Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerusalem

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

hm, I think it´s not that easy. If Israel would not call their capial "West Jerusalem" it would be a Statement for "whole Jerusalem" even if they move to the western part. And Israel wount do that IMO.

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

german hick said:

hm, I think it´s not that easy. If Israel would not call their capial "West Jerusalem" it would be a Statement for "whole Jerusalem" even if they move to the western part. And Israel wount do that IMO.

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Well then they should have put it in West Jerusalem in the 50s.

In any event, like with the settlements, this is a fake issue. If Israel and the Palestinians strike a deal that involves the Palestinians acquiring any part of East Jerusalem, the embassy which will undoubtedly be in West Jerusalem won't need to move. And any "settlements" in territory given to the Palestinians could move if needed.

Just another fake issue where the worry is that this will inflame Arab Muslim racism and prejudice against Jews and sensitivities about "provoking" that racism rather than standing up to the racist bullies.

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

sounds for me like you are not interested in any other opinion than your own - everything that fits not in your worldview seems to be "fake"

IMO you are right, lots of Arabs do hate the state of Israel and I ´wount defend that. May be for reason, may be not - thats a question of opinion. But you wount solve any problem with reckless ways to deal with it in my opinion, unless you favor a "final solution" wich gives any German with a little sense for history a quite bad taste...

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

german hick said:

sounds for me like you are not interested in any other opinion than your own - everything that fits not in your worldview seems to be "fake"

IMO you are right, lots of Arabs do hate the state of Israel and I ´wount defend that. May be for reason, may be not - thats a question of opinion. But you wount solve any problem with reckless ways to deal with it in my opinion, unless you favor a "final solution" wich gives any German with a little sense for history a quite bad taste...

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Not sure what you are talking about here. Embassies in Jerusalem, just like settlements, have no impact on the ability of the parties to negotiate an equitable solution that allows the Palestinians a viable independent state and sovereignty and freedom.

Which therefore means that opposition to them, particularly the embassies as they would have no real impact on anything, must be driven by something else. And as the Jordanians and the Palestinians have been quick to point out, that "something else" is the manifestation of the racism that the Arab world has to Jews and their "dirty feet" being acknowledged as in control of territory they believe must be Muslim. And the fact that the world is prepared to pretend that Israel's government is not in Jerusalem and has not been there since the 1940s in order to avoid the violence that is expected to emanate from the Arab world like a bunch of automatons on autopilot is simply inexcusable, and would be in any other context.

This is no different than saying we won't sell short skirts because men can't control their urges and if you wear a short skirt don't be surprised at what happens, or no blacks allowed because that would trigger violence by white racists.

And at some point the Palestinians need to be made clear the consequences of their unwillingness to make peace with the Jews. IMO kowtowing to their "sensitivities" and refusing to make them make the tough decisions or face consequences is one of the core reasons we are no closer to a Palestinian population willing to reconcile with the Jews (and therefore no closer to a Palestinian state) than we were 30 years ago.

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

CJ 2.0 said:

Yeah, none of that is really true, is it?

A nation's capital is where it sets up its government. If a nation decides to move its seat of government from one place to another (e.g., from St Petersburg to Moscow), it doesn't need "international recognition" for its capital city to move.

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Again, I am not claiming that Israel cannot move their capitol to where they say it is. Im arguing on the basis of the international community refusal to recognize Jerusalem as the capitol of Israel undermines the legitimacy of the claimed capital in the international arena.

Incidentally, it is hard to comprehend the unwillingness of the international community to recognize at least West Jerusalem as Israel's capital as anything other than first and second-order racism (second order being those who are unwilling to take an action because of the racism of others and their expectations about the impact of that racism).

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It has nothing to do with racism and everything to do with a conflict where both states claim Jerusalem as their own.

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

In 1940 there was no Israel and there were less than 100.000 Jews living in the part of the world we are talking about. If I remember correctely ~ 60.000. The Israelis came later inspired from the Zionist movement and driven by the Nazi cruelties from Europe.

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

german hick said:

Would you please explain why? Because the ancient Israelites founded it once?

*thinks of Königsberg/Kaliningrad, Straßburg/Strasbourg and several other places*

If you follow this logic the world will be in permanent war for ever...

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For cultural, economic, political, historical, demographic, and religious reasons.

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

CJ 2.0 said:

Except there was never a state of "Palestine" so it cannot have territory that is occupied. By definition.

What you probably mean to say is that the Palestinians have a right to self determination and independence and as they make up the population in east Jerusalem they have a right to sovereign control of that portion of the city. Which I don't really agree with in respect of Jerusalem, since dividing cities by ethnicity is never really how self determination works, but if you would at least formulate the claim honestly we could avoid along of the mental gymnastics about how the Palestinians have some fictional pre-existing state that has been occupied.

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As you will know the UN partition Plan for Palestine was never endorsed by the UNSC and remained , due to this , just a recommendation .

Subsequent events , involving armed conflict , saw the establishment of the state of Israel by the Jewish people . If we are to recognize this area as the legitimate state of Israel , in an area that accounted for around 25% of the territory given to the Palestinian state, we are obliged imo to recognize that the 20% it failed to conquer should likewise constitute the legitimate Palestinian state. Even if it only survived because of the military actions of other Arab states.

The advent of the 4th Geneva Convention sealed in the situation concerning acquiring land through warfare , hence we see , more or less , the entire world supporting the establishment , finally , of the Palestinian state based on the green line border. With full and authentic self determination for the Palestinian people. I think that that is the correct and the most morally acceptable way to see the situation. You can differ if you want to , no problem

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

Sherman123 said:

For cultural, economic, political, historical, demographic, and religious reasons.

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ah, reasons... okay thats such a conclusive argumentation that I don´t have a question anymore...

Re: Senators Threaten to Cut Embassy Security If US Doesn’t Move Its Embassy to Jerus

german hick said:

ah, reasons... okay thats such a conclusive argumentation that I don´t have a question anymore...

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What he neglected to mention was that the Palestinians could , just as easily , make the same arguments