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How Much Would Mexico Pay to Prevent Deportation

We need the immigrants, and we could do far worse than the people coming up from Mexico.
American culture is going to change weather we like it or not, the traditional American family is
simply not producing enough children to sustain our culture.
Who we add to the mix will have a lot to do with what the future USA will be like.
Adding motivated family oriented Catholics from Mexico, is likely the path to change our culture the least.
We need laws to allow those who have come here seeking a better life, a way to come out of the shadows,
while excluding the criminal element.
 
americanwoman said:
You don't dare step into a barrio yet you know exactly how it is? Weird.
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Because I have on occassion stepped into them.

I see my neighborhood completely different. Yes we speak Spanish but mostly the adults, all the kids speak more English and are way more into American culture. Drugs and crime, like lower/ middle class white neighborhoods don't deal with the same issues?
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And if you step into their neighborhood they'll yell at you and say "hey ese, this is our barrio, this is no place for gringos."
 
americanwoman said:
You don't dare step into a barrio yet you know exactly how it is? Weird. I see my neighborhood completely different. Yes we speak Spanish but mostly the adults, all the kids speak more English and are way more into American culture. Drugs and crime, like lower/ middle class white neighborhoods don't deal with the same issues?
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I cant find any decent barbacoa or lengua unless I go to the barrio.
To be fair my wife makes a good lengua, but the price of tongue has been going up lately.
 
chuckiechan said:
In California, Mexican labor both legal and illegal have pushed blacks out of good jobs and whored out the wage base at the same time, pushing more people on to welfare. Mexicans are hard workers, don't complain, and do their jobs. But we can't care about that. We have citizen mouths to feed. It's a double benefit to take a person off welfare and get them working.

Then we have the issue of Hispanic racism. They are very clannish, and don't care to work with blacks. They smile at your face, but they generally really dislike "white people", as if you have something to do with their poverty.

I won't go into drugs, gangs, barrios, and the theft of services from US taxpayers hat have become a cottage industry.
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While we are at it, we should lay some blame on the US. We let people in because we wanted cheap labor. We enabled, we drew them in. Now we want to reverse the situation and it ain't gonna happen.
As for drugs, gangs and theft of services from US taxpayers...we have Americans who are doing that in record numbers, some of them with some fancy business names, some of them might have been once deserving but are making it a multi generation career.
Who is to blame? Who is to be punished? Mexicans?
Don't get me wrong. I am strictly against all illegal immigration, but I won't punish hard working people for answering the call.
 
phattonez said:
Because I have on occassion stepped into them. And if you step into their neighborhood they'll yell at you and say "hey ese, this is our barrio, this is no place for gringos."
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I'd opine they would say- 'this is no place for punk meat', and they'd be correct. Never heard a dude yell ese, usually that volume is pushing a more salty word...

FYI I was never yelled at, mostly ignored, do you wear a sign or something that attracts attention??? :peace
 
phattonez said:
Because I have on occassion stepped into them.



And if you step into their neighborhood they'll yell at you and say "hey ese, this is our barrio, this is no place for gringos."
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As opposed to minorites stepping into an upper class mostly white neighborhood? You think they don't do the same, perhaps just more discreetly like calling the cops.
 
Lovebug said:
While we are at it, we should lay some blame on the US. We let people in because we wanted cheap labor. We enabled, we drew them in. Now we want to reverse the situation and it ain't gonna happen.
As for drugs, gangs and theft of services from US taxpayers...we have Americans who are doing that in record numbers, some of them with some fancy business names, some of them might have been once deserving but are making it a multi generation career.
Who is to blame? Who is to be punished? Mexicans?
Don't get me wrong. I am strictly against all illegal immigration, but I won't punish hard working people for answering the call.
Click to expand...
People also tend to forget that all those illegal workers are paying social security taxes, and witholding
on SS numbers that the person may not even be alive, yet the federal government, does not complain
about extra money coming in.
 
Lovebug said:
While we are at it, we should lay some blame on the US. We let people in because we wanted cheap labor. We enabled, we drew them in. Now we want to reverse the situation and it ain't gonna happen.
As for drugs, gangs and theft of services from US taxpayers...we have Americans who are doing that in record numbers, some of them with some fancy business names, some of them might have been once deserving but are making it a multi generation career.
Who is to blame? Who is to be punished? Mexicans?
Don't get me wrong. I am strictly against all illegal immigration, but I won't punish hard working people for answering the call.
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"We" were never consulted. "We" did not vote for a president who was planning to change the nations demographic. Obama never mentioned it when he was running, and the MSM dared not bring it up.

His motives were to destroy the Republican party and the middle class that supports it, by creating a new voting block of low wage, easily unionized labor. While some may celebrate the demise of the middle class as collateral damage in destroying the Republicans, you still won't be any better off economically because the government insiders will never tilt the playing field your way.

I agree with E verify as a federal law, and I agree that we should remove hard working illegal aliens from their jobs. If an American won't fill it, offer more money until it's filled or close your doors since you were cheating the system anyway.
 
notquiteright said:
I'd opine they would say- 'this is no place for punk meat', and they'd be correct. Never heard a dude yell ese, usually that volume is pushing a more salty word...

FYI I was never yelled at, mostly ignored, do you wear a sign or something that attracts attention??? :peace
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It's probably different in Los Angeles compared to Oklahoma.
 
americanwoman said:
As opposed to minorites stepping into an upper class mostly white neighborhood? You think they don't do the same, perhaps just more discreetly like calling the cops.
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There's no threat of violence, as far as I've seen. And in those upper class mostly white neighborhoods people usually say hello to you as you walk down the street.
 
Ntharotep said:
They don't have to agree to pay for the wall.
Trump will make them pay for the wall because "He's a great leader."
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I'm thinking Trump will make them pay for the wall because he's got them over a barrel...and they know it. Why else would they be so defensive that they'll attack him? They fear him and the money he is likely to cause them.
 
Mycroft said:
I'm thinking Trump will make them pay for the wall because he's got them over a barrel...and they know it. Why else would they be so defensive that they'll attack him? They fear him and the money he is likely to cause them.
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How? I don't mean to be difficult, but how?
 
Lovebug said:
How? I don't mean to be difficult, but how?
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If he can convince Congress to...

1. impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages

2. increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them)

3. increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays)

4. increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays)

5. increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico

6. Tariffs and foreign aid cuts as an option

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

...he would cost Mexico so much money to their country and their citizens that it would be cheaper for them to pay for the wall.
 
phattonez said:
Let's be honest here. The government of Mexico loves illegal immigration. They get to dump their least wanted citizens on another country, and then they get a ton of money imported into their country while people work in the US. It's a win-win.
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So much garbage here it's ridiculous. Mexico does not want any of it's people leaving the country. Particularly not the type of good hardworking people that are heading to the U.S. Their departure leaves a void in the country that makes it easier for the really bad people to get control of it. That's why large parts of mexico are controlled by gangs and drug dealers. Rational people in rational countries recognize that immigration is a good thing. You want as many people coming to your country as you can possibly get. The types of people that are willing to uproot themselves and move to another country are the exact types of entrepreneurial risk takers that can really benefit an economy.


phattonez said:
Would they even agree to pay to build a wall between the two countries?
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No, but not because they want people leaving because they realize it would be morally impermissible to trap them in Mexico against their will. The notion of Mexico paying to build a wall around it's own country is so ****ing delusional it boggles the mind. You're essentially asking Mexico to turn itself into a prison and treat it's own citizens as prisoners. That's precisely how East Germans felt about the Berlin Wall. They were being treated as prisoners within their own country. It was abhorrent. That's why Ronald Reagan said "Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall." The fact that the Republican party is uniting behind a candidate that wants to build another wall really just proves how far removed from reality and from the principles of Ronald Reagan the republican party has shifted.
 
MrWonka said:
So much garbage here it's ridiculous. Mexico does not want any of it's people leaving the country.
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Right, so what are they doing to prevent it?

Particularly not the type of good hardworking people that are heading to the U.S. Their departure leaves a void in the country that makes it easier for the really bad people to get control of it. That's why large parts of mexico are controlled by gangs and drug dealers.
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Mexico is making a killing off of the drug trade, and many of its politicians are bought off by drug lords.

Rational people in rational countries recognize that immigration is a good thing. You want as many people coming to your country as you can possibly get. The types of people that are willing to uproot themselves and move to another country are the exact types of entrepreneurial risk takers that can really benefit an economy.
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Tell that to Europe and the more than 50% of immigrant households in this country who are on welfare. Some reports have found more than 60% of illegal households are on welfare.
 
phattonez said:
Right, so what are they doing to prevent it?
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Trying to improve their own economy. Unfortunately when millions of consumers leave the country every year it can be very difficult to keep a business up and running. That's why tourism is so essential to Mexico. American's going down there to visit spend money. That's basically the only economy they have.

phattonez said:
Mexico is making a killing off of the drug trade, and many of its politicians are bought off by drug lords.
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Some are sure, but that wont change as a result of a stupid wall. Drug traffickers will just find other ways to get their product across. If you want to fix that problem we should legalize drugs


phattonez said:
Tell that to Europe
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Most economists have been, but unfortunately irrational populist rage has won the day.



phattonez said:
Some reports have found more than 60% of illegal households are on welfare.
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Probably because it's hard to find people to hire you when you don't have legal papers. We should fix that by making them legal immigrants.
 
MrWonka said:
Trying to improve their own economy. Unfortunately when millions of consumers leave the country every year it can be very difficult to keep a business up and running. That's why tourism is so essential to Mexico. American's going down there to visit spend money. That's basically the only economy they have.
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That's not really an answer. Wouldn't trying to prevent illegal immigration to the US help them keep their own citizens?

Some are sure, but that wont change as a result of a stupid wall. Drug traffickers will just find other ways to get their product across. If you want to fix that problem we should legalize drugs
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A wall goes a long way to stopping the flow of drugs.

Most economists have been, but unfortunately irrational populist rage has won the day.
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That and an epidemic of refugees raping citizens.

Probably because it's hard to find people to hire you when you don't have legal papers. We should fix that by making them legal immigrants.
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About 50% of legal immigrants are on welfare, so that's not true.
 
phattonez said:
Let's be honest here. The government of Mexico loves illegal immigration. They get to dump their least wanted citizens on another country, and then they get a ton of money imported into their country while people work in the US. It's a win-win. So here's my question: say a US president threatens mass deportation. Mexico would lose big time. They would lost that sweet money that was coming in from relatives, and would instead get a ton of welfare cases? What would Mexico pay to prevent that?

Would they even agree to pay to build a wall between the two countries?
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"Extortion", look it up.
Nope, they are not going to pay for it.
 
phattonez said:
Receive welfare money, wire it to Mexico. And I'm aware that many work, but to deny the fact that they use a ton of welfare is simply liberal garbage.
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At the very least we feed, clothe, and house a ton of their criminal class in out jails.

We also take it upon ourselves to do the job of educating the children.
 
Mycroft said:
If he can convince Congress to...

1. impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages

2. increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them)

3. increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays)

4. increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays)

5. increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico

6. Tariffs and foreign aid cuts as an option

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

...he would cost Mexico so much money to their country and their citizens that it would be cheaper for them to pay for the wall.
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Nope, Your ideas would only mean more would come here illegally, you do not seem to have thought that out very well, a true Trump supporter
 
Pfffft. Mexico can't pay us to ignore our laws. It the principle of the thing. Er, how much we talkin here...I mean, if we're going to ignore the law anyway at least we could get a ballpark figure...
 
Casper said:
Nope, Your ideas would only mean more would come here illegally, you do not seem to have thought that out very well, a true Trump supporter
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1. I'm not a supporter of anybody at this point, but that doesn't mean I cannot or won't consider issues.

2. The only way more could come here illegally is if the wall doesn't get built and if our country continues on the current track of paying lip-service to the law while doing very little to enforce the law.

In any case, I'm interested in hearing your justification for your contention for how those steps would mean that more would come here illegally.
 
Mycroft said:
1. I'm not a supporter of anybody at this point, but that doesn't mean I cannot or won't consider issues.

2. The only way more could come here illegally is if the wall doesn't get built and if our country continues on the current track of paying lip-service to the law while doing very little to enforce the law.

In any case, I'm interested in hearing your justification for your contention for how those steps would mean that more would come here illegally.
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If you make it more difficult for someone to come here legally they will come here illegally, does that fact escape you?
 
Mycroft said:
If he can convince Congress to...

1. impound all remittance payments derived from illegal wages

2. increase fees on all temporary visas issued to Mexican CEOs and diplomats (and if necessary cancel them)

3. increase fees on all border crossing cards – of which we issue about 1 million to Mexican nationals each year (a major source of visa overstays)

4. increase fees on all NAFTA worker visas from Mexico (another major source of overstays)

5. increase fees at ports of entry to the United States from Mexico

6. Tariffs and foreign aid cuts as an option

https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/immigration-reform

...he would cost Mexico so much money to their country and their citizens that it would be cheaper for them to pay for the wall.
Click to expand...

These are fine ideas and proposals. It all seems very simple, lots of common sense to simplify it for the masses. It is just not very realistic, esp since we don't know what type of congress he will have to work with. American sentiment seems to be in his favor, but that can chance quickly, locally.
Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than have the clock dial back to the Reagan amnesty and start from scratch. My first agenda, if I had to throw out some ideas, would be insisting on a common language. Speak what you want at home, but when out in public, speak English. Spanish speakers aren't our only immigrants, illegal or legal, and we must see to that all our 'guests' are being treated fairly.
I don't want to make it difficult for foreigners. Just the opposite. English in schools and when communicating when out and about makes it easier to obtain i.e. medical services, better jobs, even ask for help etc.
 
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