obvious Child

Why don't Canadians, Western Europeans, Japanese, South Koreans, or any of the people who live in the first world illegally migrant to the the US for jobs?

independent_thinker2002

Canada's economy is not as bad as Mexico's. The other countries have a bigger obstacle to cross to get here.

__________________
==]:{o

obvious Child

From what I hear about the costs of a smuggler, it's actually cheaper to fly and walk across the Canadian border.

But yes, it's wage differentials! Something that neither Rage nor Rogue want to discuss.

independent_thinker2002

Yeah, don't expect that to change.

jamesrage

Maybe because Canadians,western Europeans,Japanese,south Koreans and other people living in first world nations have a decent economy and perhaps with exception to Canada are not directly across the border.

__________________

jamesrage

The vast majority of illegals are from south America and seeing how porous our border is I fail to how it would actually cost anyone anything just to walk across. Because I seriously doubt that all 12-20 million plus illegals paid someone to smuggle them here especially when we lack the efficient number of border guards to properly secure the border.



We already know that,that is why anyone who is actually against illegal immigration will demand as one of the solutions to illegal immigration that we severely crack down on the businesses and individuals who hire illegals.We know people do not come here to make the same wages they would in their home countries,if they did they wouldn't be able to survive here even with 10-20 families in the same house.Apparently part of your name must be a misnomer since you missed the obvious.

obvious Child

All? Probably not. A sizable number? Certainly.

As one. Except that you and Rouge are adamantly against all other solutions as well, especially the one solution that will permanently fix the problem. Cracking down on illegal employment may be more expensive then doing nothing. But what we DO know through out the course of history (which Rouge calls 'propaganda') is that when wage differentials converge, migration halts even in the presence of jobs for illegals.

Huh? What the hell are you talking about? The question was obviously rhetorical. And I already made that point in previous threads.

Swiss Cheese Memory you have?

jamesrage

Usually pro-illegals like to bring up Canada as though we should be more pissed about the ten or twelve measly Canadians that sneak through than the huge vast amount of illegals from south of the border.



The other solutions is to

1.build a manned and armed wall.

2.temporarily deny visas to citizens of countries we have the most illegal immigration problems with(after all not all illegals walked across the border,militarize the border.

3.change and or remove the 14th amendment since it was created to give former slaves citizenship not to facilitate chain migration,or perhaps end the policy of chain migration.

4.militarize the border.



Amnesty is not a solution since it rewards illegal behavior and encourages more people to come here illegal.

Fixing the economies of those countries is not our job nor should we export any of our jobs over to those countries when we have Americans who need those jobs.

Doing nothing only ensures the problem will get worse and therefore be more expensive to fix in the future.


Are you suggesting that we either raise the minimum wage or that we abolish it?Lowering it will create more people on welfare and raising it will have no impact since those who hire illegals already do not obey the law.

obvious Child

Uh...the points are hardly related.

So Fascism and isolationism.Got it. You're a bush supporter aren't you?

Apparently the historical way of stopping migration for sure doesn't seem to appeal to you.

While we're at it, let's abolish abortion and criminalize anti-contraceptives....

Agreed, however your fascist approach to things is hardly American nor is a long term solution.

And just how many Americans clean toilets? Work as general janitors, work in slaughter houses, work in fields picking berries, etc, etc etc?

If we had to pay minimum wages for those jobs, how competitive do you think our firms would be?

Based on what? Remittances to Mexico are to all time highs. Furthermore the benefits that illegal labor has, namely as a deflationary effect on prices is essentially a tax cut. It's hard to say definitively that it will get worse, or that in fact the costs of illegals is higher then their benefits. No rational, educated person would say that one is higher then the other. A rational, educated person would say that illegals have their benefits and costs but the picture is way too complex to argue definitively either way. What we CAN do is take parts and look at them in isolation from other parts.

Neither. The only thing that will stop illegal migration for sure which history has proven time and time again (and which Rogue would like to pretend doesn't exist) is when the economy of where migrants come from catches up in wages and living standards to where they migrant to. This obviously means developing Mexico to a point where opportunity and wage differentials are marginal if not completely negligible.

I guarantee you that illegal immigration aside from the criminal activities such as drug running, sex worker, etc will halt. The funny thing is that what we're facing with Mexico will become Mexico's problem with its neighbors when and if Mexico develops into the first world.

jamesrage

Those things are not fascist nor do they promote isolationism,every nation has a right to secure it's borders by any means necessary and to prevent illegal immigration.

If bush has it his way there would be amnesty with us paying for their legal expenses,our borders would be wide open and everyone would be working for substandard wages.And I am sure the goo

It is not our job to fix other nations.I would rather my tax dollars be spent cracking down on the scum who hire illegals,eventually they would stop hiring illegals and with no job prospects,no tax payer benefits and services for illegals they will go back to their home countries .


I am all for abolishing abortion,except in the rare case to save the mother's life.I think killing children who are in the womb is one of the most sadistic things someone can do and I think those people should be rounded up tried in a court of law and then executed(the last time I said this some retarded stick boy/girl liberal who shall rename nameless accused me of threatening her life in an abortion forum).

Mexico's economy can go to hell in hand basket after we fix it.Adequately securing our borders and prevent anchor baby births is not fascist.

I imagine more Americans would be doing those things if employers were actually punished for illegally hiring illegal aliens.Illegals are not doing the jobs Americans do not want to do,illegals are doing the jobs for the wages Americans do not want to do.

If everyone was playing by the same rules(meaning no one was able to hire illegals) then you would still be competitive.One company can use less employees,another company can use lower quality of materials and so on.





The fact that illegal immigration has trippled since the Reagan Amnesty/Immigration Reform and Control Act/Simpson-Mazzoli Act

Thats because we are not cracking down on the scum who hire illegals.They are like garbage that attracts rodents and cockroaches.

I am sure stealing has a benifit for some people but that doesn't mean we should consider the benifits of allowing that person to steal.



Operation wetback has proven that cracking down on illegals will discourage illegal immigration too.You say history has shown it but I do not see any credible links.
Operation Wetback - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Operation Wetback deported more than 130,000 Mexican nationals in the space of almost a year, although local INS officials claimed that an additional 1 million to 1.2 million had fled to Mexico. The INS estimates rested on the claim that most illegal immigrants, fearing apprehension by the government, had voluntarily repatriated themselves before and during the initiative. Proponents of increased deportations point to a multiplying effect, where each individual deported resulted in roughly nine voluntarily returning to their home country.

Last time I checked Mexico secures their southern border and has little tolerance of illegal aliens in their country.