What does more damage than H1B Visas?

I have noticed companies using more and more India based IT people. They stay located in India, while the company arranges office space there. Does this trend render the H1B visa program irrelevant? One company I worked for had offshore resources writing horrendous code that was like a labyrinth to step through and follow. I pushed and insisted on quality code. However the company was "all-in" regarding doing things offshore. I moved on elsewhere and the rest of the US based team requested and were granted transfers to different projects. Now the horrific code is preferred because it's "cheaper". Shoddy quality beats craftsmanship.

It justified by fact at America doesn't have enough programmers. And they work cheap, don't complain and their time zone fits ours.

For example I would do an architectural detail for a customer. By the next morning it was in an e mail with engineering calculations attached, ready to be certified by the architect to be put in the plans as a "detail".

But, all they saved was a day on something not that important, time wise. Bottom line: it's cheap.

H-1B visas are supposed to be for jobs that Americans can't fill. It's all a bunch of crap. I know where I used to work there would be job postings that were never intended to be filled. Then they justified creating positions overseas to fill the positions in India.

And that's not even getting into the hiring immigrants, training the immigrants, then shipping the jobs overseas and firing the American workers. The talk about "we don't have the Americans with the skills" is just loaded garbage. It's obvious propoganda.

I get so many health care claims processors from India or The Phillipines and they don't know what the hell they're doing but it's cheap so it doesn't matter.

That is exactly how my sister lost her job. She had to train the people from India to take her job.

PIPEWRENCH said:

That is exactly how my sister lost her job. She had to train the people from India to take her job.

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Where did she used to work?

PIPEWRENCH said:

That is exactly how my sister lost her job. She had to train the people from India to take her job.

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Were the people she trained situated in the US or in India?

What leaves me scratching my head is that I saw this coming and made it a point to outwork, out think and out study offshore resources. I come to the table more than happy to train offshore resources. I was also determined that if I was going to train them, to do it with pride and do it right. I was constantly butting heads with the India based manager who always wanted to take the lazy way out of solving a problem that would come back to bite them later. Either deliberately or through lack of know-how, their code was extremely difficult to maintain and full of hidden "secrets". Middle management was thrilled to see that I trying to instill pride in the offshore team. Upper management didn't seem to care. My US-based manager (himself an Indian immigrant) even gave me advanced warning that no budget had yet been approved to renew my contract. I was able to move on to a permanent job that paid the same as I was earning as a contractor. I can't help but wonder if they will re-shore when things stop working.

State Farm Insurance. They were brought here by the company and she trained them here along with other workers. She does something with the computer programming. But where she worked was a phone center and main office that you called if working on claims. The upper white collar moved to major cities and the actual workers were dumped in the unemployment line. All the jobs they knew how to do have bent sent overseas where labor is cheap and benefits don't exist. My sister has found similar work but has taken a substantial cut in pay and lost her retirement and benefits. She is part of those great employment numbers where you now make half what you used to make.

Her Husband lost his job as well in 2009. The company let go all the higher paid employees and restructured. Another words cut the union workers, benefits, and wages. His job is now being done by our slave labor from south of the border. I won't mention the name but it was a distribution center for an expensive high end chain of stores. He was in receiving and those type of jobs are now paying minimum wage and no benefits. Again thanks to slave labor from south of the border allowing rich companies to get around paying a livable wage. It is tough for him to fit in because he doesn't speak Spanish.

SDET said:

Were the people she trained situated in the US or in India?

What leaves me scratching my head is that I saw this coming and made it a point to outwork, out think and out study offshore resources. I come to the table more than happy to train offshore resources. I was also determined that if I was going to train them, to do it with pride and do it right. I was constantly butting heads with the India based manager who always wanted to take the lazy way out of solving a problem that would come back to bite them later. Either deliberately or through lack of know-how, their code was extremely difficult to maintain and full of hidden "secrets". Middle management was thrilled to see that I trying to instill pride in the offshore team. Upper management didn't seem to care. My US-based manager (himself an Indian immigrant) even gave me advanced warning that no budget had yet been approved to renew my contract. I was able to move on to a permanent job that paid the same as I was earning as a contractor. I can't help but wonder if they will re-shore when things stop working.

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They did want her to go to India to help them through all the problems. She refused and went on to look for a job. She could not see herself sharpening the knife they were going to stab her in the back with.

PIPEWRENCH said:

They did want her to go to India to help them through all the problems. She refused and went on to look for a job. She could not see herself sharpening the knife they were going to stab her in the back with.

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When in that situation, the way to make it work is to offer to do it as a consultant at a minimum of US$ 75 per hour. Make it pay. Be thorough and carefully document the incompetencies offshore which are many. I have no trouble finding work, but move on frequently. I force companies to acknowledge that they are getting what they don't pay for. Used hay (after it has been digested by the horse) is cheaper than new hay. SOME companies are waking up and re-shoring.

My daughter in law was with Franklin funds and had to train her replacement in order to get her severance.

SDET said:

When in that situation, the way to make it work is to offer to do it as a consultant at a minimum of US$ 75 per hour. Make it pay. Be thorough and carefully document the incompetencies offshore which are many. I have no trouble finding work, but move on frequently. I force companies to acknowledge that they are getting what they don't pay for. Used hay (after it has been digested by the horse) is cheaper than new hay. SOME companies are waking up and re-shoring.

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They acted as if they were doing her a favor letting her work long enough to train people. Where my brother in law worked was a restructure. Get rid of union people making a livable wage for cheap slave labor. Hillary will give industry millions of legal cheap labor to do the same elsewhere if she becomes president. She has already stated she will reward people entering this country illegally with a citizenship. Just what the middle class needs more cheap labor along with machines to force them out of their jobs and into poverty.

chuckiechan said:

My daughter in law was with Franklin funds and had to train her replacement in order to get her severance.

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That almost has the stench of extortion.

I'm sure she had to sign documents saying it was voluntary.

Roadvirus said:

That almost has the stench of extortion.

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That's always how it works. Otherwise people would walk off the job immediately.

SDET said:

I have noticed companies using more and more India based IT people.

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Noticed how? By talking to your buddies? Or by looking at actual statistics?

Does this trend render the H1B visa program irrelevant?

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1) Isn't this "trend" over a decade old?
2) Isn't this "trend" so old that companies are already onshoring programming again? (e.g. Economist article from 2013: On the turn | The Economist)
3) H1B is not exclusively reserved for programmers.

Note that I don't have the stats ready to hand, but I don't think there is a huge surge now in offshoring tech jobs, that's mostly over with. Frankly, I'm surprised that a company today is willing to sacrifice quality in exchange for cheaper code, but if that's true, I don't think they will be around long.

Shoddy quality beats craftsmanship.

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...except for the companies that have already learned their lesson, and are onshoring programming again.

What you say may be true. What good does that do all the people who lost their jobs in their 40s and 50s. Their retirement they were lead to believe in was taken away along with their house, and their personal savings towards retirement. What good does this do the people that have taken lower paying jobs without benefits or pension? What did our government do to help these people. They were too busy making sure the billionaire bankers kept their private jets and their multi million dollar pensions. Once again the government does nothing for the hard working citizen but rewards the people who screw up. We need change and the kind that is all that is left in peoples pockets.

PIPEWRENCH said:

What you say may be true. What good does that do all the people who lost their jobs in their 40s and 50s. Their retirement they were lead to believe in was taken away along with their house, and their personal savings towards retirement. What good does this do the people that have taken lower paying jobs without benefits or pension? What did our government do to help these people. They were too busy making sure the billionaire bankers kept their private jets and their multi million dollar pensions. Once again the government does nothing for the hard working citizen but rewards the people who screw up. We need change and the kind that is all that is left in peoples pockets.

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I'm in my 50s and have been put on the bench several times. There seems to be more job security in being the guy writing the code and not managing other people. They pay is something like 80% of what a manager makes. It's important to stay current and know most of what recent college grads know. It means studying your butt off, but it's worth it.

SDET said:

I'm in my 50s and have been put on the bench several times. There seems to be more job security in being the guy writing the code and not managing other people. They pay is something like 80% of what a manager makes. It's important to stay current and know most of what recent college grads know. It means studying your butt off, but it's worth it.

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I have done the same thing. I am in 50's as well. Believe it or not but my mom still goes to school every year and still works.

I had to go to college and take courses on controls. Everything is electronic today. Luckily our company and the factory reps have classes for free on all the new equipment as it comes out. To day you have to be certified to work on just about everything Heating and AC. I go to several classes every year to get certified in all the equipment we sell.

I have so many certifications I am certifiable.::cuckoo:

PIPEWRENCH said:

I have done the same thing. I am in 50's as well. Believe it or not but my mom still goes to school every year and still works.

I had to go to college and take courses on controls. Everything is electronic today. Luckily our company and the factory reps have classes for free on all the new equipment as it comes out. To day you have to be certified to work on just about everything Heating and AC. I go to several classes every year to get certified in all the equipment we sell.

I have so many certifications I am certifiable.::cuckoo:

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It's the same with Insurance. It doesn't pay nearly as well as programming but it'll be a cold day in hell before my job gets outsourced to Mexico/Phillipines/China/India.

reinoe said:

It's the same with Insurance. It doesn't pay nearly as well as programming but it'll be a cold day in hell before my job gets outsourced to Mexico/Phillipines/China/India.

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I sure hope not. The problem is they already have Esurance. I have a bad feeling the nest agent I get will be someone from India pretending to speak English and understanding what I am trying to say. God help us.

I had a problem with a Samsung surround sound system. I have never been treated this bad as a customer in my entire life. I was ready to by a plane ticket over there just to punch someone in the face. I will never buy anything from Samsung again. I will do without before dealing with that company again.

SDET said:

I have noticed companies using more and more India based IT people. They stay located in India, while the company arranges office space there. Does this trend render the H1B visa program irrelevant? One company I worked for had offshore resources writing horrendous code that was like a labyrinth to step through and follow. I pushed and insisted on quality code. However the company was "all-in" regarding doing things offshore. I moved on elsewhere and the rest of the US based team requested and were granted transfers to different projects. Now the horrific code is preferred because it's "cheaper". Shoddy quality beats craftsmanship.

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Do you work in IT for a major Silicon Valley company? If not..you really don't know squat. Our H1B folk typically make more than the US folk.

Show your bona fides newbie.