Voidwar

So are you willing to jail your neighbor over hiring two illegals with a truck to do his snow removal ??

You are willing to threaten your own fellow citizen with legal action, which is to threaten with armed coercion, before you just kick out the non-citizen ??

You seem to be confused about which team you are on.

Think about doing it to your neighbor, and then realize that this approach is just a convenient classist attack.

I kinda doubt this. This kind of proposal won't fund enough personnel to catch the majority. Initial implementation will create a situation where it is dangerous to be the biggest business, so all businesses will diversify into many businesses instead of one. Too many businesses doing it, not enough border agents. How do I know it won't ? ? Because the same forces won't pay the money for the extra border agents we need to enforce the law we already have. When they tell me their solution is "stepped up law enforcement", I have my doubts about their "following through", and when they propose targetting fellow citizens instead of illegal aliens, I wonder about their priorities.

John1234

I do not just want "more" border guards.
I want literally 1000 times more. I want to see the border locked down tight to the point that if a rabbit runs across it, it would trigger a massive alert.
And I want all illegals either deported or made citizens, (depending on each separate case).

I want what you want, but i want much more.
I want to see these greedy *******s that employ them rot in prison.
These employers are deliberately using an illegal work force in order to maximize their pocket book at the expense of our citizens.
If it was not for greed amongst our own citizens, the illegals would not even be here.
They are merely responding to the greed of those that desire to employ a underclass that falls below the low class American work force in terms of overhead.

Those "own countrymen" are greedy scum and are half the problem.
Shut them down and the illegals have no reason to come here to begin with unless they want to become crack dealers or mow yards.

You just don't seem to get it. We deport thousands. Not millions. And if by chance we do deport millions, its sure as heck not 20 million.
The conditions under which thousands are transported has nothing at all in common with the situation created by what would be the largest exodus of human beings in mankind's history.

Look at it a different way.
Say we had to evacuate all of Texas.
All of the 10's of millions in Texas have to report to Mississippi.
But now lets take away every dollar from those Texans...
Is FEMA going to care for them? Are the Mississippians?
To put it bluntly, thousands of Texans would die.

The type of humanitarian crisis from immediately expelling 20 million people with no money or assets would be something of the likes that mankind has never seen.
It would have an affect like dropping a nuclear bomb.
There is no shelter, no jobs, no food, no blankets, no nothing... for these people.

Trying to support any such mass exodus is futile because its simply never going to happen.
There are only 2 possibilities. 1 is to do nothing. The other is to work on the Illegal's desire to come here.
Securing the border is a given, regardless of anything else.
Whether we secure it due to illegals or due to the next terrorist attack, one way or the other our borders will be secured in the long run.

We can step up deportations, crack down on greedy business owners that deliberately hire illegals, and make sure that any government aide they have access to is strictly human rights related or (refugee status aide).
This would create a back flow to Mexico that they can manage.
To just up and kick out 20 million, would not be manageable, not even by us.
Hell, we can't even handle a few thousand Katrina victims.
Even with the entire world's support, 20 million people in exodus at once to no where... would be a total disaster.

Its not "big business" that benefits from the Illegals so much as it is large middle class businesses and the individual homeowner.
Because we have illegals, the price of building a home is cheaper, the price of fruits and chicken are cheaper and the price of landscaping is cheaper.
In some cases personal servants, maids, kitchen crew, etc... are cheaper.
The upper class benefits from the illegals because services they use are cheaper.
The middle and lower class benefit from the illegals because some meat and foods are cheaper.
But then we ALL share the tax burden for them, and select job markets in both the middle and low class are brought down for everyone in those markets.
The people supporting illegal immigrants do so for a wide variety of reasons.
Big business is not high on the list.
The ones with the tech jobs that are more in line with "big business" are mostly "legal" immigrants.

Edit: Western Union is one big business that does profit massively from the illegal immigrants.
I am sure there are a couple more.

John1234

No one is proposing that individual homeowners that hire illegal contractors would be prosecuted.
In the south, most contractors are not even legal and they are citizens.

If that truck crew had an American "boss" that the homeowner was paying, I'd be all for sending that "boss" to jail. (Not for a long time).

There is a large difference between hiring a contractor and hiring on illegals as illegal employees.

Voidwar

Any illegal can get ahold of his own truck and blade, I know from direct experience. He doesn't need a "boss". Your reluctance to prosecute a homeowner should be telling you something, that what you want to threaten your fellow citizens with is wrong. Trying to justify the threat out of classism, and labelling them as greedy, is a cover, which is exposed by the everyday case of the private homeowner directly hiring illegal labor. If it don't feel right to do it to your neighbor, don't do it to your fellow citizen across town even if he makes you jealous by owning a truck with a snowblade.



To address your other points from the post above . . .

W.r.t. your alleged possible humanitarian crisis, I have an easy remedy to your complaints. You can decide the timetable, of how fast is fast enough, and then incrementally increase the new enforcement workforce to get the job done over that span of time. If a phased period is ok then hire the ongoing dynamic number additional enforcement personnel that kicks em out just fast enough for your morals to withstand.

Another point was something about big business not really hiring illegals, and while you may have some point about technical business, or ones that require degress, labor and manufacturing business are a different story. I would call Tyson a big business, and it is the biggest in the chicken business. They had significant issues with employing illegals in processing as I recall. IowaBeefPackers, or IBP, was using illegals extensively in their meat packing operations across Iowa and Nebraska. In this midwestern two state context, they were a significant employer

Rogue

Your argument seems to hold little water and, if I didn't know better, it smacks of someone hired by the employers of illegals to obfuscate and to try to divert responsibility for the illegal Mexican invasion from where it clearly belongs, on the scumbags employers of illegals WHO PROVIDE THE JOBS MAGNET THAT LURES ILLEGALS HERE IN THE FIRST PLACE. Dry up the jobs magnet provided by the employers of illegals and THE ILLEGALS WILL NO LONGER COME AND THE ONES HERE WILL RETURN BACK TO WHERE THEY CAME FROM. It's a no brainer and it has sure worked in Arizona and Oklahoma.

We don't want to make the US a worse place than Mexico to live for citizens, we want to make the US a worse place to live than Mexico for ILLEGAL ALIENS. No jobs. No social services. No place to rent. No choice but to go back to where they came from, SELF DEPORTATION, and maybe try to come back LEGALLY. It they don't succeed in coming back LEGALLY, too bad. It's not the US's problem.

You sound just like good ole boy Republicans who love to bash illegals whenever they can but who say 'well yah can't blame employers for hiring illegals, they're just trying to improve their own bottom line' or 'I'd probably do the same thing myself'. So we shouldn't punish these employers who hire illegals, just because there are RESPONSIBLE for 20 million illegals running loose in the US? What you're saying is that what we'll do is to seal the border and cut off the flow of illegals that way. How has that worked?

We'll never stop the illegal Mexican invasion crisis until we effectively dry up the jobs market for illegals. You know that too, don't you?

jamesrage

That should be said about every individual who deliberately/knowingly hires illegals.They are fueling an illegal alien invasion,they are basically traitors to this country. They are disloyal individuals who threaten the sovereignty of this country.

I am not a classist,if someone is deliberately/knowingly hiring illegals their asses should be tossed in jail, they should lose their business and assets,have a felony status and pay a huge fine.
If you use assets and forfeiture laws to apply to criminals who hire illegals then that would help funder such operations.
Thats why you crack down on all businesses.Have undercover agents pose as illegals at "day labor" centers to bust those trying to hire illegals and have undercovers pose as scumbag businesses in order to round up illegals.

That didn't stop Oklahoma and Arizona and most businesses do not hire illegals

Thats why you crack down on the businesses who hire illegals.


Thats why states need to do the jobs the Feds won't/refuse to do.Oklahoma,Arizona and a few cities have stepped up to the plate

I do not feel sorry for scum who hire illegals.Those scum who hire illegal are are one of the main reasons why we have 12-20 million illegals in this country in the first place.They are magnets that attract people to come here illegally in the first place.

Remove that magnet and the only people you have to worry about crossing here illegally are those trying to pop out anchor babies,those that mean us additional harm,those trying to smuggle drugs and those fleeing law enforcement.

__________________

Voidwar

Neither one of you is able to confront the fact that you dont want to jail your neighbor for hiring the illegals with the snowblade.

Just a scapegoating of "businesses", a convenient classist attack instead of targetting the ILLEGAL alien.

Ignoring the wrong committed by the illegal alien, and putting all blame on the employer cost you any credibility and exposes the classism.

Voidwar

Merely your less than impressive opinion.

So are you willing to send men with guns to take your neighbor to jail for hiring illegal with a snowblade ?? Yes or no ?

I'd like to see proof that hassling a small percentage of business owners with an underfunded bureau makes the ILLEGAL aliens leave. They will just hang around and beg and steal and scavenge rather than go home.

jamesrage

It is not a classist attack and were are not ignoring the wrong committed by illegals.Businesses just like everyone else in this country has to obey the law and there needs to be a system in place to make sure and entice businesses to obey the law.

You seem to be ignoring the wrong committed by employers who knowingly/deliberately hire illegals and the fact they are the main reason why illegals come here in the first place.

Denying the fact that people come here illegally because of the businesses who knowingly/deliberately hire illegals cost you any credibility of wanting to fix the illegal immigration problem.If you want to stop illegal immigration you have to address the main causes of illegal immigration.Those main causes are the magnets that draw people to come here illegally.Crack down on those who hire illegals and you will dry up the job magnet that attacks the huge vast majority of people who come here illegally and with not job most illegal will go back home and any that remain will be easier to deport.Arizona and Oklahoma enact laws against hiring illegals,tax payer benefits to illegals as well as some other laws,now most of the illegals have left states those fled to illegal alien sanctuary states.

It does no good just punishing just the illegals if businesses keep hiring them.

jamesrage

If your nieghbor was running a crackhouse that was attacking gangs and a whole bunch of other criminals wouldn't you want men to come in and take that neighbor to jail?Yes or no?

Good then it will be easier to round them up and ship them back home and since the only thing they'll be able to do here is beg,steal and scavenge most of them will not come back since the original reason why they come here is gone.