Scucca

I was a victim of sentence structure. I'm using conservatism with a little c! That will impact negatively on both sides of your party puzzle

Personal responsibility would be an integral factor if, via the use of the criminal justice system, the individual could be manipulated towards legitimate activity. There is no evidence to support that position. Once wage differentials are enabled to flourish, labour mobility will follow. If the goal is to remove illegal immigration then narrowing those differentials is a must

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Rogue

So you're saying that our fed gov, run by corrupt ruling elites, has allowed a horde of illegal Mexican scabs to flood into the US to not only provide the so called cheap subsidized illegal labor that our scumbag employers of illegals require but also to force the wages of American citizen workers down also?

So your solution to ending illegal immigration is to destroy the American middle class, lower the wages of the American unskilled workers to the point that illegal Mexican scabs aren't that much better off breaking into the US than staying in Mexico.

I really prefer what the states are starting to do, by pass the corrupt fed gov and the corrupt ruling elites, and start enforcing immigration laws themselves. Kick out or force the illegal Mexican scabs to self deport back to their hell holes and preserve the American middle and lower class. Wage differentials between Mexican and American workers don't mean a lot, if our gov protects its workers and doesn't allow illegal scabs to flood in.

It seems like there has always been huge wage differentials between Americans and Mexicans without any acompanying illegal immigration. As long as the Mexicans were kept out, wage differentials weren't a factor.

But we have a new breed of corrupt scumbag employers of illegals with their corrupt scumbag paid for ruling elites and lobbyists, don't we?

Awesome!

No, we just have a lot of factors like globalization. There is no destroyed middle class or soon to be in America. That is just an excuse as there are plenty of opportunities in America regardless of the illegal issue or outsourcing issues, and that is the reality. If we worked as hard or had the same motivation as illegals or legal immigrants we would be just fine in my opinion.

Scucca

The solution is to allow fair trade such that world economic welfare is maximised. I get sick of developed nations whinging and whining about trade, then using the subsequent illegal immigration as an excuse to further peddle their nonsense.

US conservatism is something appalling

Rogue

The current brand of globalization works only for the ruling elites and the super rich. Where are the protections for the middle class and lower class Americans? Why don't those American companies that move outside the US have to pay a tarrif on their products that they import back into the US? Maybe they'd think twice before they moved outside the US? 3.5 million jobs lost to outsourcing? Did the most corrupt fed gov in US history analyse the long term effects to this country of allowing major outsourcing before they bent over for the super rich, or were they just bought off handsomely by the legions of lobbyists so that whichever CEO stood to gain made his maximum compensation?

So as soon as low skilled Americans are reduced to being as desperate as illegal Mexican scabs they'll start jumping on those scraps tossed down to them by the super rich and in the end be just as fine as those same desperate illegal Mexican scabs? Gotcha.

Scucca

Trade isn't a zero sum game. The US benefits (particularly as they utilise beggar-thy-neighbour unfair trade practices). Your problem isn't with globalisation. It is with the failure of your country to redistribute gains. I suggest you try and grunt a radical nature, rather than coming out with this "woe is us" victim attitude

Rogue

Just curious. WTF does that mean?

The US is the one with the massive trade deficits, which are the result of our inept trade negotiators and the unfair trading practices of our trading partners. So globalization is just great huh? The super rich aren't dividing up their spoils? Well, they're not gonna.

Just curious. WTF does that mean?

The woe is us victum attitude is directed at our corrupt fed gov, which is available to the highest bidder, and which is owned by the scumbag employers of illegals who have allowed a horde of illegal Mexican scabs to flood into the US.

You don't seem to be from around here?

jfuh

No protectionism is utter rubbish. Tariffs work both ways, if we establish high tariffs for imported goods what prevents other nations from doing the same against our goods? Industrialized nations would be most seriously hurt by a tariffs policy. Free trade is the proper direction to go.

Unfortunately that is the kind of world which we live in. You either lead the pack and be more creative, have better ingenuity, produce higher quality, and just simply be more competitive or you'd have to bite the dust.
What developing nations rely on - cheap labor - we rely on automation.
They rely on hard labor, we rely on fast efficient machines.

But in our nation we have a unique situation where our own labor unions are working against that and insist that an employee can only produce a certain quota within only the allowed time that the union has established. That's utter rubbish - if the employee can why couldn't s/he?

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The facts and science of the theory of anthropogenic Global warming

Bodhisattva

Well said. I must admit, I heard about you and your studly economic understanding recently, and it seems that it is well deserved.

So, it is obvious that those in power must know these issues and how to combat them, the question is... what is hindering them from correcting the situation? You mentioned the conservative electorate, do you think that this is really all that is standing in the way of a solution?

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Scucca

I certainly think the western world is severely limited by the consequences of conservative social welfare functions, where losses are deemed to be more important than gains. Given trade will necessarily lead to some redistribution effects, we're always confronted by welfare harming protectionism. It might also be the case that these problems are inflamed by the US election system, where geographic concentration of activities artificially magnifies the influence of the protectionist minded. Ultimately we also have to condemn preferential trade agreements. This has encouraged regionalism, with trade increasingly corrupted by the demands of multinationals (and their impact on labour power in both domestic and foreign nation). Moreover, it has reduced the chances of successful multilateralism (which would significantly reduce international wage differentials).

In the mean time, we suffer the consequences of inefficient labour mobility and the social problems generated by illegal movements