When will USA accept their crimes against Japan? - Page 4

bub · 06-10-08, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftydrifty

what are you talking about?

he says Americans (but not only Americans, everybody does it IMO) talk much more about Nanking or Auschwitz than Dresden.

I've read in my psychology book that when you're talking about nice things about you, you are likely to explain them with internal factors ("I'm intelligent", "I've worked a lot" and not "I was lucky") but when you're talking about bad things that happen to you, you explain them with external factors ("bad luck" and not "I've not worked enough")

And when you're talking to bad things about somebody else, you explain them with internal factors ("He's dumb") and not external factors ("He was not lucky")

So, about Nanking: "they are barbaric"
And about Dresden: "we had to do it"

Volker · 06-10-08, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niftydrifty

what are you talking about?

AkiraYamato spoke of the people who got killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Americans can condemn what happened in Nanking, but they are not willing to do this about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Iriemon · 06-10-08, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bub

It is true that most Allied war crimes are "isolated" (for example the murdering of unarmed Germans in Chenogne or in Utah was not part of a specific policy).

You can compare that to German soldiers killing Allied POWs/civilians during the battle of the Bulge, there was no order asking for that, it was commited by individuals.

And if that was the full extent of the crimes committed by the nazis in WWII, I'd agree they were comparable.

Quote:

However, there was a policy according to which Japaneses who surrendered should not be taken prisonner.
Then, the bombing of Dresden, which had no military importance, was not "limited" and was "government sanctionned".
So was the deportation of millions of people who wanted to flee from USSR (if you call it a war crime), or letting thousands of POW die from starvation.

I can agree we can debate whether bombing in wartime constitutes war crimes.

But you have not convinced me it compares with the systematic murder of millions of people because of their religious beliefs.

niftydrifty · 06-10-08, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Volker

AkiraYamato spoke of the people who got killed in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

Americans can condemn what happened in Nanking, but they are not willing to do this about what happened in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

BS. You used me as an example of this. so bugger off. I have spoken much more about Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

and I have never mentioned Nanking until now.

donsutherland1 · 06-10-08, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkiraYamato

We want that americans teach their war crimes in their schools.

I cannot speak for the experience in all American schools and their curricula, but in the lectures and discussions on World War II that I attended in high school, I was taught about the firebombings of Tokyo and Dresden. In addition, the class discussed whether such tactics were militarily appropriate (a large part of those two cities was not comprised of military installations or industrial facilities that could assist the war effort), constituted efforts to apply psychological pressure to shorten the war, amounted to acts of vengeance, or some combination of the above.

In any case, both Japan and the U.S. have put their conflict in WW II into the past. Although the past cannot be undone, both countries can strive to create a better future. And they have. Both nations have become reliable strategic allies and enjoy a mutually-beneficial relationship.

bub · 06-10-08, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

I can agree we can debate whether bombing in wartime constitutes war crimes.

Bombing of civilian targets (like Dresden) are war crimes, not the bombing of V2 factories in Pennemunde.

Quote:

But you have not convinced me it compares with the systematic murder of millions of people because of their religious beliefs.

I don't compare it with that. There was nothing like the Holocaust on the Allied side.

I'm rather talking about
- policies about not taking prisonners on the Pacific Front (which is IMO similar to Germans executing their Russian prisonners) and letting thousands of German POWs starving after the war (which is comparable to a certain extent to UK/US POWs starving in Burma)

- unnecessary bombing of civilian objectives in order to terrorise the population (there have been Köln, Dresden, and to a lesser extend Tokyo and Hamburg (who was destroyed while only its harbor had a strategic importance) which is comparable to the bombing of London and several other UK cities during the Blitz

- mutilation of Japanese deads, and more generally considering them as subhumans (= Germans considering Russians as subhumans)

- the deportation of millions of people who wanted to flee from USSR, and which led to the death of many of them.

American · 06-10-08, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkiraYamato

We want no apology. We want that americans teach their war crimes in their schools.

Really, like you?

AkiraYamato · 06-10-08, 10:17 AM

USA saw in japanese people animals. You teached your soldiers in propaganda, that japanese have no worth. You shot soldiers who surrenderd. Cut of their ears or even skulls as trophy. Americans acted worser with japanese, than the Nazis in russia.

Thats a fact. I can´t see americans as friends. They are barbaric.

American · 06-10-08, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkiraYamato

USA saw in japanese people animals. You teached your soldiers in propaganda, that japanese have no worth. You shot soldiers who surrenderd. Cut of their ears or even skulls as trophy. Americans acted worser with japanese, than the Nazis in russia.

Thats a fact. I can´t see americans as friends. They are barbaric.

You didn't answer my question. Do you teach your children about the Japanese atrocities in China and the Bataan Death March?

bub · 06-10-08, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AkiraYamato

USA saw in japanese people animals. You teached your soldiers in propaganda, that japanese have no worth. You shot soldiers who surrenderd. Cut of their ears or even skulls as trophy. Americans acted worser with japanese, than the Nazis in russia.

Thats a fact. I can´t see americans as friends. They are barbaric.

that's always funny to see a Japanese calling Americans barbaric.
As if Bin Laden complained about the Opus Dei for trying to convert people.

copy-paste it, replace "American" by "Japanese", and "Japanese" with "Chinese", and you will have lucid vision of history.

Nanking Massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Contest to kill 100 people using a sword - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

could you translate the little text for us?