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Thread: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

  1. #21
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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    True, but math as a mode of communication is a very narrow conduit for information.
    Nope, Pomerance explains how you could communicate with ET using only primes and image:


    " Create a rectangle.
    Divide it into units, such that each side has the length of a certain prime number.
    Encode images into the rectangular grid by making each square black or white (or a dot or a dash).
    Take apart the image row-by-row or column-by-column and make it into one long pattern.
    Transmit the message."

    Eventually you'd get as efficient as typing words, because you'd memorize what to draw
    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    Slavery also doesn't necessarily have to be terrible.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    ...
    In other words you want to destroy all human cultures but a single one in order to instigate your little totalitarian internationalist project. And of course since people will disagree you will have to enforce it upon them with bullets to create peace.

    No, thanks, I prefer sovereign nations: my country, my culture, your country, your culture. Tourists welcome, immigrants not so much. It is stable, democratic, it works, and it makes mankind more diverse, richer and interesting.

  3. #23
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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    1. I can't even understand the English of many Americans.
    2. A universal language will not achieve world peace. I point to civil wars as evidence.
    3. English is a much more difficult language than many others. I consider Spanish the simplest language.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Media_Truth View Post
    2. A universal language will not achieve world peace. I point to civil wars as evidence.
    Indeed, the author's premise that conflicts come from communication difficulties is extremely naive.

    Modern theories of conflicts emphasize the role of social identities as the most common cause of conflicts. At most language is one of the many identity factors, but there is also religion, skin color, geography, nationality, culture, ...

    The best way to reduce conflicts is to account for human nature and minimize conflicting interactions. Partitioning people into homogeneous nations is the surest way to achieve this, along with well designed mechanisms for international relationships, especially trade.

    Forcing people to live together and attempting to destroy our nations, cultures and sovereignties will only cause a century of blood baths. Immigration and the EU are highways to hell.
    Last edited by Auvergnat; 01-07-17 at 05:40 AM.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    While it would be a good first step toward uniting humanity, this sets up a precedent for an oppressive global body thereafter enforcing a world religion, a world political system and world ideology. I think first and foremost we should reject the divide-and-conquer agenda set about by world leaders and learn to appreciate one another's diversity, that way we can become more comfortable with exchanging customs and languages, and building one another up through the lens of diversity - utilizing it as a strength toward unity as opposed to a weakness.
    "It's a big club, and you ain't in it! The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged. It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it..." - George Carlin

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbazorkzog View Post
    I think first and foremost we should reject the divide-and-conquer agenda set about by world leaders and learn to appreciate one another's diversity
    First of all this is wishful thinking: you propose no realistic policy, you simply wish that humanity will stop being humanity.

    Second of all what does it mean to "appreciate another's diversity"? Share your territory and political power with them? Under which terms? Your own liberal framework, or for example half of your liberal framework and half of the Sharia? Do you expect that you culture will prevail with a little exoticism or do you intend to destroy both of your respective cultures by blending them?

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Auvergnat View Post
    First of all this is wishful thinking: you propose no realistic policy, you simply wish that humanity will stop being humanity.

    Second of all what does it mean to "appreciate another's diversity"? Share your territory and political power with them? Under which terms? Your own liberal framework, or for example half of your liberal framework and half of the Sharia? Do you expect that you culture will prevail with a little exoticism or do you intend to destroy both of your respective cultures by blending them?
    Jesus ****ing Christ, dude. I wasn't talking about implementing Sharia law.
    "It's a big club, and you ain't in it! The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged. It's called the American Dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it..." - George Carlin

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Then everyone needs to be able to communicate with each other. Well almost everyone anyway.


    Humans mainly interact in three ways: cooperation, trade, or force... and variations thereof.


    In only one of these is communication less vitally important... guess which one.


    It is difficult enough to engage in trade or cooperation with those whose culture, customs and norms differ dramatically from what you're used to... add in an inability to communicate clearly and the difficulties became almost insurmountable.

    Diplomats have first-class translators to help them understand the people they are negotiating with, including parsing nuances in the language.


    You don't have that. When you find yourself in a potential conflict or misunderstanding with people who don't speak any language you know, resolving that conflict is going to be extremely difficult.... let alone feeling comradely or brotherly towards those whose words and intentions are unknowable to you.


    Forcing everyone to learn all of the world's languages is not the answer. There are at least 6,500 languages currently spoken on Earth. Even if we limit it to the relatively common ones, there are 23 languages spoken by about half the world's population.


    Most people have enough trouble learning ONE new language, maybe two. There's a reason people who speak 5 or more languages are rare. It is difficult for most people to learn new languages.


    The answer seems obvious: everyone learn one language, the SAME language. It can be a second language, in addition to your native one, but it needs to be the one everyone else learns... then communication is far easier, trade and cooperation become much more feasible and violence less likely.


    At present, English is the most common second language in the world. That's a good start, but English or something needs to be taught universally as a 2nd language if we expect to ever have even the slightest chance at this "peace and brotherhood across the planet" idea.



    The current number of English speakers, both native and second language, is estimated to approach 1 Billion already. 55 nations officially teach English as a second language; English speakers can be found individually in almost any nation in some numbers. Seems like an obvious choice.

    Or if you don't like English fine offer an alternative, but SOME single language needs to become the Common Tongue of Earth if we're ever going to get anywhere together as Species Humanity.
    Having some facility - though not necessarily fluency (however you define that) - with multiple languages is uncommon in America but it is common in the rest of the world. I know a half dozen people who are conversant in at least 4 languages: two Europeans, one from India and three from the Middle East. In the case of one emigre from the Middle East he speaks 6: Farsi, three tribal tongues, English and Russian. I can't vouch for the others but his English is as good as mine. It helps a lot when you're exposed to it on a daily basis.

    English is already the official language of aviation - all pilots are expected to be able to communicate with ATC in English. Listening to pilots communicating with NY Approach Control while enroute to/from JFK many foreign pilots seem to have, at best, a tenuous grasp of the language.

    It's also the unofficial language of business. I fairly regularly attend conference calls with people in Europe and Asia and they are always conducted in English. The attendees speak with varying degrees of fluency and there are certainly misunderstandings but it works and I honestly admire the effort those folks put into trying to communicate with us.

    Learning foreign languages - especially ones from radically different cultures - is hard work. It's not just learning words and grammar. You have to learn the culture and the thought processes of the people as well because those are inextricably tied to language. That's one of the reasons why I'm dismayed that we don't really demand that Americans learn - really learn - 2nd languages. It isolates us to an extent from the rest of the world as much as the oceans did back in the days of sailing ships.

    It would be goodness if there was a single common language that we could speak in addition to whatever our mother tongue is. Unless we're talking some made up language like Esperanto, English or Chinese are probably the obvious choices.

    Or perhaps over time the worlds more common languages will meld together. The vocabularies of many languages already contain a significant number of 'loanwords" from other languages because of the interactions between their speakers. Maybe in a couple hundred years most people will speak some weird - to us - amalgam of English, Spanish and Chinese. Or something.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abbazorkzog View Post
    Jesus ****ing Christ, dude. I wasn't talking about implementing Sharia law.
    I didn't say you were. I asked whether "appreciating another's diversity" actually means for you living together on equal terms, which implies to sacrifice things important to you to make room for things important to them.

    As for me, I do not want to sacrifice things that are important to me in my own country. This is why I oppose further immigration.

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    Re: Do you want Peace and Brotherhood?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrPeanut View Post
    Universal translators are being created already. Pilot earpiece
    I read about these on Minds.com (which is like Facebook for grown-ups) awhile ago. An awesome idea.
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