Germany's Merkel vows to protect Israel... - Page 2

new coup for you · 03-21-08, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Australianlibertarian

Actually you can.

Why should you trust a nation that is not-democratic (democratic in name only), ruled by religious theology, funds terrorism overseas?.....

I can make the distinction between America, France, Britain and even Russia having nuclear weapons as opposed to Saudi Arabia or Iran..... It's really not that hard to reasonably distinguish between the two.

You see I am not one of these non-nuclear proliferation hippies, I think that any democratic, pluralistic, and liberal society should be allowed nukes (I know Russia or China don't really fall into this category, but these nations are not 'Religion of Peace' nut bags). What I don't want to see is nuclear weapons in the hands of people that intend to destroy or at least have a pathological hatred of their neighbors.

Lastly because Israel has a nuclear weapons program (which, mind you is undeclared) subsequently many of her Arab neighbors have been less interested in 'smashing the Jews into the Mediterranean sea'. Game theory at its best.

I'm inclined to agree with you reguarding Israel's suitabillitly for possession of nuclear weapons, however "you're not good like they are" is hardly an argument to use in a debate with Muslims nations, is it?

The way to prevent nuclearizing the Middle East is to declare it a nuclear-free zone, and enforce that rule fairly.

A nuclear Israel is nothing but a catalyst for its hostile neighbors to develop their own programs, as we've seen in Iran.

DarkWizard12 · 03-21-08, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new coup for you

ok "Dark Wizard"

from Texas

Michigan. I'm not a native texan :P

new coup for you · 03-21-08, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cherokee

Sure you can tell the Muslim world... "NO".
See how easy that was?...

Maybe you forgot the Muslims are the ones who cant seem to play nice with the joo's. Maybe it’s the way the Koran trashes them at every turn. Tell me why is it ALWAYS the Muslims who threaten and trash the Jewish?

Besides didn't you know the "Muslims" in Pakistan have nukes?

And telling them "no" has worked so well in Pakistan and Iran, hasn't it.

Stop being George Bush. Understand the limitations of our power. We can't prevent them from developing the bomb. It's impossible. What we have to do is make sure they have no reason to do so.

DarkWizard12 · 03-21-08, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new coup for you

And telling them "no" has worked so well in Pakistan and Iran, hasn't it.

Stop being George Bush. Understand the limitations of our power. We can't prevent them from developing the bomb. It's impossible. What we have to do is make sure they have no reason to do so.

They haven;t nuked anyone. Pakistan hasn't threaten anyone, and they have nukes. IRan has threaten us AND Israel, and guess what? They don't have nukular bombs.

new coup for you · 03-21-08, 07:37 PM

Iran's attainment of the bomb is an inevitabillilty. It's going to happen, just accept it. Any industrialized nation can develop nuclear weapons. It's just not that hard.

And Pakistan has definitely threatened India with their arsenal.

Australianlibertarian · 03-21-08, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new coup for you

I'm inclined to agree with you reguarding Israel's suitabillitly for possession of nuclear weapons, however "you're not good like they are" is hardly an argument to use in a debate with Muslims nations, is it?

The way to prevent nuclearizing the Middle East is to declare it a nuclear-free zone, and enforce that rule fairly.

A nuclear Israel is nothing but a catalyst for its hostile neighbors to develop their own programs, as we've seen in Iran.

Actually its a great argument. When the international community speaks about Sudan, in essence, they are telling Sudan that they are backward bigoted pricks that enjoy killing African Animists and Christians for fun. By commenting and attempting to control Sudan via the UN, the international community is setting standards, and trying to establish what is appropriate. That exact same can be said about nuclear weapons. Basically what the interantional community won't say publicaly, but is inferred, is that Saudi Arabia, Iran, Egypt or anyother daka daka jihad nation cannot be trusted with these weapons. Especially considering that such nations have produced Islamists from their millitary, the very people that would safeguard such weapons...

Flip side is that I would trust Turkey to have a nuclear bomb.....

Israel has the right to defend itself, and that includes deterrence. As you correctly pointed out, other M.E nations may then want to build such devices. Well I suppose that means the CIA, MI6, Mossad, French, Turkish and German Intelligence Agencies should get off their arses and start to subvert Arab nuclear programs.... Nothing like a bit of counter espionage.

new coup for you · 03-21-08, 07:51 PM

You'r still suffering the delusion that we can stop them. We can't. Iran, North Korea and Pakistan provide ample evidence of that. We cannot stop countries from developing weapons of mass destruction. It is impossible.

What we can do is address their reasons why.

Australianlibertarian · 03-21-08, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new coup for you

You'r still suffering the delusion that we can stop them. We can't. Iran, North Korea and Pakistan provide ample evidence of that. We cannot stop countries from developing weapons of mass destruction. It is impossible.

What we can do is address their reasons why.

I'm too lazy to find the link, but if you wiki 'Pakistan nuclear program' it suggests that the CIA via the previous U.S administrations were complicit in the Pakistan nuclear program. Basically the U.S wanted Pakistan as a strategic partner, that the U.S was willing to help Pakistan aquire the necessary materials.

I would argue that intelligence agencies have a very good idea of what certain materials are used for in nuclear programs. Because these items can be quites specific to nuclear weapons programs, intelligence services can keep tabs on these items. Granted that these materials may be used for civilian nuclear electricity generation, but again this is where intelligence and espionage come into things.

Therefore, the ability to stop such programs is not dependent on information, but rather the will to stop, or subvert a nation acquiring or preventing other nations from supplying such materials.

new coup for you · 03-21-08, 08:22 PM

So you're arguing for more Iraqs. Awesome idea.

WI Crippler · 03-21-08, 08:32 PM

Nice to see a European country other than England take a little accountability for how its past actions have shaped the modern world.

Thumbs up for Germany on this one.