'At the limit,' Mexico buckles under migrant surge to U.S.

Moot · Jun 14, 2016

Mason66 said:
Well where did you get your information as to why they are leaving their countries.

How many of these children have you talked to?

Well, having lived in Los Angeles for twenty years one is bound to learn a thing or two about gangs and illegal immigration. It would be unwise not to.

Mason66 · Jun 14, 2016

Moot said:
Well, having lived in Los Angeles for twenty years one is bound to learn a thing or two about gangs and illegal immigration. It would be unwise not to.

That has nothing to do with the children that have been coming in for the past couple of years.

Absentglare · Jun 14, 2016

cpwill said:
That the US helped create? That's crazy talk.

Uhhhh... That's one hell of a red herring.

Do you not realize that the American demand for illegal drugs is what primarily feeds wealth into the drug cartels ?

Moot · Jun 14, 2016

Mason66 said:
That has nothing to do with the children that have been coming in for the past couple of years.

No, but it does help explain my 'assumptions'. So how come you don't know anything about NAFTA, corn dumping in Mexico, US and CIA involvement in Central America, war on drugs and the exportation of US gang culture that created turmoil in the region? Because if you knew about those things...then you wouldn't have to ask such a silly question about why the children are coming here.

clownboy · Jun 14, 2016

Moot said:
No, but it does help explain my 'assumptions'. So how come you don't know anything about NAFTA, corn dumping in Mexico, US and CIA involvement in Central America and the exportation of US gang culture that create turmoil in the region? Because if you knew about those things...then you wouldn't have to ask such a silly question about why the children are coming here.

Well, if all those things were "imported" to Mexico from here as you believe, then it would invalidate your supposition as to why those children are coming here.

Moot · Jun 14, 2016

clownboy said:
Well, if all those things were "imported" to Mexico from here as you believe, then it would invalidate your supposition as to why those children are coming here.

I believe I said "exported" which just invalidated your attempt to change my supposition into a strawman.

U.S. export: Central America’s gang problem began in Los Angeles | McClatchy DC

clownboy · Jun 14, 2016

Moot said:
I believe I said "exported" which just invalidated your attempt to change my supposition into a strawman.

U.S. export: Central Americaâ€™s gang problem began in Los Angeles | McClatchy DC

Actually no. Exported from and imported to both break your supposition, because they are the same thing in this context. If they are fleeing gang culture why would they flee to the place YOU assert that gang culture was exported from? That's like frying pan into the fire.

And that McClatchy piece is bull****. Mexico has had gangs since before it was New Spain.

Moot · Jun 14, 2016

clownboy said:
Actually no. Exported from and imported to both break your supposition, because they are the same thing in this context. If they are fleeing gang culture why would they flee to the place YOU assert that gang culture was exported from? That's like frying pan into the fire.

And that McClatchy piece is bull****. Mexico has had gangs since before it was New Spain.

McClatchy didn't say anything that wasn't in the 1988 Committee on Foreign Relations report. So if you don't like my source then go find your own and prove me wrong.

To understand you'd have to learn about what transpired in the 1980s and how the CIA instigated civil wars in Central America to over throw democratically elected governments that dared to go against US corporate interests. They used PSYOPS on American citizens to hide their illegal activity down there...

"...The S/LPD collaborated with Central Intelligence Agency propaganda experts and Army psychological operations specialists to disseminate what it called "white propaganda" with the goal of influencing public opinion and spurring Congress to continue to fund the Reagan administration's military campaign against Nicaragua's Sandinista government. By covertly disseminating intelligence leaks to journalists, it sought to trump up a Nicaraguan "threat," and to sanctify the U.S.-backed Contra guerrillas fighting Nicaragua's government as "freedom fighters."

The S/LPD drafted pro-Reagan op-ed pieces that ran under fabricated bylines in U.S. newspapers. It also planted stories designed to embarrass or contradict the Sandinista regime. In addition to manipulating the press, the S/LPD also supplied information to pro-Reagan lobbying groups and political organizations that favored the Contra war...".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Public_Diplomacy

And when congress refused to fund the contras....Reagan went behind their back and used drug trafficking and arms trade to pay for his dirty little wars.

"...The secret contra assistance was run by the National Security Council, with officer Lt. Col. Oliver North in charge.[52] With the third-party funds, North created an organization called "The Enterprise" which served as the secret arm of the NSC staff and had its own airplanes, pilots, airfield, ship, operatives and secret Swiss bank accounts.[51] It also received assistance from personnel from other government agencies, especially from CIA personnel in Central America.[51] This operation functioned, however, without any of the accountability required of U.S. government activities.[51] The Enterprise's efforts culminated in the Iran–Contra Affair of 1986–1987, which facilitated contra funding through the proceeds of arms sales to Iran.

According to the National Security Archive, Oliver North had been in contact with Manuel Noriega, the military leader of Panama later convicted on drug charges, whom he personally met. The issue of drug money and its importance in funding the Nicaraguan conflict was the subject of various reports and publications. The contras were funded by drug trafficking, of which the United States was aware.[53] Senator John Kerry's 1988 Committee on Foreign Relations report on Contra drug links concluded that "senior U.S. policy makers were not immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras' funding problems".[54]

The Reagan administration's support for the Contras continued to stir controversy well into the 1990s. In August 1996, San Jose Mercury News reporter Gary Webb published a series titled Dark Alliance, alleging that the contras contributed to the rise of crack cocaine in California.[55]...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras#Illegal_covert_operations

So that's how the drug trafficking and cartels got it's start and how cocaine made it's way into the US. But that's all I have time for now. So, your homework for tonight, Clownboy, is to read the above links and write a 200 to 500 word essay with links to credible sources about Iran-Contra. Cheating, revisionism, biased sources, diversions, hyperbole will not be accepted. You will be graded on your effort, comprehension, vocabulary...and worthiness of my future voluntary efforts to educate you.

Mason66 · Jun 15, 2016

Moot said:
No, but it does help explain my 'assumptions'. So how come you don't know anything about NAFTA, corn dumping in Mexico, US and CIA involvement in Central America, war on drugs and the exportation of US gang culture that created turmoil in the region? Because if you knew about those things...then you wouldn't have to ask such a silly question about why the children are coming here.

I will zero in on this one.

The US gang culture was exported from where to where?

Mason66 · Jun 15, 2016

Moot said:
McClatchy didn't say anything that wasn't in the 1988 Committee on Foreign Relations report. So if you don't like my source then go find your own and prove me wrong.

To understand you'd have to learn about what transpired in the 1980s and how the CIA instigated civil wars in Central America to over throw democratically elected governments that dared to go against US corporate interests. They used PSYOPS on American citizens to hide their illegal activity down there...

"...The S/LPD collaborated with Central Intelligence Agency propaganda experts and Army psychological operations specialists to disseminate what it called "white propaganda" with the goal of influencing public opinion and spurring Congress to continue to fund the Reagan administration's military campaign against Nicaragua's Sandinista government. By covertly disseminating intelligence leaks to journalists, it sought to trump up a Nicaraguan "threat," and to sanctify the U.S.-backed Contra guerrillas fighting Nicaragua's government as "freedom fighters."

The S/LPD drafted pro-Reagan op-ed pieces that ran under fabricated bylines in U.S. newspapers. It also planted stories designed to embarrass or contradict the Sandinista regime. In addition to manipulating the press, the S/LPD also supplied information to pro-Reagan lobbying groups and political organizations that favored the Contra war...".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Public_Diplomacy

And when congress refused to fund the contras....Reagan went behind their back and used drug trafficking and arms trade to pay for his dirty little wars.

"...The secret contra assistance was run by the National Security Council, with officer Lt. Col. Oliver North in charge.[52] With the third-party funds, North created an organization called "The Enterprise" which served as the secret arm of the NSC staff and had its own airplanes, pilots, airfield, ship, operatives and secret Swiss bank accounts.[51] It also received assistance from personnel from other government agencies, especially from CIA personnel in Central America.[51] This operation functioned, however, without any of the accountability required of U.S. government activities.[51] The Enterprise's efforts culminated in the Iran–Contra Affair of 1986–1987, which facilitated contra funding through the proceeds of arms sales to Iran.

According to the National Security Archive, Oliver North had been in contact with Manuel Noriega, the military leader of Panama later convicted on drug charges, whom he personally met. The issue of drug money and its importance in funding the Nicaraguan conflict was the subject of various reports and publications. The contras were funded by drug trafficking, of which the United States was aware.[53] Senator John Kerry's 1988 Committee on Foreign Relations report on Contra drug links concluded that "senior U.S. policy makers were not immune to the idea that drug money was a perfect solution to the Contras' funding problems".[54]

The Reagan administration's support for the Contras continued to stir controversy well into the 1990s. In August 1996, San Jose Mercury News reporter Gary Webb published a series titled Dark Alliance, alleging that the contras contributed to the rise of crack cocaine in California.[55]...."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contras#Illegal_covert_operations

So that's how the drug trafficking and cartels got it's start and how cocaine made it's way into the US. But that's all I have time for now. So, your homework for tonight, Clownboy, is to read the above links and write a 200 to 500 word essay with links to credible sources about Iran-Contra. Cheating, revisionism, biased sources, diversions, hyperbole will not be accepted. You will be graded on your effort, comprehension, vocabulary...and worthiness of my future voluntary efforts to educate you.

OK, lets take this at face value that this happened in the '80s.

Have the countries been frozen for 30 years?

You are trying to explain why children are leaving their countries now with something that happened 30 years ago.

Do you have anything more recent as ammunition?

Moot · Jun 15, 2016

clownboy said:
Actually no. Exported from and imported to both break your supposition, because they are the same thing in this context. If they are fleeing gang culture why would they flee to the place YOU assert that gang culture was exported from? That's like frying pan into the fire.

Who said they were fleeing to Los Angeles? Most of them were trying to cross in through Texas. The children are fleeing from a war zone....the US is not a war zone...yet.

And that McClatchy piece is bull****. Mexico has had gangs since before it was New Spain.

Link?

Moot · Jun 15, 2016

Mason66 said:
OK, lets take this at face value that this happened in the '80s.

Have the countries been frozen for 30 years?

You are trying to explain why children are leaving their countries now with something that happened 30 years ago.

Do you have anything more recent as ammunition?

Oh so sorry, you just got an F- for lack of effort, comprehension and worthiness of my time.