign of success , as unlikely as that may be ,the Israelis will create something to derail it
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be sure that it wont show any sign of success.
 
Sweden said:
How will I live with the shame.
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I'm sure you'll cope somehow

Btw while I am here - the left seek to impose their will by brute force. In their eyes the collective has absolute priority over the individual, so calling oneself a 'left libertarian' is a joke in poor taste.
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This isn't the place to discuss such issues as I'm sure you know already. If you want to you can point me to a thread where it is appropriate discussion and I might furnish you with an answer
 
ido_ said:
be sure that it wont show any sign of success.
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Predominantly for the reason given above it should be noted
 
ido_ said:
no, not for that reason, it never was, and it won't be now.
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I think the evidence I gave for it clearly shows otherwise
 
Interesting the claim how the Israeli people, save for a few noble outliers, have undergone a general moral degeneration.
 
Chagos said:
Interesting the claim how the Israeli people, save for a few noble outliers, have undergone a general moral degeneration.
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It is. I think it might actually read: "Most Israelis don't agree with my views. They are degenerate. The few who do agree with my views are among the guiding lights of humankind."
 
oneworld2 said:
" Genuine " according to you ?

To me the exact opposite of your statement is nearer the truth, as was shown to some degree in the quote of yours that you decided to repost. It went some way into showing some of the actions taken by Palestinian leaderships and they underscore the point I was making.

When Hamas won the elections in 2006 ( Palestinian self determination albeit a limited one ) the result was met with an almost blanket freeze out of the PAs patrons accompanied by the suspension of funds by the US/EU , the UN and the withholding of tax payments owed to the PA by Israel. The self proclaimed champions of democracy sometimes show their true feelings/contempt for it as they did here , though not an isolated occasion for those who study it .

Behind the scenes the US , Israel and Abbas and co were plotting a coup to ouster Hamas. Hamas , however , preempted it and threw out Fatah from the Gaza strip. So much for any alleged " inaction " from the Palestinian leaderships. This was ,btw , included in the original post of yours you quoted , mentioned above.

For sure there is much wrong with Palestinian factional infighting ,corruption and other stuff and they do shoulder a certain amount of responsibility for the lack of unity but to ignore the massive influence of the other players in this conflict is to miss the elephant sat next to you imho

The Palestinian political factions have been forced by their patrons and occupiers into a hopeless and destructive cycle of violence/harrassment against each other that is just a modern day example of the old imperialist tactics of divide and conquer that has played out , with great success , throughout history.

It is the outside influence that is brought to bear on the Palestinians that is the " predominant " reason for the abject failure for Palestinian unity and not any inaction of their leaderships

Here's some links to put the meat on the bones of the above...........

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RS22659.pdf

The Gaza Bombshell | Vanity Fair

https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie...palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gaza_(2007)
Click to expand...

Yep. There are consequences to elections, and the United States and Israel were under no obligation to continue giving material support to a government headed by a political 'party' that also maintains a large terrorist militia holding existentially oppositional views to the state it is in conflict with. Furthermore, Hamas won a slim majority in 2006. That didn't give them the right to engage in an auto coup d'etat and slaughter Fatah members in Gaza and expel them.

If the BNP won an election in the UK we wouldn't carry on as though it were business as usual. Life isn't fair. Sorry.
 
Sherman123 said:
Yep. There are consequences to elections, and the United States and Israel were under no obligation to continue giving material support to a government headed by a political 'party' that also maintains a large terrorist militia holding existentially oppositional views to the state it is in conflict with.
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That's fine and dandy so long as you don't claim to be the world champions of democracy promotion.

Have you seen an Israeli political party that is willing to recognize a Palestinian state on all of the Occupied Territories with East Jerusalem as its capital ? That's what the law states they should be entitled to. How come you don't wish to see anything extreme/rejectionist in this stance ?

Likud has its origins in the Herut party whos platform in the early days was one of outright rejection of negotiations with Arabs , they didn't even recognize the state of Jordan claiming it as a part of Eretz Israel. Has anybody bothered to ask them to renounce these claims before they can be considered worthy of a seat on the negotiating table ? Not to my knowledge

Ha anyone demanded that Israel stop killing Palestinians in droves before they can go to any negotiations regarding a settlement of the conflict ? If not why not

There a really easy way to test whether or not Hamas is willing to accept a two state solution based on the 67 borders , as it has stated it would , and that is to negotiate with them. Or you can just live in 1988 when a handful of Palestinians created the Hamas movement and included in its mandate the objective of liberating all of Palestine and use it as an excuse for the continuing impasse .

Remember that the advent of Hamas is 30 years behind the advent of the PLO. If Hamas is the obstacle to peace why wasn't it sorted out in the 30 years prior to their existence ?

Furthermore, Hamas won a slim majority in 2006. That didn't give them the right to engage in an auto coup d'etat and slaughter Fatah members in Gaza and expel them.
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They won the election , accept it .They preempted a coup that was planned by the US and it's allies. It was in the links you , evidently , chose to ignore.


If the BNP won an election in the UK we wouldn't carry on as though it were business as usual. Life isn't fair. Sorry.
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You can't claim to be a supporter of democracy and then cry foul and wish to overturn decisions because you don't like the result. I would have thought that much was at least obvious
 
humbolt said:
It is. I think it might actually read: "Most Israelis don't agree with my views. They are degenerate. The few who do agree with my views are among the guiding lights of humankind."
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What happens is , when you dehumanize the targeted enemy , the willingness to support policies and crimes against them rises to such a level that the most heinous of acts is applauded and roundly supported with just a few , bitterly resented/detested , dissident voices.

It is the same on the Palestinian side if it makes you feel any better.

In fact its true of many places. Very few individuals are resistant to the national indoctrination systems they are subjected to every day of their lives. For instance , you most likely see your own nation as a hugely benevolent force in the world and are willing to do the filtering out of inconvenient truths you may come across in order to maintain that perception
 
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