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Why is US trying to dethrone Assad but seem to be A okay with Kim Jong?

I don't get it, if Assad is bad for whatever reason and we are attempting to take him down, why does Kim Jong get a free pass? :confused:

Simply because Jong Il is the fruitcake that is out isolated next to China on the other side of the world and away from Israel and from our oil supply.

Nobody cares about the North Korean people. They are all his slaves. They jump when he wants them to jump. They cry when he wants them to cry for the cameras.

They are China's problem, not the USA's.

A more significant question to ask would be why do we even care about Israel?

The answer is because Harry Truman decided they are a powerful political influence within the USA and cannot therefore be ignored by the Democrat Party. Therefore the GOP is also driven for the same reasons.
 
Nuclear weapons, plus within the region we have South Korea and Japan as allies who would get involved. It would also probably escalate things with the Chinese.

North Korea has nukes... and is too strong...Syria is weak, Assad has weaknesses...

Any evil country... if they were weak and worth it to take down... they would...The U.S. would take out North Korea in a heartbeat if it were possible without the risk of massive amount of casualties and political ramifications.

it's all about opportunity.

While I would not agree that North Korea is strong, I do agree that there are political ramifications to just taking them down. If that ever happens...it will be from North Korea being stupid enough to go for blood. Then we will have a legitimate reason to take them down. A combination of ground forces and cruise missiles would easily get the job done.

https://www.military1.com/all/artic...litary-compared-with-the-next-strongest-power

This article indicates that US Military force could be more than 1000 times the size of the next strongest nation. So that means nothing then? :shock:

I would think if the US wanted to take someone out it could with no problem with just brute force. Basically the US cant do anything because of the possible nuclear war that would start? If you hit a target hard, fast, and efficiently, which the US should be capable of doing, no nukes would have to be used and it would be over before the enemy knew it. I would think anyway. Iv'e played lots of command a conquer in my day :mrgreen:

Political ramifications with China... and there is risk of mass casualties. Just the fact that North Korea has Nukes means there is a risk of mass casualties... and they can shoot missiles directly into Seoul if there is any kind of misstep.

Assad does not have that associated risk... worst they had was firing chemical weapons at their own civilians, and well, they already did that.

Yep. The nukes, primitive as they are in North Korea would be a problem. However if the moron dictator decides to start something on his own, he will likely resort to using them. We would have to take him out. If it remains a conventional war, mass innocent casualties on both sides can be avoided. If he uses nukes. One allied nuclear sub can finish off North Korea in a matter of minutes.

North Korea doesn't get a "free pass." They're subject to a wide variety of sanctions.

If you mean "why don't we bomb or invade North Korea?" the answer is because a) we already tried to take NK by force in the 1950s and it didn't work, and b) if we tried today, NK would vaporize Seoul instantaneously.

NK doesn't need nukes to depopulate Seoul, they have enough field artillery units that can reach Seoul to do the job with ease. There are a LOT of these units and they spread out in hardened positions, making them very tough to take out. We could take out most of these artillery units, but not all of them. If missed half a dozen or so, the toll on the people of Seoul would be horrific. These units are armed with chem weapons and are designed with one thing in mind - to kill Seoul.
 
Only if you're completely ignorant and want to believe the absolute worst about the US.

Where does the USofA interfere and try to manage more than any other area on the globe?

Africa?
South America?
Central America?
Asia?
-or-

Middle East?
 
Political ramifications with China... and there is risk of mass casualties. Just the fact that North Korea has Nukes means there is a risk of mass casualties... and they can shoot missiles directly into Seoul if there is any kind of misstep.

Assad does not have that associated risk... worst they had was firing chemical weapons at their own civilians, and well, they already did that.

So we leave North Korea alone because Russia and China would come to their aid in full force? Why, what does North Korea offer them that makes it worth it? I understand if the US is simply trying to avoid an all out major war. North Korea's national GDP is showing to be about 12.3 billion, that's peanuts compared to China and Russia. Sure Kim has nukes, but if you get him before he has a chance to use the nukes then the nukes will be worthless. If someone breaks into a person's house, and that person's shotgun is locked in a safe and not quickly attainable, then it becomes useless. Simplified example i know but isn't that close to the situation?

What does South Korea have to do with it? Are you saying they would bomb South Korea out of aggression towards the US indiscriminately?

One thing that you have said which has been correct.

Bit of a ridiculous comparison, comparing a country which stops the spread of religion by force and has around 2 million people in forced labor camps compared with the Syrian government which has a secular government which secures religious freedoms...

Why does North Korea's Allies allow Kim to force millions of people into labor camps and be virtual prisoners in their own home? Also if Assad is Allied with Russia and China, North Korea etc...why aren't they (China and North Korea)helping now? Unless they are supporting only financially.

Yes indeedy now. That is what Rumsfeld said when we decided to take out Saddam and Iraq. How'd that work out. It was named "Shock and Awe," don't ya' know? Apparently you don't. Bush the dim son appeared on an Aircraft Carrier with a super-sized sign in that background that said 'Mission Accomplished." Of course, ten years later and the war just keeps on keepin' on, don't ya' know? Iraq and Afghanistan have been two wars waged on the credit card and the current bill is about $4 trillion. Chump change or disaster? So, how much would it cost to dethrone Kim Jong Un? How much to do Assad? Is this really about money? Follow the money!

I did not know about "shock and awe", so apparently that failed. Has the US ever successfully brought democracy to a major Nation via war? And everything was just hunky dory thereafter?

Additionally, iv'e seen some interviews and a couple documentaries about Bashar Al-Assad and he seems like a reasonable person, he says he has the support of his people of about 24 million. The rebels, which he labels as terrorist(which appears to be a fair assessment), are less than 1 million, looks like public support to me. I did however see a number of posters throughout the different cities with his face on it, which usually isn't a good sign. Is he actually even a problem? I don't see the problem...at least his people are free to come and go as they please and practice whatever religion they want. I thought that was what the US was about?

If the US is interfering on a moral bases, which it usually claims, then i don't see how North Korea gets a pass regardless of its Allies. It looks like the US Military has become "too big to fail", whats the point of having 1000 times the size of next largest Military if it's not going to use it effectively and efficiently. I mean 1000 x anything is more than significant, unless the majority of that military power is defensive. Eh...i'm all over the place but something just doesn't smell right. :confused:
 
I don't get it, if Assad is bad for whatever reason and we are attempting to take him down, why does Kim Jong get a free pass? :confused:

he's not a problem for a major oil exporting nation, and he's still untouchable because China protects him. war with China would be extraordinarily bad for the economy and for human existence in general. so Kim gets a pass, and the US and other foreign powers are expected to do what Saudi Arabia should be doing in the Middle East because Saudi Arabia has a lot of oil. in a nutshell, that's how it is.
 
The other argument as to why Lil' Kim "gets a pass" is because outside of humanitarian concerns for the people of the DPRK, there's no real pressing need to take him out. Sure, every so often the NK government makes a show out of a rocket that splashes down 30 feet away, but I've seen little that shows the NK regime is suicidal. They're prevented from being a huge destabilizing force in the region mainly by China.

Now, if the DPRK stepped up the sabre-rattling to anything resembling a credible threat of attack on South Korea or Japan, I could easily see that tune changing.

Humanitarian concerns seems to be the main reason the US acts, at least that's whats communicated to the people. I don't recall the President ever using any reason other then humanitarian ones to act militarily. Picking and choosing isn't cool, also if Syria is so much easier than North Korea, why is it taking so long? Why are they *****footing around instead of being more direct and getting the job done?
 
North Korea doesn't get a "free pass." They're subject to a wide variety of sanctions.

If you mean "why don't we bomb or invade North Korea?" the answer is because a) we already tried to take NK by force in the 1950s and it didn't work, and b) if we tried today, NK would vaporize Seoul instantaneously.

How can Kim Vaporize South Korea if we vaporize his regime first? Our Military technology and capabilities are far more evolved now.
 
Simply because Jong Il is the fruitcake that is out isolated next to China on the other side of the world and away from Israel and from our oil supply.

Nobody cares about the North Korean people. They are all his slaves. They jump when he wants them to jump. They cry when he wants them to cry for the cameras.

They are China's problem, not the USA's.

A more significant question to ask would be why do we even care about Israel?

The answer is because Harry Truman decided they are a powerful political influence within the USA and cannot therefore be ignored by the Democrat Party. Therefore the GOP is also driven for the same reasons.

Is that not a form of terrorism? Last time i checked the US and its allies aim to defeat and destroy terror wherever it's happening. I don't know whats up with Israel either, is that not our problem also? I know the US has many rich Jewish people who basically own all things related to entertainment and mass media, not sure if that makes a difference or not.
 
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How can Kim Vaporize South Korea if we vaporize his regime first? Our Military technology and capabilities are far more evolved now.

How many innocent people are you willing to kill to affect a regime change? And how does that make you any better than Kim?
 
Is that not a form of terrorism? Last time i checked the US and its allies aim to defeat and destroy terror wherever it's happening.

Well with Big Red China next door, I don't think it is polite to jump into the middle of THEIR neighborhood and make a mess.

Same is true of Eastern Europe and Russia -- explains why Putin is all up in arms about Ukraine and NATO.
 
How can Kim Vaporize South Korea if we vaporize his regime first? Our Military technology and capabilities are far more evolved now.

We (the USA) vaporized Hiroshima and Nagasaki (mostly for experimental scientific reasons) and we have stood condemned for it ever since.

I suppose everyone is hoping that the minions in N.Korea will somehow mobilize, grow balls, and oust KJI themselves, like the US did in 1776 to the king of England.

One can only hope.
 
How many innocent people are you willing to kill to affect a regime change? And how does that make you any better than Kim?

Innocents??? He lives in a flipping Palace with his minions. He is not embedded with the rest of the general innocent population. Don't want to kill any innocents but he is reportedly already doing so by the millions, of his own people. Also there are worse things than dying, like living a lifetime as a slave.

House.jpg

There it is. I see no innocents.
 

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I don't get it, if Assad is bad for whatever reason and we are attempting to take him down, why does Kim Jong get a free pass? :confused:

We call Bashar al-Assad in Syria a "bad guy" because of his relations to Russia and a few others, we overlook the atrocities in Saudi Arabia because we get something out of that deal, we called Saddam Hussein a "bad guy" even though we used to help him when he fought Iran, we do not go after North Korea as it would cause a major headache and we might be facing a leader in Kim Jong-un that is willing to use a nuclear response (at least against South Korea but perhaps others in the region as well.)

Welcome to our confusing and hypocritical foreign policy that tends to manufacture many more headaches than it cures.

Any other questions?

Yeah, that.

The question that I'd ask is why is it taking down Saddam such a wrong / bad thing to do, where as bringing down Assad, Gheddafi and Mubarak were / are good things to do?

Does it matter who's in the White House? You think?
 
Well with Big Red China next door, I don't think it is polite to jump into the middle of THEIR neighborhood and make a mess.

Same is true of Eastern Europe and Russia -- explains why Putin is all up in arms about Ukraine and NATO.

Under normal circumstances i would agree with you, but we are talking about a Nation of people that are literally slaves and prisoners in their own land for a lifetime by the millions. So basically were picking on Syria because they are a easier target (fair enough), but the US will not interfere with Kim because it would be too hard? Syria and the Assad regime is spreading religious and personal freedom, and doesn't enslave its people. What is the problem? Syria inst ISIS, Syria is attacking out of defense, they want peace (24 million strong). This effort seems stupid and illogical on the part of the US.
 
Yeah, that.

The question that I'd ask is why is it taking down Saddam such a wrong / bad thing to do, where as bringing down Assad, Gheddafi and Mubarak were / are good things to do?

Does it matter who's in the White House? You think?

Exactly, lets say the US is successful in removing Assad, getting him to step down somehow (which he wont, he said he was born in Syria and he will die in Syria), what then? Who's to say the next guy will be any better? Another revolution would just be born against the new guy and it would start all over again.
 
I don't get it, if Assad is bad for whatever reason and we are attempting to take him down, why does Kim Jong get a free pass? :confused:

If there was an armed movement against him then they probably would support it. It would be more sensible to ask why Assad was supported by the west throughout the early two thousands whereas North Korea has always been treated with hostility.
 
Under normal circumstances i would agree with you, but we are talking about a Nation of people that are literally slaves and prisoners in their own land for a lifetime by the millions. So basically were picking on Syria because they are a easier target (fair enough), but the US will not interfere with Kim because it would be too hard? Syria and the Assad regime is spreading religious and personal freedom, and doesn't enslave its people. What is the problem? Syria inst ISIS, Syria is attacking out of defense, they want peace (24 million strong). This effort seems stupid and illogical on the part of the US.

So you think the bleeding heart issue is worth a world war against China?

I don't believe you are thinking too good.

We (the USA) have been in 2 world wars.

WW1 was all about the Kaiser in Germany sinking American shipping and killing Americans.

WW2 was all about Tojo telling Yamamoto to attack and bomb Pearl Harbor and killing Americans.

How many Americans are dying over N.Korea ???

(The answer is NONE.)
 
The other argument as to why Lil' Kim "gets a pass" is because outside of humanitarian concerns for the people of the DPRK, there's no real pressing need to take him out. Sure, every so often the NK government makes a show out of a rocket that splashes down 30 feet away, but I've seen little that shows the NK regime is suicidal. They're prevented from being a huge destabilizing force in the region mainly by China.

Now, if the DPRK stepped up the sabre-rattling to anything resembling a credible threat of attack on South Korea or Japan, I could easily see that tune changing.

I would agree if it was not for the fact that North Korea is into exporting their crude nuclear technology to dangerous homicidal nations like Iran.
 
Assad is a bigger evil than Saudi Arabia because the propaganda tells you that Assad is more evil. Chump.

What does the propaganda say to you?
 
North Korea doesn't get a "free pass." They're subject to a wide variety of sanctions.

If you mean "why don't we bomb or invade North Korea?" the answer is because a) we already tried to take NK by force in the 1950s and it didn't work, and b) if we tried today, NK would vaporize Seoul instantaneously.

North Korea gets a pass only because they are very vulnerable to sanctions. Iraq on the otherhand was in a position to hold out much longer due to oil wealth.
 
Yeah, that.

The question that I'd ask is why is it taking down Saddam such a wrong / bad thing to do, where as bringing down Assad, Gheddafi and Mubarak were / are good things to do?

Does it matter who's in the White House? You think?

It would be foolish to rule it out, who is in the White House will impact foreign policy and perception of the leaders of other nations to some degree. The flip side of that coin is Obama became the 4th President in a row to drop a bomb on Iraq for one reason or another. Which goes beyond Saddam's era of reign making me question both costs and impact of our decisions.

Our issue is handling a very hypocritical condition where we deem one dictatorship as a problem based on some listed reason(s,) but ignore the actions of other dictatorships when it suits our interests. Worse, when we decide that we can live with less than ideal world leaders.

The question then becomes are we really basing our decisions on who is a "bad guy" on some legitimate concern over human rights and "freedoms" *or* are we basing our concerns over when a dictatorship no longer is to our benefit.

Like, Saddam who we not only somewhat helped into power but also in his fight with neighboring Iran. Or, like helping the Mujahideen "rebels" when they fought the invading Russians, only later for some of them to end up as members of everyone from Al-Qaeda to the Taliban. Or, like Mubarak who was in control of Egypt during the time that the US provided some $18 billion in military aid. Making Egypt the second largest non-NATO recipient of U.S. military aid after Israel. When we call these guys "bad guys" then becomes very suspect.

It is then easy to argue we are disliked and distrusted by a good third of the planet because of our hypocritical and confusing foreign policy that both creates problems but also questionably "solves" a problem. The world probably is better off without Saddam, or Mubarak, or Gaddafi, or a dozen ideological lunatics.

What the issue becomes is our determination on when a dictatorship is a problem vs. other times we typically ignore the problem or even help them. Saudi Arabia is the best example of that mentality of deciding who is acceptable and who is not. We get plenty out of that deal, and we generally ignore their oppressive and cruel reign of power over their people. They behead more people than Iran, but Iran is the problem? We sure? Perhaps a close second is Saddam himself whom we once supported then later overthrew. Syria and al-Assad is in the mix as well who we call a problem because of their relationship to Putin. al-Assad really all that worse than these other lunatics we get in bed with?

I simply no longer trust these decisions being made, costing military lives and trillions of dollars when objectively looking at all of our history for and involvement in this area of the planet. It is also easy to argue the unrest across the expanded region with plenty of nations our hands were involved in. And like many other subjects, the history books will not be too kind to Bush 43 for the reasons and costs to remove Saddam only to see Iraq become the disaster that it is today allowing for another group of opportunity to capitalize... ISIS (as an example.) I am not sure that the history books will be all that kind to our Nobel Peace Prize winning Obama either.

I no longer see these actions as "good things" when I see the results (in every meaning of the word.) I am not asking for isolationism, just a little rational consideration for what has happened to date and honestly what we have *not* solved.
 
So you think the bleeding heart issue is worth a world war against China?

I don't believe you are thinking too good.

We (the USA) have been in 2 world wars.

WW1 was all about the Kaiser in Germany sinking American shipping and killing Americans.

WW2 was all about Tojo telling Yamamoto to attack and bomb Pearl Harbor and killing Americans.

How many Americans are dying over N.Korea ???

(The answer is NONE.)

No i don't think the bleeding heart issue is worth millions of lives. I don't really understand why China even gives AF about North Korea, what is the bond? 13 billion GDP, an enslaved unhappy population, and a psycho leader...very attractive.

How many Americans are dying over Syria? The answer is virtually none. Kim trumps Assad in every way when it comes to "evilness".


We are funding groups to take down Syria, and we are supposedly fighting ISIS, meanwhile ISIS seems to have no bounds, and Russia is working with France, who is a US ally, but Russia backs Assad, a man who seems to uphold American Values, this is a cluster.

I'm not suggesting that the world needs more war, quite the opposite actually, what i am asking though is why are we trying to remove Assad? Why are we willing to risk American lives to remove a man who upholds American values? This blows my mind. I would even go as far as to ask why not help Assad fortify his position and Nation? Then collectively defeat ISIS, problem solved.
 
If there was an armed movement against him then they probably would support it. It would be more sensible to ask why Assad was supported by the west throughout the early two thousands whereas North Korea has always been treated with hostility.

If i understand you correctly, isn't it obvious why North Korea has been treated with hostility? If Assad was supported by the west throughout the early 2000s ( i didn't know that) then what changed?
 
No i don't think the bleeding heart issue is worth millions of lives. I don't really understand why China even gives AF about North Korea, what is the bond? 13 billion GDP, an enslaved unhappy population, and a psycho leader...very attractive.

How many Americans are dying over Syria? The answer is virtually none. Kim trumps Assad in every way when it comes to "evilness".


We are funding groups to take down Syria, and we are supposedly fighting ISIS, meanwhile ISIS seems to have no bounds, and Russia is working with France, who is a US ally, but Russia backs Assad, a man who seems to uphold American Values, this is a cluster.

I'm not suggesting that the world needs more war, quite the opposite actually, what i am asking though is why are we trying to remove Assad? Why are we willing to risk American lives to remove a man who upholds American values? This blows my mind. I would even go as far as to ask why not help Assad fortify his position and Nation? Then collectively defeat ISIS, problem solved.

My personal view is that removing Assad would be as foolish as removing Saddam was.

Anyway Putin will see to it that Assad is not removed. So that game is over with anyway.
 
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