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Iran says Obama ‘lacks serious will in fighting terrorism in Iraq’.....

Ockham said:
We're limited on the interwebz to showing by providing sources (primarily). It's no secret that Obama is no leader. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone arguing a point to voluntarily provide contradicting sources ... the point of debate is not to undermine your argument but to support the argument and points your trying to make.
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Again, I'm not saying Obama IS a good leader. I'm just saying that not EVERY SINGLE thing he has done is bad. When someone takes that absolute route, they look like partisan hacks. Even I didn't like GWB but I can acknowledge some things he did was good.

But hey if someone wants to look like a partisan hack and say Obama hasn't done ANYTHING good, then that's on them.
 
humbolt said:
School us all a little on exactly what you think Obama could do better, with regard to Iraq in particular.
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He has, he is staying out of it military wise so far. Something we should have done long ago.

Let Iran and the surrounding countries handle it. The U.S. is not a good nation builder on its own. Even the government the U.S. setup in Iraq was becoming corrupt.
 
TheNextEra said:
He has, he is staying out of it military wise so far. Something we should have done long ago.

Let Iran and the surrounding countries handle it. The U.S. is not a good nation builder on its own. Even the government the U.S. setup in Iraq was becoming corrupt.
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So he's doing it just right, then? With regard to Iraq?
 
TheNextEra said:
And I'm telling YOU if you want it, YOU start it. Bottomline, you put YOUR money where your mouth is. You made the claim, YOU set it up.



I know politics, its you who likes jto just post partisan hackery comments. I've seen better writing from 6th graders.
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I already told you don't come back with that BS and I don't have to prove a negative. I called you on yours.

As usual you got nothing.....plus got schooled. Although you should at least take Poly Sci 101 so you have the basics down. Its simple if you don't know what you are talking about and not asking questions.

Then don't talk about what you don't know.
 
TheNextEra said:
Again, I'm not saying Obama IS a good leader. I'm just saying that not EVERY SINGLE thing he has done is bad.
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The same could be said for Nixon but that didn't change Watergate... No not everything he's done has been bad. Then again, to many the good he's done has been minimal and the scandalous issues, whether one believes them valid or not, are continuing to mount.

TheNextEra said:
When someone takes that absolute route, they look like partisan hacks. Even I didn't like GWB but I can acknowledge some things he did was good.
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First let's just think about that for a second. We are all partisan. We are all biased. Expecting someone to take a wholly unbiased and non partisan view is not a good expectation. Granted, there are degrees but again, when did you ever post a link that undermines your position you were arguing? Never... neither do I. So the charge of cherry picking may be true but that's how debates work.


TheNextEra said:
But hey if someone wants to look like a partisan hack and say Obama hasn't done ANYTHING good, then that's on them.
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And there are many on both sides of the isle that do nothing but post ad hominem partisan hackery, with little or no actual substance. The next time I see you in a thread with some of those members, I will ask you to and my expectation is that you will admonish them just as severely.
 
humbolt said:
So he's doing it just right, then? With regard to Iraq?
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Only now, not before. We should have got out long ago. There is a reason Secratary of Defense Dick Cheney said what he did and why under THAT administration they didn't topple Saddam.
 
Ockham said:
The same could be said for Nixon but that didn't change Watergate... No not everything he's done has been bad. Then again, to many the good he's done has been minimal and the scandalous issues, whether one believes them valid or not, are continuing to mount.
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Yes, it doesn't change the outcome of him being a bad president, but it does change the outlook on someone being a partisan hack.

First let's just think about that for a second. We are all partisan. We are all biased. Expecting someone to take a wholly unbiased and non partisan view is not a good expectation. Granted, there are degrees but again, when did you ever post a link that undermines your position you were arguing? Never... neither do I. So the charge of cherry picking may be true but that's how debates work.
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Yes, we are all biased. However, I showed the point that even though I thought GWB was a horrible president I at least acknowledged some good things he has done. There is no true debate here in most of the posts and you know.

And there are many on both sides of the isle that do nothing but post ad hominem partisan hackery, with little or no actual substance. The next time I see you in a thread with some of those members, I will ask you to and my expectation is that you will admonish them just as severely.
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If you point them out, gladly. Several times especially in the anti-gun threads I have done such things. I have also done it in threads where people have said Obama has done NO wrong in regards to health care. I look at BOTH sides and NEITHER side is clean.
 
MMC said:
I already told you don't come back with that BS and I don't have to prove a negative. I called you on yours.

As usual you got nothing.....plus got schooled. Although you should at least take Poly Sci 101 so you have the basics down. Its simple if you don't know what you are talking about and not asking questions.

Then don't talk about what you don't know.
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And I TOLD you to start the thread, its clear you are afraid. You have been schooled all through this thread and have shown your comments are nothing but partisan hackery. Please take a political class before coming back!
 
TheNextEra said:
Yes, we are all biased. However, I showed the point that even though I thought GWB was a horrible president I at least acknowledged some good things he has done. There is no true debate here in most of the posts and you know.
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It's not a good expectation that in heated political debates the "good" things will be mentioned by anyone, of any political persuasion.


TheNextEra said:
If you point them out, gladly. Several times especially in the anti-gun threads I have done such things. I have also done it in threads where people have said Obama has done NO wrong in regards to health care. I look at BOTH sides and NEITHER side is clean.
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By having to have me point them out shows your own bias. If you're expecting others to not be partisan hacks then you should seek out those same partisan hacks regardless of your personal political bias and admonish them yourself. You don't.
 
TheNextEra said:
Only now, not before. We should have got out long ago. There is a reason Secratary of Defense Dick Cheney said what he did and why under THAT administration they didn't topple Saddam.
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So, exactly what is it with regard to Iraq Obama could do or could have done better?
 
MMC said:
Iran says they called the US for Air Stirkes and we didn't answer the Call. So now it begins.....even before Iran is even out and engaging the Terrorists. This of course while in Nuke talks too. What say ye?


US President Barack Obama lacks “serious will” to combat terrorism, a top Iranian official said Friday after an Iraqi appeal for American airstrikes went unanswered. Deputy Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdollahian’s comments followed a statement from Obama on the Iraq crisis in which he pledged to send military advisors to Baghdad but stopped short of further action at this stage.

“Delaying the fight against terrorism and ISIL and putting conditions on it have fuelled suspicions and doubts about the United States’ objectives in Iraq,” Abdollahian said, according to the state broadcaster’s website. “Obama’s comments show the White House lacks serious will in fighting terrorism in Iraq and the region,” he added.

Instead of focusing on fighting terrorism and national unity and strengthening of government institutions, the US is spreading sectarianism,” he said.....snip~

Iran says Obama ‘lacks serious will in fighting terrorism in Iraq’
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Iran seems to want things both ways. First, it wants to criticize perceived U.S. weakness. Second, it rejects any U.S. intervention (Iran rejects U.S. action in Iraq, ISIL tightens Syria border grip | Reuters).

In any case, Iran isn't in a strong position to lecture the United States. It bears part of the blame for Iraq's Shia-centric policies that helped create a fertile environment for insurgency and it hasn't exactly played a stabilizing role in the region.
 
TheNextEra said:
And I TOLD you to start the thread, its clear you are afraid. You have been schooled all through this thread and have shown your comments are nothing but partisan hackery. Please take a political class before coming back!
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You said I didn't know anything. Now Don't sit here and play head-games either put your money where your mouth is or walk it off. Otherwise like always you aint talking about nothin'


Nah I don't think so.....I already directed you about going to take a class. As you wouldn't know what real a partisan hack was if it was standing in front of your face.

That's just your partisanship showing as you can't stand to have anything pointed out about BO. Also you can't stand the fact that BO just keeps screwing up and its like one long bad dream that just wont end and go away. That everyday.....you have to come and defend BO. :lamo
 
Ockham said:
It's not a good expectation that in heated political debates the "good" things will be mentioned by anyone, of any political persuasion.
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And then that just shows partisan hackery.

By having to have me point them out shows your own bias. If you're expecting others to not be partisan hacks then you should seek out those same partisan hacks regardless of your personal political bias and admonish them yourself. You don't.
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I don't read EVERY single thread EVERY single day. I point them out when I see them. I gave examples even of when I do.
 
MMC said:
You said I didn't know anything. Now Don't sit here and play head-games either put your money where your mouth is or walk it off. Otherwise like always you aint talking about nothin'
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ACtually you said that about me FIRST. So YOU satart the thread and put your money where your mouth is.

Nah I don't think so.....I already directed you about going to take a class. As you wouldn't know what real a partisan hack was if it was standing in front of your face.

That's just your partisanship showing as you can't stand to have anything pointed out about BO. Also you can't stand the fact that BO just keeps screwing up and its like one long bad dream that just wont end and go away. That everyday.....you have to come and defend BO. :lamo
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Hmmm let's see, I've pointed out good and bad things about Obama. Sorry, but YOUR comments are partisan hackery. Plain and simple.

I can show posts where I have criticized Obama, care to show where you have shown good points about Obama? Didn't think so. You have been schooled again and shown your comments are partisan hackery AGAIN. You really need to take a political class.
 
humbolt said:
So, exactly what is it with regard to Iraq Obama could do or could have done better?
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I just said it. Get out of Iraq sooner. The sooner the U.s. gets out of the M.E. business, the sooner they will stabalize things themselves. Iran does NOT want Al-Qaeda in Iraq. It is better THEY handle it.
 
donsutherland1 said:
Iran seems to want things both ways. First, it wants to criticize perceived U.S. weakness. Second, it rejects any U.S. intervention (Iran rejects U.S. action in Iraq, ISIL tightens Syria border grip | Reuters).

In any case, Iran isn't in a strong position to lecture the United States. It bears part of the blame for Iraq's Shia-centric policies that helped create a fertile environment for insurgency and it hasn't exactly played a stabilizing role in the region.
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Mornin DS. :2wave: I see ya picked up that piece from Reuters. Like I said from the beginning Iran can't be trusted. Moreover.....they talk a good game. Like I said earlier in this thread another. There is no footage of them taking on ISIL in Iraq. Iran talks and talks and yes you are correct with them bearing that blame. The Quds general is the same who was stirring things up in Iraq against us back then.

He even visited the green zone.....none knew until after the fact.
 
TheNextEra said:
ACtually you said that about me FIRST. So YOU satart the thread and put your money where your mouth is.




Hmmm let's see, I've pointed out good and bad things about Obama. Sorry, but YOUR comments are partisan hackery. Plain and simple.

I can show posts where I have criticized Obama, care to show where you have shown good points about Obama? Didn't think so. You have been schooled again and shown your comments are partisan hackery AGAIN. You really need to take a political class.
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Oh, okay I see you just want to have the Last word rather than step up to your weight.

So by all means.


th
 
MMC said:
Iran says they called the US for Air Stirkes and we didn't answer the Call. So now it begins.....even before Iran is even out and engaging the Terrorists. This of course while in Nuke talks too. What say ye?

US President Barack Obama lacks “serious will” to combat terrorism, a top Iranian official said Friday after an Iraqi appeal for American airstrikes went unanswered. Deputy Foreign Minister Hossein Amir Abdollahian’s comments followed a statement from Obama on the Iraq crisis in which he pledged to send military advisors to Baghdad but stopped short of further action at this stage.

“Delaying the fight against terrorism and ISIL and putting conditions on it have fuelled suspicions and doubts about the United States’ objectives in Iraq,” Abdollahian said, according to the state broadcaster’s website. “Obama’s comments show the White House lacks serious will in fighting terrorism in Iraq and the region,” he added.

Instead of focusing on fighting terrorism and national unity and strengthening of government institutions, the US is spreading sectarianism,” he said.....snip~

Iran says Obama ‘lacks serious will in fighting terrorism in Iraq’
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If our intelligence didn't know this was going to happen in Iraq, I'll eat my hat. They knew. There's a strategy going on here, although I don't know what it is. I've long ago decided that our country has Plans A, B, C and D in place for every contingency. And most certainly Iraq being over-run came as absolutely no surprise.

The question is, "What's the end game?" To think that all we are is reactionary is a fool's position. We are strategists.
 
MMC said:
Oh, okay I see you just want to have the Last word rather than step up to your weight.

So by all means.
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When all you have is posting pictures, you have already lost. You must have seen YOU made the claim first and are now running away. So be it, I knew you were afraid to put your money where your mouth is.
 
TheNextEra said:
I just said it. Get out of Iraq sooner. The sooner the U.s. gets out of the M.E. business, the sooner they will stabalize things themselves. Iran does NOT want Al-Qaeda in Iraq. It is better THEY handle it.
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There's two schools of thought about that. The school I subscribe to suggests that getting out as precipitously as Obama did, and in such a contrived manner was a mistake that made something like what's happening now there all too likely. Just because one may not agree on our previous engagement there is not justification ignoring the situation as it exists. The fact is that we were involved, and with that involvement comes some responsibility.
 
MaggieD said:
If our intelligence didn't know this was going to happen in Iraq, I'll eat my hat. They knew. There's a strategy going on here, although I don't know what it is. I've long ago decided that our country has Plans A, B, C and D in place for every contingency. And most certainly Iraq being over-run came as absolutely no surprise.

The question is, "What's the end game?" To think that all we are is reactionary is a fool's position. We are strategists.
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Mornin' Maggie
hat.gif
.....Oh BO knew. He knew from what was taking Place in Syria. Make no mistake about that.
 
humbolt said:
There's two schools of thought about that. The school I subscribe to suggests that getting out as precipitously as Obama did, and in such a contrived manner was a mistake that made something like what's happening now there all too likely. Just because one may not agree on our previous engagement there is not justification ignoring the situation as it exists. The fact is that we were involved, and with that involvement comes some responsibility.
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It isn't ignoring the situation exists, it's acknowledging that the U.S. is just getting in the way. We are not good nation builders and toppling Saddam just created a new corrupt government which had people welcoming in militants.

Iran and neighboring countries are better able to handle this because anything the U.S. does is just a recruitment tool for Al-Qeada. We are in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. I for one don't want to be arming people in Iraq that run at a moment's notice and leave behind that SAME equipment to the enemy as well as footing the bill with money and our soldier's lives.
 
TheNextEra said:
It isn't ignoring the situation exists, it's acknowledging that the U.S. is just getting in the way. We are not good nation builders and toppling Saddam just created a new corrupt government which had people welcoming in militants.
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Getting in the way of the partitioning of Iraq? Seems we've gone a long way around to make that possible. BTW, most third world governments are corrupt. Where do you think US monetary aid goes in those countries?

Iran and neighboring countries are better able to handle this because anything the U.S. does is just a recruitment tool for Al-Qeada. We are in a damned if we do, damned if we don't situation. I for one don't want to be arming people in Iraq that run at a moment's notice and leave behind that SAME equipment to the enemy as well as footing the bill with money and our soldier's lives.
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I'm generally not in favor of arming other countries.
 
humbolt said:
Getting in the way of the partitioning of Iraq? Seems we've gone a long way around to make that possible. BTW, most third world governments are corrupt. Where do you think US monetary aid goes in those countries?
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Yes, they are corrupt which just shows how insane it is to keep trying this.

I'm generally not in favor of arming other countries.
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And yet, what do you think we have been doing for decades? This is why our foreign policy has been a failure for decades.
 
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