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Thread: Refugees.

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    Refugees.

    One of the biggest problems with wars is the displacement of people, or, refugees. these people flee wars to get a better grip on life, and, they often find themselves in camps where they collect and seek refuge from the horrors of war.

    Previously, i said they should sell their homes and be granted citizenship in certain areas with the money from their bank accounts and homes they sell. the problem is, their homes are probably in a shambles and it would take much effort to sell all their homes.

    So, we need a new plan. if the refugees were to apply to the state for finances, they would drag the state they are in down. there is needs, but there is no way to satisfy these needs without welfare, it seems...

    Maybe if the refugees were to begin subsistence farming for themselves, as, they can all surely plant seeds and pick fruit and vegetables, they could feed themselves shortly. all that would be required then is land.

    If they were to be granted bricks and cement, they could build their own homes? there are no doubt some builders among them that can oversee this? they could help the people build their own houses.

    So far, this new plan needs only seeds and building materials...

    Then, they need hygiene. this could be sorted by making 'natural soaps' out of fat, where the fat they cut off at the abattoir could be donated to the welfare set up of volunteers to make them soaps. these volunteers could be jail house people if need be.

    Now, they need water. if they were to settle near to rivers, they could have that need, maybe with a few chemicals thrown into the river to clean the water of excrement and other things? this is also cheap.

    How about refuse removal? this would be a major problem, and, they could have it sought to by selling it as 'fertilizer.' there is much of this needed where the crops grow and where the livestock feed, mind you.

    So, seeds, cheap building materials, fat, cheap chemicals and portable toilets.

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    Re: Refugees.

    Proverbially, no good deed goes unpunished. The best we have to offer thus far is, throw some money in their general direction and pass it off to the next generation to handle.

    Although, if that Saudi bill remains law, it will be interesting to see how the international tribunal community receives international complaints in the matter of refugee crises. Trial lawyers probably fantasize about that kind of thing. Maybe they could sue for citizenship.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, you can't complain about this.
    That's the thing about living in a free country, you don't get to pick and choose the rights you want protected. Either they're all protected, or none of them are.

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    Re: Refugees.

    If we really want to help the refugees, they need "fishing rods, not fish." these could be old tools donated from an upgrade from the private sector helped along by the state - the state could bring taxes down on 'tools' for a week, and then see a flood of new purchases of 'tools' while the old ones are agreed to be donated to the new influx of people or refugees. the private sector would benefit from the latest machinery, and, the refugees would have a mean to generate an income, of course. the drop in taxes would see the flood of tools for a while, and this skimming of taxes from these purchases will boost the economy of the state, of course.

    Then, they could do the same with building materials. this would see the same effect on housing as on tooling, of course. how about food stuffs? for the time between the subsistence farming and now, they could buy food en mass by lowering taxes for a period, with 'suppliers' agreeing to donate eighty percent of their gains over and above the line to the refugees?

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    Re: Refugees.

    How does decreasing state revenue increase the economy of the state? If spending stayed the same, wouldn't that increase the debt?
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, you can't complain about this.
    That's the thing about living in a free country, you don't get to pick and choose the rights you want protected. Either they're all protected, or none of them are.

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    Re: Refugees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    How does decreasing state revenue increase the economy of the state? If spending stayed the same, wouldn't that increase the debt?
    I don't understand what you are saying.

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    Re: Refugees.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrettNortje View Post
    I don't understand what you are saying.
    I was referring to taxation. Taxes are state revenue, I think exclusively in a capitalist society like ours.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, you can't complain about this.
    That's the thing about living in a free country, you don't get to pick and choose the rights you want protected. Either they're all protected, or none of them are.

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    Re: Refugees.

    Maybe the best way to deal with refugees is to empower them to make their own markets inside 'the camps.' This would see them introduce a new currency where they spread it within the camps, and it will gain value the more it is used, or,

    They could withdraw their own money from back home to use here? this would require a trip to the bank, but, maybe the public service sector could help over weekends? this would see them work, as i saw, in a jail on a movie. they would respect the money they withdraw in european and african currencies and then use it to buy themselves things for a while. if they do not have a identity book, they may be finger printed and have their identity revealed for issuing of a proper booklet.

    This would see them gain a meager amount of capital. this would help them set up a 'combined business,' on the spanish model of some business i forgot about, but, it doesn't have an owner as such, if i remember correctly?

    Or they could use the crowd funding model from start up dot com? what is it called... kick starter?

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    Re: Refugees.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    I was referring to taxation. Taxes are state revenue, I think exclusively in a capitalist society like ours.
    It comes in bulk - if you lower taxes for a certain amount of time, it will up sales for that time so the state breaks even, yet the people prosper.

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    Re: Refugees.

    Quote Originally Posted by BrettNortje View Post
    It comes in bulk - if you lower taxes for a certain amount of time, it will up sales for that time so the state breaks even, yet the people prosper.
    There's no guarantee that people will be buying what you're selling. People are greedy - they love to sit on money and watch it grow. That doesn't make the state prosper and sometimes, when banks fail, the people don't prosper either.

    I'm not buying the "what's good for business is good for the people" argument. It's idealistic at best, but has it worked in trickle down economics? I don't think so. Any example in international economics will do.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Then, you can't complain about this.
    That's the thing about living in a free country, you don't get to pick and choose the rights you want protected. Either they're all protected, or none of them are.

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    Re: Refugees.

    The most important thing for the refugees is their food supply. this needs to come from farms, of course, or imports. maybe the refugees could sell the food to the other refugees and get paid a few dollars for each amount they sell? this still means the refugees will need money though.

    So, to get the refugees money, the state could organize for them jobs, or, more jobs. this could be where the refugees sell their most precious plentiful resource - time and energy - to the private and public sectors. this could see the refugees take on roles like police and social workers, employing about twenty percent of them. the rest could be employed to man markets for the people there, where the police and social workers buy gods from the markets that are there for sale. so far, about forty percent of them are employed, yes?

    Then, some of the refugees could move into the city, becoming salesmen. these are now also european and african citizens, so, will have to pay taxes on the stuff they buy and sell, raising the income from taxation, of course.

    Maybe some of them could become teachers and doctors - they all had jobs before they came, they all have some skill, so they should use it. maybe the public sector servicemen could come out to the camps and inquire about what they used to do, and have them prove it skimpily to them, then the banks could organize loans based on skills and a plan?

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