Scucca

Realising the failures of our economies should provoke reaction! Our power should stem from political motivation as we attempt to eliminate the economic inefficiency that inflicts the economy

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Awesome!

Right but how? Are you stating that a worker should make the same amount as a manager to attain your goal? The research that I've done so far indicates that in the US you can remain mobile through education, even with a two year degree. Seems like education is the answer here in the States with good work ethic.

Scucca

Nope. Compensation according to supply/demand criteria would lead to a substantial narrowing of wage differentials

Education is used to stunt social mobility. Indeed, orthodox economics predicts such a result if there are any differences in household wealth.

Awesome!

I’ve thought about your arguments that you have presented about social mobility and then researched the model countries of social mobility namely: Norway, Finland, Sweden etc. and almost packed by bags catching a red eye to Oslo, but then researched a little more finding articles such as the one below with the common sense perspective that Americans make more money, we aren’t taxed as heavily and we pay less for goods and services than those in the EU according to the source below. Then I thought about it and said, so what? We still do not compare to Norway as far as social mobility because Norway on the graph is dwarfing the US as far as social mobility, but then thought about Norway’s population of 4-5 million and realized that New York City, or Chicago, L.A. etc. with populations double that of Norway probably have twice as much social mobility as the entire country of Norway. It depends on where you live etc. I then put my feet up and stopped looking for air rates to the EU.

Classically Liberal: The EU vs the US: Who is Economically Better Off?

The next endeavor was to show proof of social mobility in the US which appear that a meritocracy still exists and not just some social mobility but a lot of mobility. I was amazed to learn that Asian Americans per household have the highest income? WHAT? Are you joking, not white anglo euro Americans? How? You probably think it’s luck, because we are all powerless right? But an entire ethnic group? Why are Asians earning more than us white folk?
How do you explain that?

See source as follows.
Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I standby my assertion that if we follow the immigrant example, go to school, work hard, we still have the same capability to be socially mobile as ever. You differ in your argument here, but what is the alternative? In other words is the Norway model the ideal here? Would that suffice and make you happy?

Scucca

That's the American Dream all shriveled up then. Shame!

Why are you picking on diddy ole Norway? We do not have to restrict ourselves to Scandinavia. Indeed, we do not even have to restrict ourselves to social democracy. You'll struggle to find countries that compete with US immobility.

Careful now! You cannot refer to Asians. For example, we have clear divides in performance between Indians and Bangladeshis. Understanding those differences certainly is not easy. For example, we could try and marry potential cultural effects and social exclusion analysis in capitalism. That would involve some in-depth social science analysis. I'm not aware of any hardcore publications that have managed to achieve it.

Given US immigration rates, your shoddy mobility rates are even more worrying.

I'm a socialist. My understanding of the changes required is irrelevant to your shores. You're slaves to neo-liberalism after all (with the American Dream a dandy means to aid the randomness in the sleepwalk)

Awesome!

That's the American Dream all shriveled up then. Shame!

Compared to what? Social Mobility Studies presenting model EU countries with less PPP, more expensive goods and services, more unemployment on average?

Why are you picking on diddy ole Norway? We do not have to restrict ourselves to Scandinavia. Indeed, we do not even have to restrict ourselves to social democracy. You'll struggle to find countries that compete with US immobility.

Not knocking Norway, just wondering if this is your socialist model we can all marvel at? And why don’t you name some countries then that we would have to struggle with that compete with US immobility?

Discrimination exists whether Asians, Black, Latino etc as they need more representation in government, politics etc. Here is what I mean by Asian as follows. (See Source) Name any EU, or any country with mobility/Median Household Income like that. 6 ethnic groups that didn’t land on Plymouth Rock. There is your evidence. I guess there just lucky, or your version of the American dream all shriveled up?

Model minority - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Asian Indian = $68,771
Filipino = $65,700
Chinese = $57,433
Koreans = $ 53,763
Japanese = $53,195
Vietnamese = $45,980
White = $48,784
Total US population = $44,684

Immigration rates (See source as follows). The EU couldn’t hold our jock when it comes to immigration rates, and why should they. Immigrants choose to come here versus inbred class ridden Europe.

Center for Immigration Studies

U.K.’s immigration rates (See source as follows) I can look out my office window and see more immigrants than that.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...ion-rates.html

I'm a socialist. My understanding of the changes required is irrelevant to your shores. You're slaves to neo-liberalism after all (with the American Dream a dandy means to aid the randomness in the sleepwalk)

I realize so much freedom and choice is hard for a Euro to fathom. The ones that do come here from my experience love our shores. I did talk to a Brit not too long ago and he wanted to go back to the U.K. though because he couldn’t comprehend so many choices here. Why do you have to have 200 brands of coffee in the grocery store he stated?

However it’s easier to be a slave of socialist policies than neo-liberal ones no matter how inefficient they are, so I take that as a compliment.

Scucca

The US marries higher poverty with lower mobility. It always surprises me how the average American is so willing to ignore the resulting social problems.

Norway isn't socialist. It has followed social democracy. In general, we can refer to how these capitalist economies have less tolerance of poverty. The standard argument is that this is at the cost of merit. Thus, the right winger will prattle on about labour market flexibility and how this ensures wage determination reflects work ethic. Short term poverty is then wiped out by long term social mobility. The empirical evidence doesn't support that argument.

You have mobility rates that ape the class ridden Brits.

You can refer to the vast majority of Western Europe.

Nope! You're not factoring in any socio-economic variable and are attempting to pick and choose outliers to ignore your country's overall immobility. That won't be very effective, given we can refer to outliers in all countries.

You're choosing inappropriate statistics for comparison. You have two improvements available to you. First, compare the EU and the US. That would involve adding immigrant populations for all EU countries. I wouldn't bother if I was you though. I doubt the overall figures will be significantly different (as shown, for example, by UN population data). Alternatively, you could use immigrant population as percentage of the country's population. I wouldn't bother though, given the US does not stand out. Try here

That brought a tear to my eye, so it did!

I hope you're not going to show contempt for political economy by suggesting Western Europe is socialist. Your reference to Britain was also amusing, given we ape the neo-liberal folly that has so crippled your mobility and harvested poverty so diligently.

Awesome!

The US marries higher poverty with lower mobility. It always surprises me how the average American is so willing to ignore the resulting social problems.


Please define your definition of poverty and be specific about social problems?

Norway isn't socialist. It has followed social democracy. In general, we can refer to how these capitalist economies have less tolerance of poverty. The standard argument is that this is at the cost of merit. Thus, the right winger will prattle on about labour market flexibility and how this ensures wage determination reflects work ethic. Short term poverty is then wiped out by long term social mobility. The empirical evidence doesn't support that argument.


Well can we still marvel at Norway, Finland, Germany etc.? Or would the mobility of any major American city be right up there with these brilliant EU Juggernaut’s of mobility in all their splendor?

You have mobility rates that ape the class ridden Brits.


Again take any major American City and the mobility is by far better here in America unless you live in a poor state.

Nope! You're not factoring in any socio-economic variable and are attempting to pick and choose outliers to ignore your country's overall immobility. That won't be very effective, given we can refer to outliers in all countries.


That’s just not bloody true. The fact is there is no western competitor country that has that many ethnic groups with better median household income than whites like we do in the States which would suggest that there is no socio-economic variable that needs to be factored.

Simple as: WORK ETHIC + EDUCATION = SUCCESS.

Could you be overanalyzing?

What did these outliers do to become successful? Did they settle in rural Alabama and decide to have 20 kids and drop out of high school. Probably not if I may be so bold… They settled in major urban cities, worked hard and studied hard. There is your answer, case closed. We have both found the grail! No need for socialism, we can just pack our bags and move to the city, work hard and get educated. Were socially mobile indeed after all.

You're choosing inappropriate statistics for comparison. You have two improvements available to you. First, compare the EU and the US. That would involve adding immigrant populations for all EU countries. I wouldn't bother if I was you though. I doubt the overall figures will be significantly different (as shown, for example, by UN population data). Alternatively, you could use immigrant population as percentage of the country's population. I wouldn't bother though, given the US does not stand out. Try here


Please provide the actual site spelled out


That brought a tear to my eye, so it did!


Well it should as there is so much more than your cold and cloudy socialist paradise there.

I hope you're not going to show contempt for political economy by suggesting Western Europe is socialist.


Well what if it was? Is this the answer, the grail so to speak that will render us all powerful?

Your reference to Britain was also amusing, given we ape the neo-liberal folly that has so crippled your mobility and harvested poverty so diligently.


I know but some of us like to use different brands of toilet paper and more cutting edge dental procedures. I apologize for those remarks... the English are just a tripp, that is all.

Scucca

There was no useful content in your post. I therefore see no purpose in continuing. Cheers!

Awesome!

Cheers Scucca, and I realize I am a smart arse sometimes. Learned a lot and will continue to research social mobility.