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Thread: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

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    Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Then everyone needs to be able to communicate with each other. Well almost everyone anyway.


    Humans mainly interact in three ways: cooperation, trade, or force... and variations thereof.


    In only one of these is communication less vitally important... guess which one.


    It is difficult enough to engage in trade or cooperation with those whose culture, customs and norms differ dramatically from what you're used to... add in an inability to communicate clearly and the difficulties became almost insurmountable.

    Diplomats have first-class translators to help them understand the people they are negotiating with, including parsing nuances in the language.


    You don't have that. When you find yourself in a potential conflict or misunderstanding with people who don't speak any language you know, resolving that conflict is going to be extremely difficult.... let alone feeling comradely or brotherly towards those whose words and intentions are unknowable to you.


    Forcing everyone to learn all of the world's languages is not the answer. There are at least 6,500 languages currently spoken on Earth. Even if we limit it to the relatively common ones, there are 23 languages spoken by about half the world's population.


    Most people have enough trouble learning ONE new language, maybe two. There's a reason people who speak 5 or more languages are rare. It is difficult for most people to learn new languages.


    The answer seems obvious: everyone learn one language, the SAME language. It can be a second language, in addition to your native one, but it needs to be the one everyone else learns... then communication is far easier, trade and cooperation become much more feasible and violence less likely.


    At present, English is the most common second language in the world. That's a good start, but English or something needs to be taught universally as a 2nd language if we expect to ever have even the slightest chance at this "peace and brotherhood across the planet" idea.



    The current number of English speakers, both native and second language, is estimated to approach 1 Billion already. 55 nations officially teach English as a second language; English speakers can be found individually in almost any nation in some numbers. Seems like an obvious choice.

    Or if you don't like English fine offer an alternative, but SOME single language needs to become the Common Tongue of Earth if we're ever going to get anywhere together as Species Humanity.
    Last edited by Goshin; 01-06-17 at 04:02 PM.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    In many cultures, especially Asian cultures, the language is so deeply tied to that culture that simply learning the words and sounds isn't enough. It's also difficult for those cultures to translate directly to English.

    While I think the general idea of a common language is great I also believe that one of the ways we preserve our species is through cultural diversity and trying to understand other cultures. To that end, we have to be careful that the use of a common language doesn't become a crutch we can use to kind of hobble past other cultures without truly understanding them.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Then everyone needs to be able to communicate with each other. Well almost everyone anyway.


    Humans mainly interact in three ways: cooperation, trade, or force... and variations thereof.


    In only one of these is communication less vitally important... guess which one.


    It is difficult enough to engage in trade or cooperation with those whose culture, customs and norms differ dramatically from what you're used to... add in an inability to communicate clearly and the difficulties became almost insurmountable.

    Diplomats have first-class translators to help them understand the people they are negotiating with, including parsing nuances in the language.


    You don't have that. When you find yourself in a potential conflict or misunderstanding with people who don't speak any language you know, resolving that conflict is going to be extremely difficult.... let alone feeling comradely or brotherly towards those whose words and intentions are unknowable to you.


    Forcing everyone to learn all of the world's languages is not the answer. There are at least 6,500 languages currently spoken on Earth. Even if we limit it to the relatively common ones, there are 23 languages spoken by about half the world's population.


    Most people have enough trouble learning ONE new language, maybe two. There's a reason people who speak 5 or more languages are rare. It is difficult for most people to learn new languages.


    The answer seems obvious: everyone learn one language, the SAME language. It can be a second language, in addition to your native one, but it needs to be the one everyone else learns... then communication is far easier, trade and cooperation become much more feasible and violence less likely.


    At present, English is the most common second language in the world. That's a good start, but English or something needs to be taught universally as a 2nd language if we expect to ever have even the slightest chance at this "peace and brotherhood across the planet" idea.



    The current number of English speakers, both native and second language, is estimated to approach 1 Billion already. 55 nations officially teach English as a second language; English speakers can be found individually in almost any nation in some numbers. Seems like an obvious choice.

    Or if you don't like English fine offer an alternative, but SOME single language needs to become the Common Tongue of Earth if we're ever going to get anywhere together as Species Humanity.
    A universal language would help some things, and maybe avoid a few misunderstandings, but I don't think it's an impediment to cooperation if you don't have one.

    People of goodwill who want to cooperate will overcome any language barrier. Fostering goodwill and a desire to cooperate is far more the key.
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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    A universal language would help some things, and maybe avoid a few misunderstandings, but I don't think it's an impediment to cooperation if you don't have one.

    People of goodwill who want to cooperate will overcome any language barrier. Fostering goodwill and a desire to cooperate is far more the key.


    I don't entirely disagree, but absent the ability to communicate clearly the degree of cooperation that can be achieved is going to be limited.


    I'm not talking so much about the diplomatic level, but the personal level, where people from different cultures try to connect and form fellow feeling... a common language would be a major aid.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    I think most people want what was described in the OP, however I think its naive to think that having one universal language is going to get us there. The reasons for conflict throughout the world are diverse and complex. History tells us that peace & brotherhood is a concept that has rarely if ever existed.

    Why is the United States so fractured and violent, despite our honorable attempts at creating a multicultural society, yet a country like Japan is not? Japan has made no attempt at welcoming outsiders unless its for purposes of business and tourism.

    The 5 safest places to live have one thing in common, they are not multicultural or diverse:
    1Finland - rating: 6.7
    2Qatar - 6.61
    3UAE - 6.6
    4Iceland - 6.5
    5Austria - 6.47
    Mapped: The world's safest (and least safe) countries

    The UK ranks 63rd on the list of safest countries, and the US ranks 73rd, while a country like Saudi Arabia, which still liberally employs capital punishment, has a better safety rating.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    I think most people want what was described in the OP, however I think its naive to think that having one universal language is going to get us there. The reasons for conflict throughout the world are diverse and complex. History tells us that peace & brotherhood is a concept that has rarely if ever existed.

    Why is the United States so fractured and violent, despite our honorable attempts at creating a multicultural society, yet a country like Japan is not? Japan has made no attempt at welcoming outsiders unless its for purposes of business and tourism.

    The 5 safest places to live have one thing in common, they are not multicultural or diverse:
    1Finland - rating: 6.7
    2Qatar - 6.61
    3UAE - 6.6
    4Iceland - 6.5
    5Austria - 6.47
    Mapped: The world's safest (and least safe) countries

    The UK ranks 63rd on the list of safest countries, and the US ranks 73rd, while a country like Saudi Arabia, which still liberally employs capital punishment, has a better safety rating.
    Well if you include the migrant population in those middle eastern countries they are quite diverse, actually outnumbering native born people in those countries. Their methodology makes literally no sense. You have Armenia and Azerbaijan ranking above the UK, two countries constantly on the brink of war and have an active insurgency.
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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Universal translators are being created already. Pilot earpiece

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Then everyone needs to be able to communicate with each other. Well almost everyone anyway.


    Humans mainly interact in three ways: cooperation, trade, or force... and variations thereof.


    In only one of these is communication less vitally important... guess which one.


    It is difficult enough to engage in trade or cooperation with those whose culture, customs and norms differ dramatically from what you're used to... add in an inability to communicate clearly and the difficulties became almost insurmountable.

    Diplomats have first-class translators to help them understand the people they are negotiating with, including parsing nuances in the language.


    You don't have that. When you find yourself in a potential conflict or misunderstanding with people who don't speak any language you know, resolving that conflict is going to be extremely difficult.... let alone feeling comradely or brotherly towards those whose words and intentions are unknowable to you.


    Forcing everyone to learn all of the world's languages is not the answer. There are at least 6,500 languages currently spoken on Earth. Even if we limit it to the relatively common ones, there are 23 languages spoken by about half the world's population.


    Most people have enough trouble learning ONE new language, maybe two. There's a reason people who speak 5 or more languages are rare. It is difficult for most people to learn new languages.


    The answer seems obvious: everyone learn one language, the SAME language. It can be a second language, in addition to your native one, but it needs to be the one everyone else learns... then communication is far easier, trade and cooperation become much more feasible and violence less likely.


    At present, English is the most common second language in the world. That's a good start, but English or something needs to be taught universally as a 2nd language if we expect to ever have even the slightest chance at this "peace and brotherhood across the planet" idea.



    The current number of English speakers, both native and second language, is estimated to approach 1 Billion already. 55 nations officially teach English as a second language; English speakers can be found individually in almost any nation in some numbers. Seems like an obvious choice.

    Or if you don't like English fine offer an alternative, but SOME single language needs to become the Common Tongue of Earth if we're ever going to get anywhere together as Species Humanity.
    You make lots of good points.

    I was taught never try to negotiate in a language you speaks quite well anything less than near perfections will result in misunderstandings.

    The three core subjects in Swedish schools are Maths, Swedish and English. And Swedes can get annoyed when traveling if English is not understood in, say, hotels and restaurants. Their own proficiency in English is, among the young at least, pretty good - but less so than that of the Danes and Dutch.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carjosse View Post
    Well if you include the migrant population in those middle eastern countries they are quite diverse, actually outnumbering native born people in those countries.
    Qatar's list of ethnic groups:
    1.Arab 40%
    2. Indian 18%
    3. Other (Made up of various Asian peoples) 14%
    4. Iranian 10%
    5. Pakistani 8.5%

    90% of residents in Qatar are Sunni Muslim, while 10% are Shi'a.

    UAE's ethnic groups:
    1. South Asian 50%
    2. Arab and Persian 23% combined
    3. Emirati 19%
    4. Others (Westerners and east Asians) 8%

    Religions of the UAE:
    Muslim 76%
    Other 15%
    Christianity 9%
    ------------------------------
    Are these countries really as diverse as you're making them sound?



    Their methodology makes literally no sense. You have Armenia and Azerbaijan ranking above the UK, two countries constantly on the brink of war and have an active insurgency.
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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by truthatallcost View Post
    Qatar's list of ethnic groups:
    1.Arab 40%
    2. Indian 18%
    3. Other (Made up of various Asian peoples) 14%
    4. Iranian 10%
    5. Pakistani 8.5%

    90% of residents in Qatar are Sunni Muslim, while 10% are Shi'a.

    UAE's ethnic groups:
    1. South Asian 50%
    2. Arab and Persian 23% combined
    3. Emirati 19%
    4. Others (Westerners and east Asians) 8%

    Religions of the UAE:
    Muslim 76%
    Other 15%
    Christianity 9%
    ------------------------------
    Are these countries really as diverse as you're making them sound?





    UK is violent crime capital of Europe
    UK is violent crime capital of Europe - Telegraph
    What is your definition of diverse? Do you consider all Muslims the same? The UK is ~85% British, that makes the Gulf states substantially more diverse. Diversity aside the UK also still has much lower crime rates than the US.
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