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US: Israel broke its word on new settlements

justabubba

justabubba

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US: Israel broke its word on new settlements - CNNPolitics.com

The United States issued an unusually strong rebuke Wednesday of Israel's plan to build new housing tracts in the West Bank.White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest called the announced construction a setback to peace in the region and suggested the Israeli government had broken its word.
"We did receive public assurances from the Israeli government that contradict this announcement," he said. "I guess when we're talking about how good friends treat one another, that's a source of serious concern as well." ...
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israel is trying to pretend this is not a new settlement

another instance where we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
 
justabubba said:
US: Israel broke its word on new settlements - CNNPolitics.com



israel is trying to pretend this is not a new settlement

another instance where we are negotiating about dividing a pizza and in the meantime israel is eating it
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Until the palistinean side is ready to give up on and denounce terrorism, I cannot blame or crtiticize Israel for expanding settlements. The palistinean terrorist groups fire rockets into Israel on a daily basis and attempt to tunnel into Israel to carry out terrorism. In the past, Israel as torn down settlements and given disputed lands back to the palistineans and they answer by simply using those lands to move their rocket launchers that much closer to the heart of Israel.
 
Both sides need to take blame on what happens in the region. Its not as simple as saying Israel is right all the time, or Palestine is right all the time. Sadly, that's what most people do.
 
Israel almost always breaks its word.. nothing new there.
 
A) Israel has not broken its word, this is a planned expansion of an already existing settlement (98 homes within Shiloh) and not a new settlement. B) This specific expansion comes to offer a solution for those who will be evicted from the Amona illegal outpost that is set to be razed by Israel due to the decision of the Supreme Court. C) As told to Kerry by Netanyahu this plan isn't even likely to be executed as other solutions for those evicted from Amona are sought after.

Additionally expansions such as these always exist and will continue to exist as long as there is no solution to the conflict. As long as settlers live in settlements they will need more homes for their children, it's called natural growth, and thus homes will continue to be built all the time. This is not "new settlements". Israel will not simply withdraw from the West Bank without a solution to the conflict, it already has done so with Gaza and received only more threats to its security from the Palestinian terrorists that run things over there, no reason to believe it'd be any different in the West Bank. Any solution will also need to have the Palestinians recognize some settlements are going to remain in Israel's control due to the many years they have been under Israeli control and their massive development in return for lands from Israel south of the West Bank. They will also need to recognize that some Jews will stay and live in their homes while the land on which they exist will become part of a Palestinian state, just like many Arab citizens of the region became Israeli after the establishment of the Israeli state.

Finally the biggest obstacle to peace is clearly not the houses built within existing settlements but the refusal of the Palestinians to even engage in negotiations for peace since April 2014 and the fact that there is no real Palestinian leadership due to Hamas' control of Gaza and its influence within the West Bank as well.
 
RetiredUSN said:
Only you could ignore the terrorist ties within the PA, PLO, and Hamas, while crapping on the Israelis.
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This is about Israel breaking their word.. not PA, PLA or Hamas.
 
PeteEU said:
This is about Israel breaking their word.. not PA, PLA or Hamas.
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Anyone knows that the game changes and has a new optimum strategy, when one party breaks the rules with impunity. When this happens in the real world, the rules and agreements that were installed before or as an attempt to govern behavior loose their legitimacy. This is in part the problem with the UN or the Human Rights Charter or the Geneva Conventions.
 
joG said:
Anyone knows that the game changes and has a new optimum strategy, when one party breaks the rules with impunity. When this happens in the real world, the rules and agreements that were installed before or as an attempt to govern behavior loose their legitimacy. This is in part the problem with the UN or the Human Rights Charter or the Geneva Conventions.
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Wait what.. you are against human rights and the Geneva Convention?
 
PeteEU said:
Wait what.. you are against human rights and the Geneva Convention?
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They were conceived for a quite different world and were not designed to govern behavior under the situation as it is now and even less as it is and will continue to develop in the next years. I believe they urgently need considerable work and a completely other structure and method of enforcement. As they are, they can arguably under certain circumstances do more damage than they can prevent.
 
joG said:
They were conceived for a quite different world and were not designed to govern behavior under the situation as it is now and even less as it is and will continue to develop in the next years. I believe they urgently need considerable work and a completely other structure and method of enforcement. As they are, they can arguably under certain circumstances do more damage than they can prevent.
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Ahh method of enforcement... in other words you want to be constantly at war.. got it.

Guess we have to invade the US so they live up to the Geneva Convention and human rights.. right? Or is it just "muslim" countries and countries you dont like?

How about some specifics you want to change...
 
PeteEU said:
Guess we have to invade the US so they live up to the Geneva Convention and human rights.. right?
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:lamo
Give it a shot.


PeteEU said:
Or is it just "muslim" countries and countries you dont like?

How about some specifics you want to change...
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Do you really think Islam is compatible with western culture/thought?
 
Excon said:
:lamo
Give it a shot.
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I expect that the US military do the invading, since the US politicians are breaking human rights.

Do you really think Islam is compatible with western culture/thought?
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Nope not at all. I also dont think Christianity is compatible with western culture or thought. Hell any religion.
 
PeteEU said:
Ahh method of enforcement... in other words you want to be constantly at war.. got it.

Guess we have to invade the US so they live up to the Geneva Convention and human rights.. right? Or is it just "muslim" countries and countries you dont like?

How about some specifics you want to change...
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Why don't you do your homework. This topic was on the table 10 to 15 years ago and has been discussed here a number of times. True, it does require reading in a number of disciplines to get a firm grasp of it. But if you were interested, you would have gone back and read the discussions in the internationally interested journals, when I mentioned the best places to start to you. Instead you just go on pontificating and being childishly insulting. That has been a major problem of the EU that you so favor. Nobody wanted to be honest about the fact, where they stood against the ideology. So the system they build has hurt millions of Europeans in the harshest way and done so intentionally. It is really very sad.
 
joG said:
Why don't you do your homework. This topic was on the table 10 to 15 years ago and has been discussed here a number of times. True, it does require reading in a number of disciplines to get a firm grasp of it. But if you were interested, you would have gone back and read the discussions in the internationally interested journals, when I mentioned the best places to start to you. Instead you just go on pontificating and being childishly insulting. That has been a major problem of the EU that you so favor. Nobody wanted to be honest about the fact, where they stood against the ideology. So the system they build has hurt millions of Europeans in the harshest way and done so intentionally. It is really very sad.
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Evading as usual.. I asked YOUR opinion and specifics... and you go on a Donald Trump rambling as usual.
 
PeteEU said:
I expect that the US military do the invading, since the US politicians are breaking human rights.
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1. No.
2. No.
3. :lamo



PeteEU said:
Nope not at all. I also dont think Christianity is compatible with western culture or thought. Hell any religion.
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Big difference between the two.
Christianity has changed to allow selective practice which does make it compatible with western culture/thought.
Islam has strict adherence to the Prophet as contained in the Quran.

You either submit and strictly follow the Quran, or you are not a muslim.
 
PeteEU said:
Evading as usual.. I asked YOUR opinion and specifics... and you go on a Donald Trump rambling as usual.
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Not at all. I pointed out to you, where you could spend your next month or so reading up on a very significant international discussion by policy professionals and academics from around the world that you seem to have missed. But you are right that I am not going to try to give you a short briefing again, as the last times I did so, you did not accept it nor did you read the literature. It has proven a waste of time.
 
Excon said:
1. No.
2. No.
3. :lamo
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Well then you cant go around critizing other countries for human rights abuses plus demand that we "do something about it"

Big difference between the two.
Christianity has changed to allow selective practice which does make it compatible with western culture/thought.
Islam has strict adherence to the Prophet as contained in the Quran.

You either submit and strictly follow the Quran, or you are not a muslim.
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horse****. I know many Muslims that drink alcohol for example.

Also we in the west threw out Christianity as the dominant political force and became secular. That is the difference. Christianity has not changed.. if it got its way, it would look very similar to Islam today.
 
PeteEU said:
Well then you cant go around critizing other countries for human rights abuses plus demand that we "do something about it"
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When those claims against the US are false, the **** we can't.
And even "IF" we had some which are not a severe violations as the others, yeah we can also do it under those circumstances too. What should not be happening is those with far greater substantiated violations pointing the finger at us over minor or unsubstantiated violations.

But like I already said, as they are written everybody should be against human rights and the Geneva Convention.


PeteEU said:
horse****. I know many Muslims that drink alcohol for example.
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And I have known Islamists who believe the proscription only applied in Saudi Arabia. And?
This is not the fundamental tenets of Islam that was being spoken about.
There are no dogmatic differences between the two major sects which have the vast majority of followers. The Quran must be adhered to, which means all the bad that has not been abrogated must also be adhered to.


PeteEU said:
Also we in the west threw out Christianity as the dominant political force and became secular. That is the difference. Christianity has not changed.. if it got its way, it would look very similar to Islam today.
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No. It was not thrown out. The way Christianity is practiced has changed, tha tis all.
That change brought about a process of attrition in which the west has drifted away from Christianity.
Which is still very much different than islam and the way it is practiced.
But you already admitted it is incompatible with the west so you should understand why some folks are against islam in general and oppose it's follows coming here and adding to a block of folks who's beliefs and practices are incompatible.
 
Excon said:
When those claims against the US are false, the **** we can't.
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Most are not false.

And even "IF" we had some which are not a severe violations as the others, yeah we can also do it under those circumstances too. What should not be happening is those with far greater substantiated violations pointing the finger at us over minor or unsubstantiated violations.
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Oh wait, now it is only the severity of the violations that county, not the violation it self?

And I have known Islamists who believe the proscription only applied in Saudi Arabia. And?
This is not the fundamental tenets of Islam that was being spoken about.
There are no dogmatic differences between the two major sects which have the vast majority of followers. The Quran must be adhered to, which means all the bad that has not been abrogated must also be adhered to.
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As is the Bible.

No. It was not thrown out. The way Christianity is practiced has changed, tha tis all.
That change brought about a process of attrition in which the west has drifted away from Christianity.
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Yes, the west rejected Christian dogma and went on its own. Christianity has NOT changed, we in the west just ignore it.

Which is still very much different than islam and the way it is practiced.
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Not really. In Turkey there are 10s of millions who are Muslim but dont practice all of Islamic dogma. Hell in every single Muslim country there are differences. Female genital mutilation is "popular" in the horn of Africa up to parts of Egypt. It is directly against Islam. Suicide is against Islam, and yet we have suicide bombers.

But you already admitted it is incompatible with the west so you should understand why some folks are against islam in general and oppose it's follows coming here and adding to a block of folks who's beliefs and practices are incompatible.
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All I have said, is that religious dogma of any religion is incompatible with western society.. For example, on the basic principle of equality, both the Koran and Bible are not exactly on the same page as a modern western society. Or criminal law.. the bible states that homosexuals have to be killed,... Christians are obligated to follow this practice.. but western society does not like that, so it is banned.
 
PeteEU said:
Most are not false.
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No. Most claims are false. As evidenced by their being disputable.


PeteEU said:
Oh wait, now it is only the severity of the violations that county, not the violation it self?
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Wait wut? You seem confused. You do know what we are talking about right?
I don't have a problem with it.


PeteEU said:
As is the Bible.
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iLOL No. The beliefs are totally separate and are not like each other.
Nor does the bible incorporate abrogation.


PeteEU said:
Yes, the west rejected Christian dogma and went on its own. Christianity has NOT changed, we in the west just ignore it.
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Are you purposely not replying to what was said? Or are you just confused?
What did you not understand about the practice changing? Or how that change brought about a process of attrition in which the west has drifted away from Christianity?


PeteEU said:
Not really. In Turkey there are 10s of millions who are Muslim but dont practice all of Islamic dogma. Hell in every single Muslim country there are differences. Female genital mutilation is "popular" in the horn of Africa up to parts of Egypt. It is directly against Islam. Suicide is against Islam, and yet we have suicide bombers.
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Yes Pete really. And you bringing up irrelevancies to that is well irrelevant.
You seem not to understand that only the Quran is being spoken about. Not anything else.
The two major sects, which have the vast majority of followers, differences are "more of a political nature than creed. There are no dogmatic differences between the two sects."


PeteEU said:
All I have said, is that religious dogma of any religion is incompatible with western society.. For example, on the basic principle of equality, both the Koran and Bible are not exactly on the same page as a modern western society. Or criminal law.. the bible states that homosexuals have to be killed,... Christians are obligated to follow this practice.. but western society does not like that, so it is banned.
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And you are wrong within the context of what was being spoken about.
The practice of Christianity has changed and is compatible with the west. Islam is not.
 
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