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Gaddafi

sKiTzo said:
Are you Libyan? Because you're the only one on here who knows exactly what really happpened. I was like everybody else here - I had thought Gaddafi was a maniac dictator BECAUSE I LISTENED TO WHAT THE MEDIA TOLD US. I was so shocked when I found out the truth because it revealed another truth much bigger than anything else we could ever discuss here. It appears we've underestimated the scale of the role that the media plays in deceiving the people and its effectiveness.

We all know the media lies. What we didn't know was the grand scale of it all. This means that control of the media is the #1 most important tool of the globalists. This makes me wonder if Assad is the maniac they say he is, and if Hussein or Khomeni were as well...after all, they all have one thing in common: they were leaders of the few remaining countries that were not under Rothschild banking control. This is so fkng sick it's amazing.
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I can't believe noone is commenting on this shocking revelation. Should I have the thread moved to media bias or conspiracy theories?
 
BrewerBob said:
I was living in Libya and working in the embassy up until the time of the revolution. The guy was a wack job but at the same time the people were relatively well off. Housing, food and fuel were very affordable. Though I certainly wouldn't call it a fun place to be. Us diplomats weren't allowed to leave the capital without permission from the host government and that was almost never granted, especially for lower level folks like me. I had 24 hr surveillance on me. They weren't trying to hide it. One time I came home and my wife wasn't home. She didn't drive so I knew she hadn't gone far. I walked out to the car that was always in front of my house and asked the two agents in the car where my wife was and they told me she was in the dvd store across the street. Sometimes I would give them bottled water or a slice of my pizza.

If you lived your life the way you were expected the regime left you alone. But if you pissed them off they would make you disappear. The protests, in Tripoli at least, started off peacefully. But they were met with violence and instead of caving in they fought back. Things escalated very quickly from there. It took us a week before we were able to evacuate. Scariest week of my life because my family was there with me. My oldest son at the time was five years old. He thought the sounds of combat outside were fireworks and was constantly angry at me that I forced him to lay down in the bathtub instead of letting him go outside to watch.

I personally supported the air support at the time, though I wasn't involved in policy. But in hindsight I would be lying to myself if I said the average Libyan is better off now than they were before the revolution.
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What exactly were the protesters in Tripoli protesting about?
 
sKiTzo said:
What exactly were the protesters in Tripoli protesting about?
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They were protesting their relatively middle-class lives. They were demanding that NATO oust Gaddafi so that Al-Qaeda could take over.
 
sKiTzo said:
I can't believe noone is commenting on this shocking revelation. Should I have the thread moved to media bias or conspiracy theories?
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because theres no such thing as rothschild banking control thats sounds like anti-semitic conspiracy crap too me. there is something to be said about the petrodollar and the connection to oil and the wars in the middle east but if you think the rothschilds are influential in history at all then your crazy
 
dimensionallava said:
because theres no such thing as rothschild banking control thats sounds like anti-semitic conspiracy crap too me. there is something to be said about the petrodollar and the connection to oil and the wars in the middle east but if you think the rothschilds are influential in history at all then your crazy
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That's not just anti-semetic, that's insane Illuminati, Alex Jones-esque bull****.
 
TheGoverness said:
That's not just anti-semetic, that's insane Illuminati, Alex Jones-esque bull****.
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I like everybody of all races, creeds, and colors. I never judge a book by its cover and I'm not an asshole until someone's an asshole to me first. But for some reason my gut feeling tells me to never trust a human being that tries to use the words "anti-semite" as a weapon or shield. That person, to me, is a bad-joo giving good jews a bad name.
 
Sherman123 said:
Mentally deranged despot responsible for tens of thousands of deaths.
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Hey Shermie, how you doin' there buddy? So, you're in the northeast and I'm in California... that means the media lies to everybody nationwide. Before we go any further let me just ask you if you care to know that the media punks you every day, not just with fake shootings propaganda for gun control, but complete fabrication of the Gaddafi "dictatorship" so NATO could take him out for their own extremely dishonorable reasons that are quite alarming. Is it worth an hour and a half of your time to know the truth?

Here is what they were telling us (notice that among the people "fleeing" from the "massacre" is a woman carrying a plastic truck - REALLLY?):



If you watch this in its entirety you will be pissed off (assuming you care about being punked by the media):

 
sKiTzo said:
If you watch this in its entirety you will be pissed off (assuming you care about being punked by the media):

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great channel... i like this video by that guy



of course all those who are being punked by the media and still think the earth is round.... wont watch it
 
Gaddaffi was a bastard... brutal and so on. However he was a hell of a lot better than the current crop. Same with Saddam.. sure he was brutal and all that, but considering he held Iran in check plus kept the tribes in check.. then he was a hell of a lot better than the current crop. Same with Assad. Without Assad the country would tear it self apart, which is exactly what happened when Assad was weakened and the rebels were artificially boosted by the west. In the vacuum we got ISIS...

I am a pragmatist, and I have lived in the Middle East, and most country needs a strong man. Why? The lack of education for the masses, especially for women. Because of these highly traditionalist countries, the reaction to the fall of a strong man will not be democracy as some on the right in the west predicted, but a jostling for power and becoming the next strong man. There is simply no tradition for democracy at any level of society and they will revert to tribal, religious and traditional "safe spots" to maintain some sort of normality. This is usually done with violence though.

Gaddafi might have been brutal, but he gave women rights. Now.. not so much. He might have been brutal, but the killing has exploded since he was thrown out. Is that any better? Libya has gone from being an actual state, with institutions and society, to becoming a failed state where warlords fight over land and power while the population suffers. Oh lets not forget a haven for ISIS and other terror groups. The new ISIS capital is in Libya..

You dont create a democracy via violent overthrow.. I cant remember any situation where it has worked. Democracy has to be grown from within..
 
PeteEU said:
Gaddaffi was a bastard... brutal and so on. However he was a hell of a lot better than the current crop. Same with Saddam.. sure he was brutal and all that, but considering he held Iran in check plus kept the tribes in check.. then he was a hell of a lot better than the current crop. Same with Assad. Without Assad the country would tear it self apart, which is exactly what happened when Assad was weakened and the rebels were artificially boosted by the west. In the vacuum we got ISIS...

I am a pragmatist, and I have lived in the Middle East, and most country needs a strong man. Why? The lack of education for the masses, especially for women. Because of these highly traditionalist countries, the reaction to the fall of a strong man will not be democracy as some on the right in the west predicted, but a jostling for power and becoming the next strong man. There is simply no tradition for democracy at any level of society and they will revert to tribal, religious and traditional "safe spots" to maintain some sort of normality. This is usually done with violence though.

Gaddafi might have been brutal, but he gave women rights. Now.. not so much. He might have been brutal, but the killing has exploded since he was thrown out. Is that any better? Libya has gone from being an actual state, with institutions and society, to becoming a failed state where warlords fight over land and power while the population suffers. Oh lets not forget a haven for ISIS and other terror groups. The new ISIS capital is in Libya..

You dont create a democracy via violent overthrow.. I cant remember any situation where it has worked. Democracy has to be grown from within..
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Who told you that Gaddafi was brutal?
 
We should have left him in power, and probably worked with him. THis is about Libya but also about keeping our word so that in the future people will trust us. We screwed Gaddafi AFTER he had gone far towards meeting out demands, when he was not being particularly brutal with his own people, we weakened our own position as we encouraged chaos in Libya.

Entering the civil war was a huge blunder.
 
To those of you defending Gaddafi, he worked with Nazis.

Otto Skorzeny: Paladin Group

Based near Alicante, Spain, the Paladin Group specialized in arming and training guerrillas, and its clients included the South African Bureau of State Security and Muammar Gaddafi.
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What Links the IRA, Libya, and Islamic Terrorists?

Otto Skorzeny, Hitler's Commando bodyguard, had been spending time in Egypt post-war, organising his Nazi mercenaries and generally making a nuisance of himself. In 1952 the country had been taken over by General Mohammed Naguib. Skorzeny was sent to Egypt the following year to act as Naguib's military advisor.
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It is widely known that Gaddafi's Libya supplied the weapons and explosives for the IRA. What is less known, is that Skorzeny's Nazi mercenary group installed Gaddafi. I would bet big money that Skorzeny brokered the weapons deals between Gaddafi and the IRA.
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Otto Skorzeny and the Paladin Group

A strategic paramiliitary organisation operating for the purposes of special operations and political subversion – working for anyone who paid their fee. The outfit was run by Dr. Gerhard Hartmut von Schubert, formerly of Goebbels’ Propaganda Ministry, who had trained security personnel in Argentina and Egypt after the war. Under his guidance, Paladin provided support to the PFLP – EO led by Wadie Haddad. The Group’s other clients included the South African Bureau of State Security and Colonel Muammar al-Gaddafi.
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Paladin Group
 
PeteEU said:
..............You dont create a democracy via violent overthrow.. I cant remember any situation where it has worked. Democracy has to be grown from within..
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I can.

Germany. Japan. Italy.

Ah, those were the days, eh?

The caveat being of course that all (even Japan of sorts) had some democratic tradition before going insanely totalitarian.

Something that Libya, Iraq and Syria never got around to, alone on not having existed long enough.
 
Hawkeye10 said:
We should have left him in power, and probably worked with him. THis is about Libya but also about keeping our word so that in the future people will trust us. We screwed Gaddafi AFTER he had gone far towards meeting out demands, when he was not being particularly brutal with his own people, we weakened our own position as we encouraged chaos in Libya.

Entering the civil war was a huge blunder.
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My god - what does it take to get people to see the light?

THERE WAS NO CIVIL WAR. THESE PEOPLE WERE LIVING THE HIGHEST QUALITY OF LIFE. THEY HAD ZERO HOMELESS. ELECTRICITY, TUITION, AND HEALTHCARE WERE FREE. GADDAFI HARNESSED THE WEALTH OF THE NATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE. HE SPREAD AND SHARED THE WEALTH. IN 1977, HE GAVE UP RULE AND TURNED IT OVER TO THE PEOPLE SETTING UP TRIBUNALS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THAT WERE RUN BY THE PEOPLE. THE "REBELS" WERE CIA-TRAINED MERCENARIES, NOT LIBYANS, AND THEY WERE BOMBING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.. GADDAFI WAS A HERO TO HIS PEOPLE. HE MADE GHANDI LOOK LIKE HITLER. NATO DESTROYED EVERYTHING THEY HAD WITH THE MEDIA LYING TO US SAYING HE WAS A BRUTAL DICTATOR. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. WE'VE BEEN PUNKED ONCE AGAIN BY THE MEDIA.

I'm fkn pissed and so should you be.
 
sKiTzo said:
My god - what does it take to get people to see the light?

THERE WAS NO CIVIL WAR. THESE PEOPLE WERE LIVING THE HIGHEST QUALITY OF LIFE. THEY HAD ZERO HOMELESS. ELECTRICITY, TUITION, AND HEALTHCARE WERE FREE. GADDAFI HARNESSED THE WEALTH OF THE NATION TO BENEFIT THE PEOPLE. HE SPREAD AND SHARED THE WEALTH. IN 1977, HE GAVE UP RULE AND TURNED IT OVER TO THE PEOPLE SETTING UP TRIBUNALS ALL OVER THE COUNTRY THAT WERE RUN BY THE PEOPLE. THE "REBELS" WERE CIA-TRAINED MERCENARIES, NOT LIBYANS, AND THEY WERE BOMBING WOMEN AND CHILDREN.. GADDAFI WAS A HERO TO HIS PEOPLE. HE MADE GHANDI LOOK LIKE HITLER. NATO DESTROYED EVERYTHING THEY HAD WITH THE MEDIA LYING TO US SAYING HE WAS A BRUTAL DICTATOR. NOTHING COULD BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH. WE'VE BEEN PUNKED ONCE AGAIN BY THE MEDIA.
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Wow, there are no words...
 
Chagos said:
I can.

Germany. Japan. Italy.

Ah, those were the days, eh?

The caveat being of course that all (even Japan of sorts) had some democratic tradition before going insanely totalitarian.

Something that Libya, Iraq and Syria never got around to, alone on not having existed long enough.
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First off, as you said... the caveat, they had at least a democratic tradition before going nuts.... well as "democratic" as it could be back then.

Secondly the "existed" long enough is a bit... inaccurate. Iraq has existed for thousands of years in one form or another. Also Syria has existed in different formats, usually under others rule.. same with Libya.... far far far longer than Germany or Italy (in their current forms)... just a bit of historical nit-picking.
 
PeteEU said:
First off, as you said... the caveat, they had at least a democratic tradition before going nuts.... well as "democratic" as it could be back then.

Secondly the "existed" long enough is a bit... inaccurate. Iraq has existed for thousands of years in one form or another. Also Syria has existed in different formats, usually under others rule.. same with Libya.... far far far longer than Germany or Italy (in their current forms)... just a bit of historical nit-picking.
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Yeah well, since we're nitpicking:mrgreen:..................

...................let's stick to what you yourself cite as "in current form".

In that "existing democratic conditions" before the onset of totalitarianism (to then be re-instated by "foreign" overthrow) is hardly something applicable to Iraq, Syria and Libya. None of those having had any prior democratic traditions, however brief, at all.

Nor, in their current form, having existed long enough to ever develop them.
 
sKiTzo said:
My god - what does it take to get people to see the light?
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Well, for you to see it, I'd suggest acquisition of a VERY BIG and VERY POWERFUL flashlight

THERE WAS NO CIVIL WAR.
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and from here on I've snipped the rest on account of it constituting nothing more than what can only be described as rambling.

Actually, to return to a question you posed previously, Conspiracy Theories would have been the more suitable sub-forum for all of this.

P.S. You ever actually been to Libya?
 
TheGoverness said:
Wow, there are no words...
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How do you mean that? Do you mean there are no words with which to counter the video I posted that proves beyond any inkling of a doubt that what I'm saying is true? You would be correct.

Or do you mean there are no words to describe you and anyone else who doesn't watch the video and think they're going to have something meaningful to say about it. If that's the case then you're wrong because there are so many words: gullible, pliable, easily manipulated, dangerously ignorant, treacherously irresponsible... shall I go on?
 
sKiTzo said:
How do you mean that? Do you mean there are no words with which to counter the video I posted that proves beyond any inkling of a doubt that what I'm saying is true? You would be correct.

Or do you mean there are no words to describe you and anyone else who doesn't watch the video and think they're going to have something meaningful to say about it. If that's the case then you're wrong because there are so many words: gullible, pliable, easily manipulated, dangerously ignorant, treacherously irresponsible... shall I go on?
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I don't debate with unreasonable conspiracy theorists like yourself. I've done that before, and I was nearly on the verge of tearing my hair out by the end of it.

Tootles. [emoji8]
 
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Chagos said:
Well, for you to see it, I'd suggest acquisition of a VERY BIG and VERY POWERFUL flashlight

and from here on I've snipped the rest on account of it constituting nothing more than what can only be described as rambling.

Actually, to return to a question you posed previously, Conspiracy Theories would have been the more suitable sub-forum for all of this.

P.S. You ever actually been to Libya?
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Go watch the video I posted. You didn't watch it. You're still going off of what the media told you.
 
TheGoverness said:
I don't debate with unreasonable conspiracy theorists like yourself. I've done that before, and I was nearly on the verge of tearing my hair our by the end of it. [emoji8]
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Unreasonable? I'm one of the very few on DP who debates in true form - by introducing an issue and posting evidence, which in this case happens to be extremely overwhelming. You didn't bother to review the evidence and you posted a comment about it. Someone who knows how to debate would post information that refutes along with their comment. You can't properly refute it. You don't debate because you know I'll shred you like hash browns.
 
sKiTzo said:
Go watch the video I posted. You didn't watch it. You're still going off of what the media told you.
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I NEVER bother with the CT forum.

You bringing it into here is not going to change that.
 
Exquisitor said:
Gaddafi is dead because he killed Americans and America remembered it unlike Asad who did not threaten or kill Americans.
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There is no evidence he was part of that. He did not get justice, plus, it was so many years ago.

He did good for his people. Except for the rebels wanting Sharia Law, he treated the people good.

We interfered in an internal matter of law and order, taking out Qaddafi's defense against the terrorist rebels taking the country.

It was a big mistake helping the terrorists take Libya.

Obama, Hillary, et. al. should be on trial for war crimes.

Just look at the aftermath!
 
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