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Violence flares up between Israelis and Palestinians

Anomalism

Anomalism

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Violence flares up between Israelis and Palestinians - Al Jazeera English

An Israeli student has been stabbed and critically wounded in Jerusalem and another person stabbed in Tel Aviv as tensions between Israelis and Palestinians continue to rise. The 25-year-old Yeshiva student was stabbed in his upper body at Ammunition Hill in occupied East Jerusalem on Thursday, in the fourth such incident to take place in a 24-hour period, according to local media reports.
 
Yet another biased title from perhaps the most strongly anti-Israeli biased mainstream news outlet, al-Jazeera.
No, violence between Israelis and Palestinians doesn't flare up. This is another wave of terrorism by Palestinians against innocent Israeli Jews.
 
Anomalism said:
Violence flares up between Israelis and Palestinians - Al Jazeera English

An Israeli student has been stabbed and critically wounded in Jerusalem and another person stabbed in Tel Aviv as tensions between Israelis and Palestinians continue to rise. The 25-year-old Yeshiva student was stabbed in his upper body at Ammunition Hill in occupied East Jerusalem on Thursday, in the fourth such incident to take place in a 24-hour period, according to local media reports.
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It is the usual flaming up that Hamas instigates now and then for reasons of their own.
 
Ill be laughing all the way to hell when Israel begins to take more territory. And if the palestinians cry, Ill laugh harder.
 
Mehhh...

If some idiot illegally squatted on my lawn I'd prolly stab him too.
 
Luftwaffe said:
Ill be laughing all the way to hell when Israel begins to take more territory. And if the palestinians cry, Ill laugh harder.
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Yes, because thise 70+ year old conflict with both sides twisting the knife certainly is funny.

You going to laugh when those land grabs encourage more bombings in Israel?
 
Anomalism said:
Violence flares up between Israelis and Palestinians - Al Jazeera English

An Israeli student has been stabbed and critically wounded in Jerusalem and another person stabbed in Tel Aviv as tensions between Israelis and Palestinians continue to rise. The 25-year-old Yeshiva student was stabbed in his upper body at Ammunition Hill in occupied East Jerusalem on Thursday, in the fourth such incident to take place in a 24-hour period, according to local media reports.
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"Violence flares up between Israelis and Palestinians"... I was not aware things had calmed down, and suspect otherwise.
 
Ikari said:
Yes, because thise 70+ year old conflict with both sides twisting the knife certainly is funny.

You going to laugh when those land grabs encourage more bombings in Israel?
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Not really, Im mainly going to be apathetic about it.

Bigger things to focus on, domestic things.
 
soot said:
Mehhh...

If some idiot illegally squatted on my lawn I'd prolly stab him too.
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So the young women in kiryat gat and tel aviv, the men in petach tikva and afula, they are all idiot thieves? I understand that according to your perception I deserve to be stabbed just because I'm a Jew who lives in Israel, and apperantly I'm also a thief
 
ido_ said:
So the young women in kiryat gat and tel aviv, the men in petach tikva and afula, they are all idiot thieves? I understand that according to your perception I deserve to be stabbed just because I'm a Jew who lives in Israel, and apperantly I'm also a thief
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Let me get you straight.

Because I don't agree with everything Israel does, it logically follows that I hate all Jews.

Is that really what you're saying?

I hope not because that complete lack of any kind of logic or reason is abysmally friggin' stupid.

Look, I have no problems with Jews in general.

I work with Jews, live around Jews, have very good friends who are Jews, even a guy who I count among my very best and closest friends.

Similarly, I don't take issue with everything Israel does in the name of national security.

I recognize that you folks are in a very tough place, geopolitically speaking.

But when it comes to Israeli Jews who are building and living on illegal settlements I wouldn't say that I hope they'll be stabbed but when they are I have a tough time getting outraged over it.

I completely understand why Palestinians would want to stab them (or whatever) and I don't fault the Palestinians for carrying through.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I don't support Palestinians and hate the Jews/Israelis.

At the end of the day, I really don't care all that much about either of your peoples.

I wish the United States would disentangle ourselves from our alliance with Israel because I think Israel is a ****ty ally who causes us a great deal more harm that our alliance is worth, but I don't hate you people at all.

It's just a cost-benefit analysis from my perspective.
 
soot said:
Let me get you straight.

Because I don't agree with everything Israel does, it logically follows that I hate all Jews.

Is that really what you're saying?

I hope not because that complete lack of any kind of logic or reason is abysmally friggin' stupid.

Look, I have no problems with Jews in general.

I work with Jews, live around Jews, have very good friends who are Jews, even a guy who I count among my very best and closest friends.

Similarly, I don't take issue with everything Israel does in the name of national security.

I recognize that you folks are in a very tough place, geopolitically speaking.

But when it comes to Israeli Jews who are building and living on illegal settlements I wouldn't say that I hope they'll be stabbed but when they are I have a tough time getting outraged over it.

I completely understand why Palestinians would want to stab them (or whatever) and I don't fault the Palestinians for carrying through.

Just so there's no misunderstanding, I don't support Palestinians and hate the Jews/Israelis.

At the end of the day, I really don't care all that much about either of your peoples.

I wish the United States would disentangle ourselves from our alliance with Israel because I think Israel is a ****ty ally who causes us a great deal more harm that our alliance is worth, but I don't hate you people at all.

It's just a cost-benefit analysis from my perspective.
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No, thats not what I said.

You said in reply to the OP that if some "idiot" squated on "your lawn" youd probably stab him too.

As most of these attacks were aimed at ordinary people living their lives in Israel (not even in the West Bank), and I'm not different than any of them, does it mean that according to your preception I deserve to be stabbed?

Because you seem to imply that every Jew living in Israel is "squatting" on "Palestinian lawn" and deserves to be stabbed
 
Israel is the one breaking the status quo on the Temple Mount / Noble Sanctuary.

Religous status quos in Jerusalem like those on the Temple Mount and in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre* should not be trifled as doing so lets the violence genie gets out of the bottle.

* Even more complex, but less explosive than the Temple Mount, 3-5 Christian factions maintain a very long list of status quos at the church governing who does what, where, why, how and for how long. If these factions can agree on and maintain a status quo, I dont see why one cant be adhered to on the Mount.
 
ido_ said:
Because you seem to imply that every Jew living in Israel is "squatting" on "Palestinian lawn" and deserves to be stabbed
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No.

I was just talking about the Israelis who actually are squatting illegally such as the guy who got stabbed on Ammunition Hill.

That guy asked for it, as does anyone else occupying an illegal settlement.

Just so we're clear on the analogy:

Israeli citizen living legally in Israel =/= illegal squatter who deserves to be stabbed

Israeli citizen living illegally on illegal settlement = illegal squatter who needs a good stabbing
 
Cryptic said:
Israel is the one breaking the status quo on the Temple Mount / Noble Sanctuary.
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According to..?
Israel is not breaking the status quo and never had, that's bollocks.

Religous status quos in Jerusalem like those on the Temple Mount and in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre* should not be trifled as doing so lets the violence genie gets out of the bottle.
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Might be, but the status quo allows Jews to enter the Temple Mount, just not to pray there. Israel arrests Jews that pray in the Temple Mount. Of course the demand that Jews won't pray in the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism, is barbaric and backwards, and it emphasizes how wonderful it is that religious sites are governed by democratic nations such as Israel that allow worshippers of all faiths to express their religious beliefs and not in backwards theocracies like the rest of the middle east, that had they governed the Temple Mount would not allow Jews to enter.
 
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Apocalypse said:
According to..?
Israel is not breaking the status quo and never had, that's bollocks.
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The White House for one. White House calls for fully restored status quo on Temple Mount | Jewish Telegraphic Agency

My general understanding is that at one time the moslem Waqif controlled who had access to the Mount and that they were permitted to enforce a status quo existed where religously Jews were forbidden. Though forbidding religously dressed Jews is not fair, there are evidently alot things in area that may, or may not be completely "fair". Sometimes, allowing, but affirming, a little unfairness at religous sites in the area prevents bigger problems.
Leading rabbi: Jewish visitors to Temple Mount sparked tensions | The Times of Israel
Apocalypse said:
According to..?
Might be, but the status quo allows Jews to enter the Temple Mount, just not to pray there. Israel arrests Jews that pray in the Temple Mount.
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Times might be changing:Jerusalem court upholds Jewish prayer on Temple Mount - Israel News - Jerusalem Post
Apocalypse said:
According to..?
Of course the demand that Jews won't pray in the Temple Mount, the holiest site in Judaism, is barbaric and backwards,
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Of course it is backwards. But that does not mean it is wise to break the status quo at the site.

Apocalypse said:
According to..?
emphasizes how wonderful it is that religious sites are governed by democratic nations such as Israel that allow worshippers of all faiths to express their religious beliefs
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What about the Wailing Wall? Though concessions have been made, I dont think everybody is free to totally and completely express their religous beliefs at the Wall. Rather, some restrictions still remain.
 
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Cryptic said:
The White House for one. White House calls for fully restored status quo on Temple Mount | Jewish Telegraphic Agency
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If whenever I'm going to ask for support for a baseless claim of yours you'll be sending me to someone else who is saying so it wouldn't be going anywhere. No, Israel does not violate the status quo and hasn't done so. I am fully aware of the lies told by the Palestinian Authority and that are running in Arab media and have obviously made it to the White House, and am fully aware of the "repeat a lie long enough" phrase, but that doesn't make it true.

Israel has been guarding the status quo actually and has been doing so ever since 1967. Jews are allowed to enter, not to pray. Everyday Jews that pray in the Temple Mount are being arrested by Israeli police - and that's a fact. Something that I find to be barbaric and backwards and I'm sure most progressive folk would agree.

My general understanding is that at one time the moslem Waqif controlled who had access to the Mount and that they were permitted to enforce a status quo existed where religously Jews were forbidden. Though forbidding religously dressed Jews is not fair, there are evidently alot things in area that may, or may not be completely "fair". Sometimes, aloowing, but affirming, a little unfairness at religous sites in the area prevents bigger problems.
Leading rabbi: Jewish visitors to Temple Mount sparked tensions | The Times of Israel
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There's no doubt that some spark tensions, but not letting all Jews into the Temple Mount at all would be a terrible violation of their rights. The fear of violence cannot dictate our way of life.

Times might be changing:Jerusalem court upholds Jewish prayer on Temple Mount - Israel News - Jerusalem Post

Of course it is backwards. But that does not mean it is wise to break the status quo at the site.
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It isn't broken. Don't believe everything you hear. And it's very backwards and should be opposed by people, not supported.
 
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Cryptic said:
What about the Wailing Wall? Though concessions have been made, I dont think everybody is free to totally and completely express their religous beliefs at the Wall. Rather, some restrictions still remain.
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Such as? Just so we're sure what we're referring to here.
 
Apocalypse said:
Such as? Just so we're sure what we're referring to here.
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Seperate sections for men and women? Sections where women wearing or using traditionaly male religous implements are allowed to be and sections where they are not allowed to be? How open Bat Mitvah ceremonies can be in certain sections? Who can or cant openly carry Torah scrolls in certain sections (hence the need to "smuggle" small ones in)?

Why Jewish women had to smuggle a tiny Torah into the Western Wall
Israel: Police Arrest Five Women at Wailing Wall

I dont know the current situation as I have never been there. Some of these articles, however, are dated relatively recently.
 
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Cryptic said:
Seperate sections for men and women? Sections where women wearing or using traditionaly male religous implements are allowed to be and sections where they are not allowed to be?

Israel: Police Arrest Five Women at Wailing Wall
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While these are indeed regulations of religious practice in places of worship you certainly can't find them comparable to forbidding an entire religion from practicing their faith in their most sacred place. Imagine if Muslims weren't allowed into Mecca because it was also the third-holiest Christian site.

Religious freedom should always be encouraged, not discouraged. I realize that the situation on the ground and the politics surrounding it are making it a wise move to maintain the status quo in the Temple Mount - which really there is no sense in claiming that Israel has stopped doing and is an obvious (and unforunately common) lie told to incite a population against Israel and Jews in general - but that doesn't mean that we should support it.
 
soot said:
No.

I was just talking about the Israelis who actually are squatting illegally such as the guy who got stabbed on Ammunition Hill.

That guy asked for it, as does anyone else occupying an illegal settlement.

Just so we're clear on the analogy:

Israeli citizen living legally in Israel =/= illegal squatter who deserves to be stabbed

Israeli citizen living illegally on illegal settlement = illegal squatter who needs a good stabbing
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So if I was standing in the ammunition hill I was asking to be stabbed?
 
Cryptic said:
Seperate sections for men and women? Sections where women wearing or using traditionaly male religous implements are allowed to be and sections where they are not allowed to be? How open Bat Mitvah ceremonies can be in certain sections? Who can or cant openly carry Torah scrolls in certain sections (hence the need to "smuggle" small ones in)?

Why Jewish women had to smuggle a tiny Torah into the Western Wall
Israel: Police Arrest Five Women at Wailing Wall

I dont know the current situation as I have never been there. Some of these articles, however, are dated relatively recently.
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How is this different from your local orthodox synagogue ?
The Wailing Wall is partly a synagogue, it has its orthodox section split between men and women like any other synagogue and recently added a new section open for everyone who wish to worship in non orthodox way

and what does the temple mount has to do with the wailing wall?
 
Apocalypse said:
While these are indeed regulations of religious practice in places of worship you certainly can't find them comparable to forbidding an entire religion from practicing their faith in their most sacred place. Imagine if Muslims weren't allowed into Mecca because it was also the third-holiest Christian site.

Religious freedom should always be encouraged, not discouraged. I realize that the situation on the ground and the politics surrounding it are making it a wise move to maintain the status quo in the Temple Mount - which really there is no sense in claiming that Israel has stopped doing and is an obvious (and unforunately common) lie told to incite a population against Israel and Jews in general - but that doesn't mean that we should support it.
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I imagine that if moslems started holding prayer sessions at the Western Wall, there would be still further regulations implemented there.

I beleive the full status quo would be to allow moslem custodians full discretion on which jews, christians, hindus and atheists they allow onto the site.

I truly repect your contrary opinion though as you live there and are ready to accept the concequences of change at the site. In contrast, change at the site will not have an immediate impact on me.

At the same time, one can enjoy full freedom of religion and dress in Israel with out the need to express those freedoms at certain sites or in certain areas. Israel recognizes this by allowing Orthodox certain a degree of leeway in certain neighborhoods regarding who is, or is not allowed to easily enter wearing what type of clothing or displaying what kind of affection. If they continue to make concessions in those areas, I think they should make concessions at the Moutn where the stakes are higher.
 
Apocalypse said:
While these are indeed regulations of religious practice in places of worship you certainly can't find them comparable to forbidding an entire religion from practicing their faith in their most sacred place. Imagine if Muslims weren't allowed into Mecca because it was also the third-holiest Christian site.
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I do respect your opinion as you live there and are prepared for the possible concequences. I"ll respond in full tomorrow.

ido_ said:
and what does the temple mount has to do with the wailing wall?
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Full freedom of worship is not allowed in either place.
 
Cryptic said:
I imagine that if moslems started holding prayer sessions at the Western Wall, there would be still further regulations implemented there.

I beleive the full status quo would be to allow moslem custodians full discretion on which jews, christians, hindus and atheists they allow onto the site.

I truly repect your contrary opinion though as you live there and are ready to accept the concequences of change at the site. In contrast, change at the site will not have an immediate impact on me.

At the same time, one can enjoy full freedom of religion and dress in Israel with out the need to express those freedoms at certain sites or in certain areas. Israel recognizes this by allowing Orthodox certain a degree of leeway in certain neighborhoods regarding who is, or is not allowed to easily enter wearing what type of clothing or displaying what kind of affection. If they continue to make concessions in those areas, I think they should make concessions at the Moutn where the stakes are higher.
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Temple mount is not a mosque, it has a mosque and a shrine on it. When Jews enter temple mount (and on the contrary to what you say we have been entering since 67, I remember my grandparents taking me there about 30 years ago), they don't enter the mosque or the dome of the rock shrine, they just pass through at the plaza, usually surrounded by police which rush them through to the gate at the other side.

Temple-Mount-map-4.jpg
 
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