Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

if it is contradictory to existing laws...
then any "treaty" would be null and void.

Originally Posted by Infinite Chaos

Carrying on with conjecture..

Do you not think the Bolshevik revolution would have carried on regardless? There were plenty of homegrown radicals and the Imperial rule was deeply unpopular, I think the seeds had already been sown.

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Forgive me for not getting back to you sooner. I lost track of where this thread was and just now found it.

I think its possible that Karensky's government would have limped on until forced by Germany to make peace. Germany would have imposed a very severe settlement on Russia and I think its probable that Karensky's government would have fallen as a result. Since the Bolsheviks were not a even a flyspeck on the Russian political scene at this time, especially without Lenin, I doubt they would inherit the pieces. It is far more likely that the SRs, the Social Revolutionaries who were partners in Karensky's government would take control. I'm sure some right wing grouping of exTsarist officers would seek to overthrow the a left oriented SR government at this point. How that would end is anyone's guess.



I didn't posit in my post that Germany would win World War One if the US stayed out. I doubt if they could force a clean victory over the Allies. If the US stayed out I think the war would have ended in 1917 soon after Russia fell to the Germans by negotiation between the Central Powers and the Allies. Germany would have deprived France of its iron and coal regions and taken a slice of Belgium. France would be done as a world power but Britain, Holland and the US would be basically unimpaired and thus able to defend their imperial interests in the Fasr East against Japanese aggression. An entertaining conjecture

Originally Posted by GySgt

But it's because we don't give a crap about anybody else that we are in the position that we are in today. We have been stumbling around for decades lost in a world that we inherited quite abruptly after WWII and only had the European model of organization to call on for guidance. We literally had no idea what to do. Given the magnitude of our burden, it's amazing we made so few mistakes. When people frown on the very few Pinochets there were during that period and declare us monsters, they are refusing to acknowledge the tremendous behaviors of imperialism that went on before us by our friends. However, we did begin propping up those dictators that would stand in our corner and deny the Soviets and we practiced a behavior that was beneath us.

- Conducting business with tyrants just to hold back the prospect of efficient war has not been in our best interests.

- Celebrating our basic human rights while those business partners abused and oppressed their populations has not been in our best interests.


Instead of dealing with our obvious problems, we have ignored them in a hopes that they will go away. Also, you have to appreciate what our role has been in the last 250 years. Do you realize that we have seen, destroyed or aided in destroying eleven different empires in every single culture on earth? We are the last empire standing; only ours is an empire of culture and economics. Since this culture is largely based on the basic human rights principles of freedom, it has "infected" those societies that either want nothing to do with it or struggle to keep their people from it. Also, remember all thos empires that have been crushed? That's means hundreds of millions of people around the globe that hate us for ruining their parties. Our celebration of capitalism has widened the gap between successful nations and failing nations and this is only going to get wider.

Consider this...Despite the horrible behaviors of the Soviets and Russians for centuries upon ethnic people, despite the overwhelming prosperous atmosphere our nation has brought to the world, and despite our thirst for knowledge and understanding in the general society,.....we are hated so? This makes no sense when one actually looks at what has occurred. The Soviets religiously oppressed hundreds of millions of Muslims, yet we are hated because we have a base in Saudi? We are criticized for our part in the Cold War that saw certain dictators celebrated, yet we are hated bexcause we took one of those mistakes out? The entire free world has us to thank daily for what we do everywhere, yet we are hated for staring down obvious enemies of humanity and civil rights in different regions? This all makes no sense to me.

I simply don't understand how people can praise "globalization," yet refuse to acknowledge that this means dealing with the tyrants one way or another. Our problem is that we can't seem to decide how to be consistant while continuing our lifestyles and securities.

We better start caring. We have little problems as compared to what is festering all around us and it is starting to infect us.

Originally Posted by Bodhisattva

Any laws that are contradictory to existing laws...

Perhaps they "should" say so...
But that part is not expressed in the US Constitution...