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U.S. Abstains as U.N. Security Council Votes to Condemn Israeli Settlements

justabubba said:
i believe this forecasts the UN's inclination to soon recognize the sovereign nation of Palestine; to complete and fulfill the Palestine Mandate, which obligation was passed from the League of Nations to the UN
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That is entirely contingent on a US administration willing to countenance that. I cant predict the future so it's entirely possible that this will happen, but this resolution seems like shaky ground for hoping for that.
 
Sherman123 said:
That is entirely contingent on a US administration willing to countenance that. I cant predict the future so it's entirely possible that this will happen, but this resolution seems like shaky ground for hoping for that.
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the people of israel should understand what this UN resolution says about their government's practices of building settlements in the lands of another people
 
justabubba said:
the people of israel should understand what this UN resolution says about their government's practices of building settlements in the lands of another people
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The people of Israel are far too familiar with what the UN is about.
 
Sherman123 said:
What? I don't understand your post.
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You want East Jerusalem to be handed over to Palestinians. Why do you think they will allow Jews to pray there? Not that you would care.
 
justabubba said:
the people of israel should understand what this UN resolution says about their government's practices of building settlements in the lands of another people
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I guess the UN/Obama and the rest of the world have forgotten previous resolutions 242 and 338.
 
The Israelis have much more economic and military power than the Palestinians. They're using that power to squeeze the Palestinians and steadily but surely take the relatively limited land they have remaining, in addition to strangling them economically and also killing many of them, including many children. This appears to be driven by what I would characterize as an extremist religious ideology which includes the idea of a "promised land".

The Palestinians are naturally fighting back using the limited means at their disposal. The rest of the world sees the situation without the pro-Israeli bias of the US media, and disapproves of what the Israelis are doing. Hence the 14-0 vote on this UN resolution condemning Israel's behavior. The histrionic response of Netanyahu reveals his extremism, and his blindness to the possibility that Israel's actions are unreasonable, in the eyes of reasonable people around the world who understand what fairness means.

Until Israel changes its attitude and compromises by conceding a fair quantity of quality land to the Palestinians, I can only see the violence continuing, and possibly even escalating, which will be to the detriment of all parties.
 
bubbabgone said:
Thought are that the mask is off.
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If a 2 State ever arrives, the Israelis will and want total economic control and Palestinian dependency upon Israel.
Land swaps are difficult but can be done. It would entail some settlement’s being closed. That is an Israeli nightmare based upon previous closures of settlements.

Having Israeli control of goods crossing from /to Jordan I agree with. A clear-cut security measure.

The other sticking point, major one is the capital. Both claim Jerusalem.
UN partition map
View attachment 67211635
 
Sherman123 said:
Anyone who thinks this resolution changes the trajectory or narrative of the conflict is an ideologue with way too much emotional skin exposed to be thinking clearly.
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Jews praying in "occupied terrority" is a change only if one is not thinking clearly??
 
justabubba said:
the people of israel should understand what this UN resolution says about their government's practices of building settlements in the lands of another people
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The people of Israel are more than aware of the controversy regarding the settlements. Trust me.
 
washunut said:
You want East Jerusalem to be handed over to Palestinians. Why do you think they will allow Jews to pray there? Not that you would care.
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I never said that? I support the annexation of most of Jerusalem and significant portions of the West Bank abutting the Green Line. My family is Israel and several of them live in what many would call settlements.
 
Sherman123 said:
Huh? What are you trying to say?
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The resolution you love considers east Jerusalem including the Western Wall as occupied territory. No longer does there have to be a trade of land for peace per Obama and you. The land issue has been resolved by this resolution.
 
Sherman123 said:
I never said that? I support the annexation of most of Jerusalem and significant portions of the West Bank abutting the Green Line. My family is Israel and several of them live in what many would call settlements.
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You sound like Bernie Sanders reminding people in NY that his parents were Polish. Not sure either his parents or the Polish considered them that.
 
washunut said:
The resolution you love considers east Jerusalem including the Western Wall as occupied territory. No longer does there have to be a trade of land for peace per Obama and you. The land issue has been resolved by this resolution.
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Where did I ever say I support the resolution?
 
justabubba said:
i believe this forecasts the UN's inclination to soon recognize the sovereign nation of Palestine; to complete and fulfill the Palestine Mandate, which obligation was passed from the League of Nations to the UN
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You mean the mandate where the entire area was set aside for a Jewish national home and to facilitate close Jewish settlement of the land?

That mandate?

I have to admit you have me a bit confused...
 
CJ 2.0 said:
You mean the mandate where the entire area was set aside for a Jewish national home and to facilitate close Jewish settlement of the land?

That mandate?

I have to admit you have me a bit confused...
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AFAIK the Mandate never contained anything akin to giving " the entire area of Palestine " for the Jewish homeland. It just reconfirmed that a Jewish state should be created there and put the British in control of that decision.

The British Peel Plan clearly indicates that the British never saw the whole of mandate Palestine as the area to be ceded for a Jewish state as is obvious from the map below

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/PeelMap.png
 
oneworld2 said:
AFAIK the Mandate never contained anything akin to giving " the entire area of Palestine " for the Jewish homeland. It just reconfirmed that a Jewish state should be created there and put the British in control of that decision.

The British Peel Plan clearly indicates that the British never saw the whole of mandate Palestine as the area to be ceded for a Jewish state as is obvious from the map below

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/aa/PeelMap.png
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The British in the 30s were already violating the mandate. They controlled the territory pursuant to a mandate that was intended to facilitate close settlement of the land by Jews. That actually did mean all.

That the British violated it and ensured that millions of Jews had no escape from Europe is precisely the reason why us Jews are done relying on the goodwill of others to protect us. Cause as with the US "guarantees" of security and territorial integrity to the Ukraine, the British were fully prepared to violate their obligations for their own geopolitical benefit. That millions of Jews were murdered as a result didn't (and clearly still doesn't) bother them in the least.
 
CJ 2.0 said:
The British in the 30s were already violating the mandate. They controlled the territory pursuant to a mandate that was intended to facilitate close settlement of the land by Jews. That actually did mean all.

That the British violated it and ensured that millions of Jews had no escape from Europe is precisely the reason why us Jews are done relying on the goodwill of others to protect us. Cause as with the US "guarantees" of security and territorial integrity to the Ukraine, the British were fully prepared to violate their obligations for their own geopolitical benefit. That millions of Jews were murdered as a result didn't (and clearly still doesn't) bother them in the least.
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The British violated many agreements concerning Palestine/Arabs/Jews for their own colonialist interests but that has nothing to do with your original claim

Where can we see that the " entire area of mandate Palestine " was ceded for the Jewish state anywhere ?
 
CJ 2.0 said:
That the British violated it and ensured that millions of Jews had no escape from Europe is precisely the reason why us Jews are done relying on the goodwill of others to protect us. Cause as with the US "guarantees" of security and territorial integrity to the Ukraine, the British were fully prepared to violate their obligations for their own geopolitical benefit. That millions of Jews were murdered as a result didn't (and clearly still doesn't) bother them in the least.
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Moving forward to today's world, are Jews generally unsafe outside Israel? In Canada? The US? With animosity aroused by Israel and its actions, Israel hardly looks like a safe haven for Jews ...
 
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