No Immigrants = ????? - Page 3

Rogue · 04-01-08, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

Thats great and I agree it would be great if we could chase illegals from state to state until all states just say enough is enough, but it probably won't happen because illegals are so entertwined in the system that we need a compromise to offer to them and then hammer down after that in my opinion. Maybe you are right though, that the states may come up with the solution themselves and solve the problem.

Yes, it would be great, wouldn't it, if we could chase the illegals from state to state to back to where they came from, all at little cost to the American taxpayers. You can just imagine the alarm the residents of the various states will experience as their state becomes FLOODED with illegals. Maybe then the sheeple will force their state legislatures to act. It certainly won't be easy to get these tough on illegals laws passed. There will be unbelievablely stiff resistance from such pro illegal, open border lobby groups such as: the ACLU, the SPLC, the various Mexican racial groups, the chamber of commerce, the Democratic party, the BUSH ADMINISTRATION, and others.

Just what compromise would you be thinking of and who are you talking about to offer the compromise to?

Awesome! · 04-02-08, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

Yes, it would be great, wouldn't it, if we could chase the illegals from state to state to back to where they came from, all at little cost to the American taxpayers. You can just imagine the alarm the residents of the various states will experience as their state becomes FLOODED with illegals. Maybe then the sheeple will force their state legislatures to act. It certainly won't be easy to get these tough on illegals laws passed. There will be unbelievablely stiff resistance from such pro illegal, open border lobby groups such as: the ACLU, the SPLC, the various Mexican racial groups, the chamber of commerce, the Democratic party, the BUSH ADMINISTRATION, and others.

Just what compromise would you be thinking of and who are you talking about to offer the compromise to?

I'm making the assumption that if we really crack down on enforcement and secure our borders that Mexico will show pictures of people dying on the news because the U.S. is not being mean spirited, and they may go to the international community. On top of that all of the pantsh@@ter groups will come out here in the US taking it to the streets and really creating havoc on our economy. Not just a few days of riots but completely shut down parts of our economy.

It would be like taking away heroin from a junkie. Our enabling Mexico is the heroin and Mexico and the illegals and all their supporters are the junkie.

Based on that assumption no politician is going to really make change unless they have a compromise. Maybe we could start with Mexico. A compromise that lets people come here on guest worker programs that we tax and know who they are. Workers that have been here illegally for 5 years etc. we let stay here, but they will have to register with Homeland Security. All day laborer lines at home depot for example will be targeted. Anyone without correct documentation will be deported unless they can substantiate that they have been employed five years or more with pay stubs etc.?

Zyphlin · 04-02-08, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

I think you may need to rethink the contributions of the Mexican immigrants (majority of illegals in this country) as it seems that you may be trying to devalue them. Maybe also rethink how the U.S. uses cheap labor all around the world, to be in your eyes, a prosperous nation now.

Where did I say they don't contribute? They do. But they contribute illegally, and large amounts also feed upon society as well. There are numbers up there to back up that they take less, and take more, so that can be ran around for ages. I'm just saying that its not a difinitive net gain, but that's not even the crux of my argument.

And what in the world does cheap labor abroad have to do with my argument?

Quote:

I agree with what you are saying as far as laws. I just think that in order to come up with a comprehensive solution we need to offer something to the illegals that are already here as a compromise with Mexico, and then strictly enforce the law after than, maybe use guest worker programs because our country does need this cheap labor, and taxing it would be a huge benefit, but we would need true enforcement.

Why should we compensate people for breaking our laws. You've said yourself, they came here and lived a better life. There's their "compensation", during the time in which you were breaking the law and we didn't catch you you lived a better life. Congratulations, but now you DID break our law, and screwed up your chances.

Why do we need to COMPROMISE to Mexico? Seriously? They're government is benifiting already by our money being sent back to them. They're actively giving the nudge nudge wink wink for people to be jumping over. Because of this we should "Compromise" by helping them while we get....wht back exactly?

Quote:

For example you want to know who the illegals are and almost all of us knows where they are, but apparently we are not able to enforce laws because of certain anti descrimination protect etc. that doesn't let police inquire about immigration status? I could round up 100 a day on my way to work everyday. Doesn't seem like a difficult thing to enforce, yet our politicians trying to be diplomatic with Mexico, and avoid civil unrest in my opinion need to first offer the illegals something in return as this has been enabled for so long?

So you're saying we know where they are, we could get them, but we're too busy trying to compromise and be diplomatic with Mexico. So the answer to fix this is to....continue to compromise and be diplomatic with Mexico and just give the big shrug off and say "Hey, that whole breaking the law and giving the finger to all the people that are doing this legally thing...lets just forget that. welcome here!".

That...makes no sense at all.

Rogue · 04-02-08, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

I'm making the assumption that if we really crack down on enforcement and secure our borders that Mexico will show pictures of people dying on the news because the U.S. is not being mean spirited, and they may go to the international community. On top of that all of the pantsh@@ter groups will come out here in the US taking it to the streets and really creating havoc on our economy. Not just a few days of riots but completely shut down parts of our economy.

Oh my God! Mexico showing pictures of people dying to the international community? Who would care except left wing pro illegal marxists? The illegals and their enablers creating havoc? Shutting down parts of our economy? They might get away with something ONCE, but then that would wake up the sheeple and I welcome it.

Quote:

It would be like taking away heroin from a junkie. Our enabling Mexico is the heroin and Mexico and the illegals and all their supporters are the junkie.

Based on that assumption no politician is going to really make change unless they have a compromise. Maybe we could start with Mexico. A compromise that lets people come here on guest worker programs that we tax and know who they are. Workers that have been here illegally for 5 years etc. we let stay here, but they will have to register with Homeland Security. All day laborer lines at home depot for example will be targeted. Anyone without correct documentation will be deported unless they can substantiate that they have been employed five years or more with pay stubs etc.?

Well, not many Democratic politicians are willing to make changes because they are blatantly pandering to the Latinos for this new voter block and are trying to bring about a permanent Democratic majority even if it ruins the country.

All guest worker programs have a trap door at the bottom of them called the 14th amendment which allows a guest worker to come in, disappear into the shadows and have an anchor baby. Close the anchor baby loophole and I would be a lot more amenable to guest worker programs, as long as American workers are protected.

Awesome! · 04-02-08, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Where did I say they don't contribute? They do. But they contribute illegally, and large amounts also feed upon society as well. There are numbers up there to back up that they take less, and take more, so that can be ran around for ages. I'm just saying that its not a difinitive net gain, but that's not even the crux of my argument.

And what in the world does cheap labor abroad have to do with my argument?

Why should we compensate people for breaking our laws. You've said yourself, they came here and lived a better life. There's their "compensation", during the time in which you were breaking the law and we didn't catch you you lived a better life. Congratulations, but now you DID break our law, and screwed up your chances.

Why do we need to COMPROMISE to Mexico? Seriously? They're government is benifiting already by our money being sent back to them. They're actively giving the nudge nudge wink wink for people to be jumping over. Because of this we should "Compromise" by helping them while we get....wht back exactly?

So you're saying we know where they are, we could get them, but we're too busy trying to compromise and be diplomatic with Mexico. So the answer to fix this is to....continue to compromise and be diplomatic with Mexico and just give the big shrug off and say "Hey, that whole breaking the law and giving the finger to all the people that are doing this legally thing...lets just forget that. welcome here!".

That...makes no sense at all.

I agree with enforcement. My point is it's not possible with out a compromise. It's like prohibition in my opinion, not enforceable.

Awesome! · 04-02-08, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

Oh my God! Mexico showing pictures of people dying to the international community? Who would care except left wing pro illegal marxists? The illegals and their enablers creating havoc? Shutting down parts of our economy? They might get away with something ONCE, but then that would wake up the sheeple and I welcome it.

Well, not many Democratic politicians are willing to make changes because they are blatantly pandering to the Latinos for this new voter block and are trying to bring about a permanent Democratic majority even if it ruins the country.

All guest worker programs have a trap door at the bottom of them called the 14th amendment which allows a guest worker to come in, disappear into the shadows and have an anchor baby. Close the anchor baby loophole and I would be a lot more amenable to guest worker programs, as long as American workers are protected.

There would be a lot of pant@@itting if we really enforced immigration, lawsuits, marches, similar to the heady hippies who destroyed years of our nations potential. Would be a real mess because we have let it go on for so long, but maybe I am over the top in my assumption.

Zyphlin · 04-02-08, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

I agree with enforcement. My point is it's not possible with out a compromise. It's like prohibition in my opinion, not enforceable.

Why is it not possible without compromise though?

You just said how its not hard to find these people. Enforcement would mostly be getting the border shored up so its harder to get through, improving immigration laws so people can get in quicker and easier and perhaps setting up a guest worker program, and relaxing the regulations on our law enforcement officials for a specific amount of time in regards to their ability to assertain someones citizenship along with utilizing the false SSN numbers already known by the IRS.

The latter two things, put together, with a true and full commitment to find as many as possible in the quickest time and remove them immedietely, would likely work fine.

Explain to me why there's a need for compromise to make it work? What is the reason we'd HAVE to make these people citizens, forgiving of pass crimes and still putting them ahead of everyone that did this legally.

At most the "compromise" I would be in favor of is not causing them to be unable to go the legal route after they've been booted out.

Awesome! · 04-03-08, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zyphlin

Why is it not possible without compromise though?

You just said how its not hard to find these people. Enforcement would mostly be getting the border shored up so its harder to get through, improving immigration laws so people can get in quicker and easier and perhaps setting up a guest worker program, and relaxing the regulations on our law enforcement officials for a specific amount of time in regards to their ability to assertain someones citizenship along with utilizing the false SSN numbers already known by the IRS.

The latter two things, put together, with a true and full commitment to find as many as possible in the quickest time and remove them immedietely, would likely work fine.

Explain to me why there's a need for compromise to make it work? What is the reason we'd HAVE to make these people citizens, forgiving of pass crimes and still putting them ahead of everyone that did this legally.

At most the "compromise" I would be in favor of is not causing them to be unable to go the legal route after they've been booted out.

Well if our government could do all of that, then fine....In my opinion it's not likely to happen because our politicians do not want to deal with this directly, and that is why I think we need a compromise.

Rogue · 05-05-08, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

Well if our government could do all of that, then fine....In my opinion it's not likely to happen because our politicians do not want to deal with this directly, and that is why I think we need a compromise.

Our fed gov is totally dysfunctional, especially on illegal immigration. The Democratic party is trying to engineer a permanent majority by trying to pass an amnesty for the 20 million or so illegals in this country. These illegals are poor, ignorant, mostly uneducated, mostly don't speak English, and many are already on the gov teat, so they mostly would be Democratic voters if amnestied. Democratic politicians fight legislation like the SAVE Act which makes it tougher on illegals and on the employers of illegals, and could lead to the illegals self deporting themselves. A self deported illegal is just one less future Democratic voter so the Democratic party is fighting all tough on illegals legislation.

The majority of Republican politicians, finally realizing the consequences of giving amnesty to 20 million illegals, are starting to fight illegal immigration. The Democratic politicians are fighting the Republican politicians fighting illegal immigration.

If what I have just said has any truth to it, then why has the dumbass bush been trying to get an amnesty passed, that would give the Democrats a permanent majority? It could be he's willing to sell out the Republican party for his secret agenda of merging Mexico and the US in the NAU?

Awesome! · 05-05-08, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rogue

Our fed gov is totally dysfunctional, especially on illegal immigration. The Democratic party is trying to engineer a permanent majority by trying to pass an amnesty for the 20 million or so illegals in this country. These illegals are poor, ignorant, mostly uneducated, mostly don't speak English, and many are already on the gov teat, so they mostly would be Democratic voters if amnestied. Democratic politicians fight legislation like the SAVE Act which makes it tougher on illegals and on the employers of illegals, and could lead to the illegals self deporting themselves. A self deported illegal is just one less future Democratic voter so the Democratic party is fighting all tough on illegals legislation.

The majority of Republican politicians, finally realizing the consequences of giving amnesty to 20 million illegals, are starting to fight illegal immigration. The Democratic politicians are fighting the Republican politicians fighting illegal immigration.

If what I have just said has any truth to it, then why has the dumbass bush been trying to get an amnesty passed, that would give the Democrats a permanent majority? It could be he's willing to sell out the Republican party for his secret agenda of merging Mexico and the US in the NAU?

I think there is some truth to that, however like you have been pointing out, States can make things happen, like Arizona is doing with the EVerify system that was passed there. They fought it here in California so it didn't go through, however subcontractors for labor are using it as a selling tool now advising that we better make sure our temporary laborers are legit and use subcontractors that really put an effort into their audit process to make sure the workers they are sending to us are legal. I don't want to Everify all of them because we will probably lose all of our labor, but it's making us concerned because if it does become mandatory we will need to make some adjustments.