American Apparel

Catz Part Deux · 07-01-09, 08:34 AM

Probe fingers 1,800 American Apparel workers - Yahoo! News

Quote:

SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) – A U.S. federal probe has found that about a third of American Apparel's factory workers in the Los Angeles area had supplied suspect or invalid records and were not authorized to work in the United States.

The findings, from a January 2008 federal investigation, may deal a blow to the corporation's image as a proponent of immigration reform.

But the company said on Tuesday the potential loss of those 1,800 workers would have no significant impact on its results.

The U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency found that some 1,600 current employees at American Apparel's Los Angeles factories appeared to have gained employment due to "suspect and not valid" eligibility documentation, the company said in a filing.

The probe also found that the employment eligibility of an additional 200 workers could not be verified due to discrepancies, it said.

This story kind of highlights the bind that many employers are in. They can't legally question an employee's documents, because that puts them in a position of possibly discriminating. And, birth certificates are easy to fake. Further, many illegals have stolen identities.

Arch Enemy · 07-01-09, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux

Probe fingers 1,800 American Apparel workers - Yahoo! News

This story kind of highlights the bind that many employers are in. They can't legally question an employee's documents, because that puts them in a position of possibly discriminating. And, birth certificates are easy to fake. Further, many illegals have stolen identities.

I still wanna see Obama's!!!

Sorry,

Had to do it.

I support people who are diligent workers producing and helping this economy roll. If a law denotes that the worker is illegal, then the law needs to be changed. 'Nuff said.

Agnapostate · 07-01-09, 09:07 AM

Labor market segmentation theory of course informs us that forcible containment in the informal (secondary) labor market will ensure "illicit" activity in order to enter the formal (primary) labor market. The reason for identity theft by illegal immigrants is of course the requirement of Social Security numbers for I-9 purposes, which they cannot legally obtain. The solution is obviously to change that, but then what would the tabloidist media have fun with?

Catz Part Deux · 07-01-09, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnapostate

Labor market segmentation theory of course informs us that forcible containment in the informal (secondary) labor market will ensure "illicit" activity in order to enter the formal (primary) labor market. The reason for identity theft by illegal immigrants is of course the requirement of Social Security numbers for I-9 purposes, which they cannot legally obtain. The solution is obviously to change that, but then what would the tabloidist media have fun with?

Could you say that again, in plain english, as simply as possible?

Agnapostate · 07-01-09, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux

Could you say that again, in plain english, as simply as possible?

As put by Aviva Chomsky ("They take our jobs!": and 20 other myths about immigration, Boston, Mass: Beacon Press, 2007), daughter of the thoroughly evil Gnome who hates America but not Allah (

):

Quote:

The primary labor market refers to jobs that are regulated. Workers are protected by laws that establish living wages, health and safety standards, and benefits. Their jobs are long term and secure. Their right to organize unions is accepted and protected by law.

The secondary labor market consists of jobs that are generally not regulated. Wages are low, and working conditions are dangerous and often harmful to workers' health. Not only are the jobs unpleasant and poorly compensated, they are also dead end: there is little or no room for advancement.

There's effectively no possibility for legal entry into the labor market by illegal immigrants because "formal" jobs will require I-9 forms, which will in turn require Social Security numbers. Hence, they're forced to acquire fake Social Security numbers, and although the unused benefits do provide a financial gain for state or federal coffers, numbers that belong to someone else will occasionally be used.

Tucker Case · 07-01-09, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catz Part Deux

Probe fingers 1,800 American Apparel workers

God Damn! That must have been the world's stinkiest finger afterward.

Voidwar · 07-01-09, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnapostate

Hence, they're forced to acquire fake Social Security numbers, and although the unused benefits do provide a financial gain for state or federal coffers, numbers that belong to someone else will occasionally be used.

What a bull**** rationalization.

I wanted your property, so I was forced to break in to your house and take it

They are not "forced" into stealing another person's identity, they choose to steal some American's Identity as part of their illegal immigration and ongoing violation of Immigration Law.

Be sure to forget to mention that they could just go back to their own damn country rather than steal from us.

Arch Enemy · 07-01-09, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

Be sure to forget to mention that they could just go back to their own damn country rather than steal from us.

They could but because of our policies it behooves them to stay.

Agnapostate · 07-01-09, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

What a bull**** rationalization.

I wanted your property, so I was forced to break in to your house and take it

Not quite. That analogy implies conscious and elective robbery of commodities. Illegal immigrants' use of false social security numbers isn't typically intended to "steal" someone else's identity (in fact, it would be irrational for them to do so since it would heighten the risk of detection, capture, and criminal prosecution), and is hardly elective or for the purpose of acquiring commodities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

They are not "forced" into stealing another person's identity, they choose to steal some American's Identity as part of their illegal immigration and ongoing violation of Immigration Law.

We can refer to the coercive elements of capitalist wage labor to address this aspect. There's no physical force used to compel them, but there certainly is power and coercion present that ensures entry into the informal labor market one way or another. As put by David Ellerman:

Quote:

When a robber denies another person's right to make an infinite number of other choices besides losing his money or his life and the denial is backed up by a gun, then this is clearly robbery even though it might be said that the victim making a 'voluntary choice' between his remaining options. When the legal system itself denies the natural rights of working people in the name of the prerogatives of capital, and this denial is sanctioned by the legal violence of the state, then the theorists of 'libertarian' capitalism do not proclaim institutional robbery, but rather they celebrate the 'natural liberty' of working people to choose between the remaining options of selling their labour as a commodity and being unemployed.

So claiming that there is a lack of "force" compelling such individuals is rather disingenuous, inasmuch as there are existing influence terms of power and coercion that function in a similarly authoritarian manner anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voidwar

Be sure to forget to mention that they could just go back to their own damn country rather than steal from us.

Hmmm. I spy with my little eye a tiny problem. See, a behavior pattern that involves an often dangerous and expensive border crossing, squalid living conditions during the period of residence within the U.S., and a willingness to labor especially arduously for relatively meager compensation indicates that not all's fine and dandy on the home front. To make a long story short, immigration both legal and illegal is spurned by greatly inequitable international wage differentials exacerbated by trade liberalization. Indeed, the available empirical research validates this assessment. For example, consider Wise and Gallagher's NAFTA: A Cautionary Tale:

Quote:

· Exports have increased significantly, but they have been far outstripped by imports, leaving Mexico with a balance of payments deficit.

· Economic growth has been slow in Mexico – less than one percent per capita per year from 1985-99 – compared with 3.4 percent from 1960-80.

· There has been little job creation, falling far short of the demand in Mexico from new entrants into the labor force. The manufacturing sector, one of the few sectors to show significant economic growth, has seen a net loss in jobs since NAFTA took effect.

· Wages have declined nationally, with real wages down significantly. The real minimum wage is down 60 percent since 1982, 23 percent under NAFTA. Contractual wages are down 55 percent since 1987. Manufacturing wages are down 12 percent under NAFTA.

· Sixty percent of the employed do not receive any of the benefits mandated by Mexican law. One-third of the economically active population is in the informal sector.

· The number of households living in poverty has grown 80 percent since 1984, with some 75 percent of Mexico’s people now below the poverty line.

· Inequality has worsened, with Mexico’s Gini coefficient rising from .43 to.48 since 1984, putting Mexico among the most unequal nations in the hemisphere.

· The rural sector is in crisis, beset by grain imports from the U.S., falling commodity prices, and reduced government support.

Hence, an appropriate solution would be the reduction of those wage differentials through the implementation of fair trade policies and decriminalization and amnesty policies intended to facilitate greater transition between the formal and informal labor markets, as well as aid in human capital boosts through education.

wbreese91 · 07-01-09, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Agnapostate

Not quite. That analogy implies conscious and elective robbery of commodities. Illegal immigrants' use of false social security numbers isn't typically intended to "steal" someone else's identity (in fact, it would be irrational for them to do so since it would heighten the risk of detection, capture, and criminal prosecution), and is hardly elective or for the purpose of acquiring commodities.

We can refer to the coercive elements of capitalist wage labor to address this aspect. There's no physical force used to compel them, but there certainly is power and coercion present that ensures entry into the informal labor market one way or another. As put by David Ellerman:

So claiming that there is a lack of "force" compelling such individuals is rather disingenuous, inasmuch as there are existing influence terms of power and coercion that function in a similarly authoritarian manner anyway.

Hmmm. I spy with my little eye a tiny problem. See, a behavior pattern that involves an often dangerous and expensive border crossing, squalid living conditions during the period of residence within the U.S., and a willingness to labor especially arduously for relatively meager compensation indicates that not all's fine and dandy on the home front. To make a long story short, immigration both legal and illegal is spurned by greatly inequitable international wage differentials exacerbated by trade liberalization. Indeed, the available empirical research validates this assessment. For example, consider Wise and Gallagher's NAFTA: A Cautionary Tale:

Hence, an appropriate solution would be the reduction of those wage differentials through the implementation of fair trade policies and decriminalization and amnesty policies intended to facilitate greater transition between the formal and informal labor markets, as well as aid in human capital boosts through education.

No the solution would be to send them back to their own crappy country until they can figure out how to get a green card, not to encourage illegal behavior. I don't care what they intended or why, nor do I care if they live here or hold jobs, I just care that they come here in a legal and acceptable way like my ancestors had to.

07-01-09, 09:07 AM	#3
Agnapostate Banned Join Date: Sep 2008 Last Seen: 11-24-09 10:02 PM Location: Between Hollywood and Compton. Posts: 5,497 Thanks: 208 Thanked 908 Times in 608 Posts Lean: Libertarian Gender:	Re: American Apparel - 1800 illegal workers Labor market segmentation theory of course informs us that forcible containment in the informal (secondary) labor market will ensure "illicit" activity in order to enter the formal (primary) labor market. The reason for identity theft by illegal immigrants is of course the requirement of Social Security numbers for I-9 purposes, which they cannot legally obtain. The solution is obviously to change that, but then what would the tabloidist media have fun with?
	__________________ The workmen desire to get as much, the master to give as little as possible...It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. -Adam Smith

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