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Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine[W:42]

TheDemSocialist

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Greece is set to recognise the state of Palestine in a parliamentary vote to be attended by the Palestinian president, Mahmoud Abbas, a government source said.A solemn ceremony will accompany the vote on Tuesday as Greece joins dozens of other countries that accord recognition to Palestine, the source told the AFP news agency.
Abbas arrived for a two-day visit in Athens and is meeting President Prokopis Pavlopoulos and Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras, the Associated Press reported.
Last week, the Greek parliament's foreign affairs committee unanimously approved a motion to recognise Palestine.
Tsipras travelled to Israel last month when he met with both Abbas and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.


Read more @: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Looks like Greece will be the next European country to officially recognize the State of Palestine :applaud:applaud
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

............achieving what?
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

............achieving what?

More pressure on the state of Israel, international pressure to recognize Palestine, etc.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

More pressure on the state of Israel, international pressure to recognize Palestine, etc.

:shrug: that might work. Once you've recognized a state, an attack by that state against you is Causus Belli according to international law, and you can invade, take their property, and forcibly deport their populace.



Palestinians may want to be careful what they wish for.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

More pressure on the state of Israel, international pressure to recognize Palestine, etc.
ah, but to dream, eh?:mrgreen:

Meanwhile let me assure you that Israel ain't worried.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

If I understand the story correctly, we are talking about a nonbinding symbolic gesture. I do not think Greece can have full government recognition of Palestine as a State given the current disposition of their relations with Israel. That might need additional clarification as sources are not all saying the same thing about this one.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Looks like Greece will be the next European country to officially recognize the State of Palestine :applaud:applaud[/FONT][/COLOR]

Now, if we could just get the Palestinians to recognize the right of Israel to exist as well, we'd be on the road to peace.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Now, if we could just get the Palestinians to recognize the right of Israel to exist as well, we'd be on the road to peace.

How many more times must the PLO recognize Israel?
"On September 9, 1993, Chairman Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin, in which he stated unequivocally that the PLO: Recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security"
Israel-Palestinian Negotiations

"After a two-day meeting with five prominent American Jews here, a P.L.O. delegation led by Mr. Arafat said in a joint statement that the Palestinian parliament in exile last month had ''accepted the existence of Israel as a state in the region''
ARAFAT SAYS P.L.O. ACCEPTED ISRAEL - NYTimes.com

""The government would be under my command and my policy," Abbas told senior leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) at his presidential headquarters in the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah. Its purview will be what happens domestically. I recognize Israel and it would recognize Israel"
Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Reuters

"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday said that the Palestinian people recognize Israel's right to exist and they hope the Israeli government will respond by "recognizing the Palestinian state on the borders of the land occupied in 1967." The PA president's comments came in a speech to the Dutch parliament in the Hague."
'We recognize Israel, they should recognize Palestine' - Diplomacy & Politics - Jerusalem Post
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

:shrug: that might work. Once you've recognized a state, an attack by that state against you is Causus Belli according to international law, and you can invade, take their property, and forcibly deport their populace.

They've been invaded, their property has not only been taken, but destroyed, and a large portion of their populace already has no right of return.
So, when you put it that way, what do they have to lose.;)
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Wow.

A failed state recognizing a cartoon state.

Big happenings!
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

How many more times must the PLO recognize Israel?

You'd save yourself a lot of time if you were to actually read what he was saying.
He said "recognize Israel's right to exist", not "recognize Israel".
The PA recognizes that Israel exists (even though its officials keep threatening to withdraw such recognition), what it doesn't recognize is its right to exist.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

They've been invaded, their property has not only been taken, but destroyed, and a large portion of their populace already has no right of return.
So, when you put it that way, what do they have to lose.;)

You mean they have invaded, and lost.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

You'd save yourself a lot of time if you were to actually read what he was saying.
He said "recognize Israel's right to exist", not "recognize Israel".
The PA recognizes that Israel exists (even though its officials keep threatening to withdraw such recognition), what it doesn't recognize is its right to exist.

It would also help if you actually read what I posted because they did "recognize Israel's right to exist".... So I guess I'll just repost what I already posted...

"On September 9, 1993, Chairman Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin, in which he stated unequivocally that the PLO: Recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security"
Israel-Palestinian Negotiations

""After a two-day meeting with five prominent American Jews here, a P.L.O. delegation led by Mr. Arafat said in a joint statement that the Palestinian parliament in exile last month had ''accepted the existence of Israel as a state in the region'' ARAFAT SAYS P.L.O. ACCEPTED ISRAEL - NYTimes.com

""Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday said that the Palestinian people recognize Israel's right to exist and they hope the Israeli government will respond by "recognizing the Palestinian state on the borders of the land occupied in 1967." The PA president's comments came in a speech to the Dutch parliament in the Hague."
'We recognize Israel, they should recognize Palestine' - Diplomacy & Politics - Jerusalem Post
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

It would also help if you actually read what I posted because they did "recognize Israel's right to exist".... So I guess I'll just repost what I already posted...

"On September 9, 1993, Chairman Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin, in which he stated unequivocally that the PLO: Recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security"
Israel-Palestinian Negotiations

""After a two-day meeting with five prominent American Jews here, a P.L.O. delegation led by Mr. Arafat said in a joint statement that the Palestinian parliament in exile last month had ''accepted the existence of Israel as a state in the region'' ARAFAT SAYS P.L.O. ACCEPTED ISRAEL - NYTimes.com

""Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday said that the Palestinian people recognize Israel's right to exist and they hope the Israeli government will respond by "recognizing the Palestinian state on the borders of the land occupied in 1967." The PA president's comments came in a speech to the Dutch parliament in the Hague."
'We recognize Israel, they should recognize Palestine' - Diplomacy & Politics - Jerusalem Post

The current administration of the PA doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist as it constantly pushes its claim that Israel must accept over 4 million Palestinians into the state of Israel in what they call the Palestinian 'right of return' meaning its destruction. They also work to deligitimize Israel's right to exist through international platforms. Abbas had also repeatedly refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state fearing that such recognition would mean an end to Palestinian claims over the territory of modern Israel.

I will also point out the fact that Abbas had considered several times the territory of the state of Israel as "Palestinian occupied territory", he even said that Israel occupies Palestinian territories for more than 67 years now:

 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

How many more times must the PLO recognize Israel?
"On September 9, 1993, Chairman Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin, in which he stated unequivocally that the PLO: Recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security"
Israel-Palestinian Negotiations

"After a two-day meeting with five prominent American Jews here, a P.L.O. delegation led by Mr. Arafat said in a joint statement that the Palestinian parliament in exile last month had ''accepted the existence of Israel as a state in the region''
ARAFAT SAYS P.L.O. ACCEPTED ISRAEL - NYTimes.com

""The government would be under my command and my policy," Abbas told senior leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) at his presidential headquarters in the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah. Its purview will be what happens domestically. I recognize Israel and it would recognize Israel"
Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Reuters

"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday said that the Palestinian people recognize Israel's right to exist and they hope the Israeli government will respond by "recognizing the Palestinian state on the borders of the land occupied in 1967." The PA president's comments came in a speech to the Dutch parliament in the Hague."
'We recognize Israel, they should recognize Palestine' - Diplomacy & Politics - Jerusalem Post

so...... the PLO won that election thingy they had a while back?
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

The current administration of the PA doesn't recognize Israel's right to exist
Yes it does. See Oslo accords and the Palestinian National Authority President (Abbas) statements I linked earlier...


as it constantly pushes its claim that Israel must accept over 4 million Palestinians into the state of Israel in what they call the Palestinian 'right of return' meaning its destruction.
This is irrelevant

They also work to deligitimize Israel's right to exist through international platforms.
Being seen as equal state actors on international platforms is smoehow a tactic for not recognizing Israel? What BS is this?

Abbas had also repeatedly refused to recognize Israel as a Jewish state fearing that such recognition would mean an end to Palestinian claims over the territory of modern Israel.
So they must recognize Israel again? How many more times? And why the condition of "Jewish state"? And dont you see the problems with the "Jewish state" as a condition now being used as an official recognition (even though PLO has recognized Israel as a state without the condition as recognizing it as "the Jewish state")? This has never been a precondition for Israel before 2007 and is being used as a political tool to try to delegitimize Palestinians and their legal actions when it comes to refugee issues, etc. And Israelis cant even define what a "jewish state" means...

"There are a great many difficulties with the "Jewish state" demand, and Netanyahu's formulation "the nation-state of the Jewish people" in particular.

This framing also begs the question about the status of Palestinian citizens of Israel, who already face significant discrimination in many sectors because they are not Jewish. This is one of the reasons the PLO finds the demand so problematic: They will not agree to implicitly endorse the restrictions Palestinian citizens of Israel now face, or may face in the future.

Moreover, Israel itself cannot define what a "Jewish state" means, exactly. There were several attempts in the last Knesset to introduce legislation to clarify the term; all of them failed miserably because while there is a consensus among Jewish Israelis that their state is in some sense "Jewish," there is no consensus whatsoever as to what that entails. So, in effect, Palestinians are being asked to agree to something that even the Israelis cannot define with any degree of specificity.

The "Jewish state" demand was first introduced in 2007 at the Annapolis meeting, never having been mentioned in previous Israeli negotiations with the Palestinians, let alone with Egypt or Jordan. It was dismissed by not just the Palestinian delegation, but also the American one, both recognizing it as an attempted end-run around the final status issue of Palestinian refugees. The matter was accordingly dropped.

Many commentators have long understood that Netanyahu has made this such a focus of his policy for two clear reasons. The first is to put his own stamp on a process that had been defined before he came to power. The second is to continue the attempt to defuse the refugee issue, particularly as a quid pro quo for Israeli compromises on Jerusalem.

So, this new demand solves the problem that one side is lived up to its core commitment under a two-state solution – recognizing the statehood of the other party – while the other side has not. It pushes the diplomatic, psychological, and political clock back before 1993, to an era where Palestinians are once again being asked to demonstrate their willingness to live in peace with Israel by uttering some magic mantra.

But the truth remains that one party, the Palestinians, has recognized the independent statehood of the other, Israel. And Israel has never recognized an independent Palestine or the Palestinian right to an independent state. There are, apparently, still many things the Palestinians must do to "earn" such a right, if they are ever to have it at all, and that includes some sort of recognition of Israel as a "Jewish state."

Until they do that, Israel and its hard-core supporters will bat aside the fact that Palestinians have actually recognized Israel, unrequited, since 1993, and speak and act as if that were irrelevant and the Palestinians haven't recognized Israel at all until they repeat the novel catechism now being placed before them."
read more: How Many Times Must the Palestinians Recognize Israel? - Opinion - Haaretz - Israeli News Source Haaretz.com

will also point out the fact that Abbas had considered several times the territory of the state of Israel as "Palestinian occupied territory", he even said that Israel occupies Palestinian territories for more than 67 years now:


No where did he say there all of Israeli territory is occupied..
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

so...... the PLO won that election thingy they had a while back?

Irrelevant to the recognition of Israel of a state that has a right to exist....
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Irrelevant to the recognition of Israel of a state that has a right to exist....

YOU were the one who claimed that the Palestinians recognized Israel. It's rather germane whether or not the people you are citing are the actual duly elected government of Palestine. ;)
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

YOU were the one who claimed that the Palestinians recognized Israel. It's rather germane whether or not the people you are citing are the actual duly elected government of Palestine. ;)
Bah, an annoying detail. Let's not get petty, eh? ;)
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

How many more times must the PLO recognize Israel?
"On September 9, 1993, Chairman Arafat sent a letter to Prime Minister Rabin, in which he stated unequivocally that the PLO: Recognizes the right of Israel to exist in peace and security"
Israel-Palestinian Negotiations

"After a two-day meeting with five prominent American Jews here, a P.L.O. delegation led by Mr. Arafat said in a joint statement that the Palestinian parliament in exile last month had ''accepted the existence of Israel as a state in the region''
ARAFAT SAYS P.L.O. ACCEPTED ISRAEL - NYTimes.com

""The government would be under my command and my policy," Abbas told senior leaders of the Palestine Liberation Organisation (PLO) at his presidential headquarters in the occupied West Bank city of Ramallah. Its purview will be what happens domestically. I recognize Israel and it would recognize Israel"
Palestinian unity government will recognize Israel: Abbas | Reuters

"Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas on Thursday said that the Palestinian people recognize Israel's right to exist and they hope the Israeli government will respond by "recognizing the Palestinian state on the borders of the land occupied in 1967." The PA president's comments came in a speech to the Dutch parliament in the Hague."
'We recognize Israel, they should recognize Palestine' - Diplomacy & Politics - Jerusalem Post

Superficially, that sounds promising but Hamas, who ran Gaza until 2014 and still holds dominance does not recognize Israel's right to exist - and, in fact - its Charter reflects that sentiment.

Abbas, while more moderate, is mainly influential in the West Bank. Israel doesn't have a lot of trouble with the West Bank. Most of the trouble comes from Gaza. The Unity Government is anything but "united."

The only way to lasting peace is for Palestinians (whether they are a state or not) to accept the borders that now exist and quit lobbing rockets into Israel. I applaud what Abbas has done in the West Bank, but he has to remember, if he accepts statehood, it will be limited to the current borders. There can be no removal of the buffer zones.

I'm all for Palestinian statehood. That will force them to be held to the same standards Israel is held to.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Yes it does. See Oslo accords and the Palestinian National Authority President (Abbas) statements I linked earlier...

This is irrelevant

He's saying that he recognizes Israel's right to exist but practically he does no such thing when he works to deligitimize Israel and promotes the Palestinian 'right of return'. It is relevant because it is a demonstration of working towards the destruction of Israel, in this case through demographic change.

Being seen as equal state actors on international platforms is smoehow a tactic for not recognizing Israel? What BS is this?

That's hardly what I said.

So they must recognize Israel again? How many more times? And why the condition of "Jewish state"? And dont you see the problems with the "Jewish state" as a condition now being used as an official recognition (even though PLO has recognized Israel as a state without the condition as recognizing it as "the Jewish state")? This has never been a precondition for Israel before 2007 and is being used as a political tool to try to delegitimize Palestinians and their legal actions when it comes to refugee issues, etc. And Israelis cant even define what a "jewish state" means...

The international community has recognized Israel as a Jewish state when it was created. What it means for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state is, as I've already explained, an admission that Palestinians have no claim to the territory of the modern state of Israel. (Tel Aviv, Safed, Haifa, etc.) The Palestinians constantly refuse to recognize Israel as such because they don't want to let go of their claims for the state of Israel, the same ones that led to the 1948 war. Why otherwise would they refuse to make such recognition when it exposes their ill intentions so clearly?

"There are a great many difficulties with the "Jewish state" demand, and Netanyahu's formulation "the nation-state of the Jewish people" in particular.

This framing also begs the question about the status of Palestinian citizens of Israel, who already face significant discrimination in many sectors because they are not Jewish. This is one of the reasons the PLO finds the demand so problematic: They will not agree to implicitly endorse the restrictions Palestinian citizens of Israel now face, or may face in the future.

You were already told several times that this argument that if the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state something will change internally in Israel's treatment of its Arab minority is nothing but bollocks so I'm really not going to go into this crazy nonsense again. As if Turkey tomorrow chose to recognize the Netherlands as a Dutch homeland tomorrow non-Dutch minorities will suffer from discrimination, makes no sense whatsoever. It's a pathetic excuse and it's even more pathetic when it is being used after debunked time after time. If you have anything realistic to discuss I'd love to hear it.

Moreover, Israel itself cannot define what a "Jewish state" means, exactly. There were several attempts in the last Knesset to introduce legislation to clarify the term; all of them failed miserably because while there is a consensus among Jewish Israelis that their state is in some sense "Jewish," there is no consensus whatsoever as to what that entails. So, in effect, Palestinians are being asked to agree to something that even the Israelis cannot define with any degree of specificity.

Another nonsensical statement as Israel is defined as a Jewish Democracy in Israel's declaration of independence.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

No where did he say there all of Israeli territory is occupied..

Perhaps you can tell us in the name of Abbas then what the hell was he talking about when he was referring to a 67 years old occupation.
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

He's saying that he recognizes Israel's right to exist
So the current administration of the PA does recognize Israels right to exist thus debunking your claim that they do not in post #14....[QUOTE[but practically he does no such thing when he works to deligitimize Israel and promotes the Palestinian 'right of return'.[/QUOTE]One state recognizes one right to exist while the other (Israel) does not... And its the Palestinians fault? :doh
It is relevant because it is a demonstration of working towards the destruction of Israel, in this case through demographic change.
1.)Vast majority of Palestinian refugees do not with to return to "Israel"
2d28y2c.png
http://www.pcpsr.org/en/node/4932.)Its called international law: "11. Resolves that the refugees wishing to return to their homes and live at peace with their neighbours should be permitted to do so at the earliest practicable date, and that compensation should be paid for the property of those choosing not to return and for loss of or damage to property which, under principles of international law or in equity, should be made good by the Governments or authorities responsible;" A/RES/194 (III) of 11 December 1948 3.)In a more realpolitick evaluations there will most likely be a negotiated deal with certain preconditions on who can return and who cannot.
That's hardly what I said.
Israel was created essentially through international platforms, but then you go and criticize Palestinians use of "international platforms"...
The international community has recognized Israel as a Jewish state when it was created.
What it means for the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state is, as I've already explained, an admission that Palestinians have no claim to the territory of the modern state of Israel. (Tel Aviv, Safed, Haifa, etc.)
What is the "modern state of Israel"? All the land they have now? The land they are continually illegally grabbing/occupying (https://news.vice.com/article/israe...the-west-bank-as-netanyahu-meets-with-obama)? Afterall Jewish Israelis do not agree at all on what the Jewish character of Israel even means...
The Palestinians constantly refuse to recognize Israel as such because they don't want to let go of their claims for the state of Israel, the same ones that led to the 1948 war. Why otherwise would they refuse to make such recognition when it exposes their ill intentions so clearly?
Again they do not claim the whole state of Israel which you seem to be implying here. Move past that talking point. But to answer your loaded question its for many reasons and its not because of the statement you added in the end (which made your question loaded):1.)The reasons already laid out in the article in my post ealier2.)Recognizing Israel as Jewish state would mean renouncing the internationally recognized right of Palestinian refugees to return. 3.)Palestinians fear that recognizing the Jewish nature of Israel means endorsing and making permanent the state's discrimination against its Palestinian citizens.4.)"To recognise Israel as a Jewish state would only give license to further efforts of marginalising or removing this population with the goal of maintaining Jewish majoritarianism.. A magical use of language would not sufficiently wed recognition of a Jewish state with the principle of safeguarding the rights of Palestinian citizens of Israel. Every Palestinian recalls that the 1917 Balfour Declaration, which established London's support for Zionism, noted that "nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine". This did little to prevent the Nakba which followed as Zionism's goal materialised... As the Israeli historian Benny Morris said, "A Jewish state would not have come into being without the uprooting of 700,000 Palestinians. Therefore, it was necessary to uproot them. There was no choice but to expel that population." Legitimising the pursuit of Jewish majoritarianism ad infinitum opens the door to future actions like this." http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/op...-state-demand-non-star-20144814244225761.html
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

You were already told several times that this argument that if the Palestinians recognize Israel as a Jewish state something will change internally in Israel's treatment of its Arab minority is nothing but bollocks
Bull****. And we can look at history for that.... Or even current policies: I mean what about the Law of Return for the Israelis and compare that to the Right of Return for Palestinian refugees? Or how about housing? The open discrimintaory nature of Israel is clear as day right now for Palestinians living in Israel...

"Moreover, Palestinians are concerned that recognizing Israel as a Jewish state might be seen as endorsing discrimination against the Palestinian minority in Israel, which is approximately 20 percent of the population. They point out that Jewish Israelis do not agree at all on what the Jewish character of Israel means. Important sections of Israeli law, life, and society are structured in a discriminatory manner based on "nationality" (i.e., "Jewish," "Arab," and scores of other classifications made by the state) as opposed to citizenship. This discrimination applies to housing, education, military service and its many benefits, access to publicly owned lands and other important aspects of social and economic life. Palestinians are understandably uncomfortable with anything that might smack of acquiescence to these structures of discrimination that permeate Israeli society in favor of those classified by the state as "Jewish." Should the Palestinians Recognize Israel as a Jewish State? | Foreign Policy


so I'm really not going to go into this crazy nonsense again. As if Turkey tomorrow chose to recognize the Netherlands as a Dutch homeland tomorrow non-Dutch minorities will suffer from discrimination, makes no sense whatsoever. It's a pathetic excuse and it's even more pathetic when it is being used after debunked time after time. If you have anything realistic to discuss I'd love to hear it.
Well saying Arab Israelis and Palestinian Israelis already face open discrimination......
 
Re: Greece moves to recognise the state of Palestine

Perhaps you can tell us in the name of Abbas then what the hell was he talking about when he was referring to a 67 years old occupation.

Sure.
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