Voidwar

The hell it isn't. It doesn't make any difference if this illegal alien's intended victim is one particular citizen, or that citizen's government program, the theft is just as illegal.

Which is your "newspeak" way of saying this . . .

Justification of thievery must be what "newspeak" was invented for.

Lets try it, how much can a bunch of vans and zip-ties really cost ?
I'm just fine with appointing one new judge per van, and I still doubt it would cost much. Lets try it and find out before we claim it can't be done.

Voidwar

Another falsehood. They are not forced to commit this crime, they could easily just stay in their own damn country.

Voidwar

Your Marxist blather about non-existant coercion is a bunch of platitudinous talking points easily found in the intellectual garbage bin.

Another falsehood. It is an interaction between a person who decided to own a certain amount of property and a person who has decided to own less. Your "stronger" euphemism implies threats that do not exist. As I stated earlier, your whole line of reasoning is blown out of the water by the simple fact that the man can go build his own workshop if he wants to make the rules where he works.

Agnapostate

You've not provided any sound or valid reason for "closing the border" or generally decriminalizing border crossing. There wouldn't be a need to in the case of reduced international wage differentials, just as there's no need for a "strong border" between California and Nevada, because there are no vastly inequitable wage differentials between those two states.

This is absolute drivel. Deliberate victimization is decidedly different from mere invention of social security numbers that are not consciously intended to replicate any others and leave millions of additional dollars in unused benefits in state and federal coffers.

As tiresome as your post generally was, your reference to "newspeak" was certainly amusing, as it was of course a word invented by the author George Orwell, himself a libertarian socialist and anarchist sympathizer who wrote favorably of the Spanish Revolution in his Homage to Catalonia.

It perhaps is true that brutally authoritarian police state policies (not mere deportation efforts) that would probably involve some degree of racial profiling could reduce both legal and illegal immigration. However, apart from the obviously greater financial costs of that compared to my own proposal, I simply don't believe that there are a sufficient amount of morally indifferent people in this country to permit such a state of affairs to be implemented.

You're obviously not interested in serious analysis, since you simply care about inane platitudes and talking points like this. You've made no effort to address the reality of the excessively inequitable wage differentials exacerbated by trade liberalization, but have simply offered the standard rightist fare. For example...

"Marxist"? I'm an anarchist, not that I'd expect you to be sufficiently familiar with political economy to easily distinguish between the two, despite the critical differences.

Not at all. That implies perfect social mobility. The fact that social mobility is in fact rather restricted in this country and others thought to be "developed" thus renders reality quite different from that pipe dream.

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The workmen desire to get as much, the master to give as little as possible...It is not, however, difficult to foresee which of the two parties must, upon all ordinary occasions, have the advantage in the dispute, and force the other into a compliance with their terms. -Adam Smith

jallman

Of course it undermines his central point because his central point was bunk to begin with.

Which it is robbery...

And that is still not our problem. I have no more sympathy for the man who steals a loaf of bread than I do for the man who steals a diamond ring.

Which again is irrelevant when we're talking about labor markets on one side of the border as opposed to those on the other. Laws governing our commerce and labor markets are in place and those who do not wish to engage criminal activity by undermining those laws need not insinuate themselves illegally into our markets.

I have no problem with immigration. You seem to be desperate to tie the issue of immigration to the crime of illegal immigration. We have mechanisms in place to permit legal entrance into our society and markets. If there are coercive or negative elements fueling the drive to immigrate, then there should be equally coercive and negative elements to deter doing so illegally.

I'm sure that is the case, but the underlying question to me becomes...what's the point? Seems to me that this is a throwback to the old fable about the directionless grasshopper and the hardworking ant. When the residents of the industrious nation outfitted themselves to weather the nuclear crisis and the other nation failed to do so, what is the value of permitting the failed nation to carry on under the hospice of the other? What entitlement does the failed nation have to the good fortunes, or rather, the hard work of the prepared nation? I would argue none.

And these arguments are to move me...how? We see where disproportionate concern for the well being of our neighbors, when unreciprocated, can cause a financial strain on our coffers. This is not some nebulous theory but is fact as we are observing it today. It is not in the interest of the greater nation to distribute its wealth, no matter what the disparity between utility of maintaining wealth for the greater nation and the gaining of it by the weaker one.

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Prayer and blasphemy...the two are so narrowly separated in these trying times.

RightinNYC

Just bought another 30 in case a work stoppage causes rationing.

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People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.

UtahBill

with stinky fingers....?

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Education is expensive, ignorance is costly.

Each generation should have more opportunities than the last, but not at the expense of the next.

Tucker Case

I'm not sure. I've never sniffed them.

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- Ænema by Maynard James Keenan

Voidwar

Stealing from an individual citizen and stealing from that citizen's government's program are equally illegal. This attempted justification of theft gets you nowhere.

Your biased description notwithstanding, deportation is what illegal aliens have coming. I don't care about ethnicity, I care about legality. If the mexican contingent of our illegal alien problem stands out so much due to their huge numbers, whose fault is that ?

Unproven assertion. You put a figure up, and I will spend that figure, minus one dollar, on vans and zip ties, and I will enforce the law. A better plan by far than making a mockery of our law with amnesty.

Well you are morally indifferent enough to defend theft and forgery, so perhaps you should re-assess your assumptions.

You're obviously going to hide behind the word "platitudes" whenever you get smacked in the face by the facts. They could just stay in their own damn country, and that is a fact.

The terminology you were using was popularized by Marx.

I called the blather Marxist, not you.

No, it does not. It implies that "the man can go build his own workshop if he wants to make the rules where he works." Again, you are smacked in he face by facts, and again, you hide behind more "newspeak" in an attempt to deny a plain truth.

wbreese91

YES I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You have just chosen to ignore it, because you can't defend against it. An open border invites terrorism, because people can go around the checkpoints. That is why I support immigrations centers that make it easier for immigrants and a strong border.Try reading next time before you accuse me of failing to explain my reasoning.

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"Because of the radiant humanity of Christ, nothing genuinely human fails to touch the hearts of Christians. Faith in Christ does not impel us to intolerance. On the contrary it obliges us to engage others in a respectful dialogue."~Karol Wojtyla (Pope John Paul II)