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Why Are Any of These Proposals Controversial?

phattonez

phattonez

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Imagine a politician who said the following things:

No illegal immigrants will receive any public assistance of any kind. No education. No healthcare. No public services. In fact, if a public official discovers that you are an illegal immigrant, that official must report it to immigration officials to process for deportation.

Legal immigrants will not receive welfare benefits until they have been in this country for 5 years and have been working throughout that time. Non-working immigrants will be allowed in, but will never be allowed welfare benefits, neither for them nor for their children, until they establish a work record for 5 years.

Speaking of children, the children of illegal immigrants born in this country are not citizens. You should not be rewarded for sneaking into this country and having a child here.

All immigrants must speak rudimentary English before being accepted into the country.

Each city will have a cap of only 10% foreign-born in the population allowed at a time. If you are petitioning to come into the country, you are only allowed to move to a city with less than 10% of that city's population foreign-born. Ethnic enclaves are not to encouraged, and rapid assimilation is desired.

Current illegal immigrants with citizen children will be deported. If they want to take their children with them they may, but the parents cannot stay here and cannot re-enter the country until they are permitted to legally immigrate.

Sanctuary cities which harbor illegal immigrants will lose all federal funding of all programs and projects.

A border wall will be constructed. National sovereignty will be respected.
Click to expand...

Yet none of these things is politically feasible in this current climate. Heck, even discussion of a wall on the border is super controversial! Why is this? The liberal establishment LOVES immigrants. Poor immigrants come into this country, gobble up welfare benefits through their anchor babies, and now Democrats have a voter for life. That's all that this is about. This is why Democrats have no respect for national sovereignty. This is how they win elections.

You want a microcosm for what's going to happen to the country? In 1994 Californians passed Proposition 187, which would have done what the first proposal in this list stated. Californians passed it (yes, we're not all liberal zombies), but it was swiftly declared unconstitutional and it was never enacted. Since that time, immigration has continued unabated, and Republicans have not been able to win the senate or the governor's office (outside of Schwarzenegger who was worthless) or any senate seats. And the Republicans in this state are bullied into submission on everything. Now the state is mostly Hispanic, not white, and cities like Los Angeles have a population that is 40% foreign-born! 40%. No wonder this is a cultural wasteland. And let's not compare this to European immigration. These immigrants are still fiercely loyal to Mexico (let's admit it, they're mostly Mexican) and would like for California to once again be a part of Mexico. Even Antonio Villaraigosa was a member of the odious MEChA, which seeks to annex the entire southwest back to Mexico.

But bring any of this up, talk about sovereignty or the fact that Mexican immigrants don't particularly like us, and you'll be labeled a racist, a xenophobe, a jingoist, and every other type of slur. Don't forget, these aren't arguments. What it means is that they have no response to this, and that you are right.

And that is why Donald Trump is winning elections. Immigration is a BIG deal, and people are sick of being told to be quiet while their culture is being overrun and their hometowns turn into ghettos.
 
phattonez said:
Imagine a politician who said the following things:



Yet none of these things is politically feasible in this current climate. Heck, even discussion of a wall on the border is super controversial! Why is this? The liberal establishment LOVES immigrants. Poor immigrants come into this country, gobble up welfare benefits through their anchor babies, and now Democrats have a voter for life. That's all that this is about. This is why Democrats have no respect for national sovereignty. This is how they win elections.

You want a microcosm for what's going to happen to the country? In 1994 Californians passed Proposition 187, which would have done what the first proposal in this list stated. Californians passed it (yes, we're not all liberal zombies), but it was swiftly declared unconstitutional and it was never enacted. Since that time, immigration has continued unabated, and Republicans have not been able to win the senate or the governor's office (outside of Schwarzenegger who was worthless) or any senate seats. And the Republicans in this state are bullied into submission on everything. Now the state is mostly Hispanic, not white, and cities like Los Angeles have a population that is 40% foreign-born! 40%. No wonder this is a cultural wasteland. And let's not compare this to European immigration. These immigrants are still fiercely loyal to Mexico (let's admit it, they're mostly Mexican) and would like for California to once again be a part of Mexico. Even Antonio Villaraigosa was a member of the odious MEChA, which seeks to annex the entire southwest back to Mexico.

But bring any of this up, talk about sovereignty or the fact that Mexican immigrants don't particularly like us, and you'll be labeled a racist, a xenophobe, a jingoist, and every other type of slur. Don't forget, these aren't arguments. What it means is that they have no response to this, and that you are right.

And that is why Donald Trump is winning elections. Immigration is a BIG deal, and people are sick of being told to be quiet while their culture is being overrun and their hometowns turn into ghettos.
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In a sane society none of those proposals should be controversial. But there are too many anti-Americans who suck the testicles of illegals and those that harbor and aid them.
 
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Those proposals are controversial because they treat human beings like animals simply because they were born outside of the United States. It also causes massive suffering for individuals who are guilty of nothing beyond the fact that their parents gave birth to them in the U.S. out of a desire to make their kids lives better than their own. It also causes a great deal of suffering for communities that have to try and deal with impoverished illegals that will resort to whatever means necessary (crime) to support themselves and their families in the absence of any welfare type benefits.
 
MrT said:
Those proposals are controversial because they treat human beings like animals simply because they were born outside of the United States.
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So you don't lock your doors at night? Because, you know, that means that you treat your neighbors like animals.

It also causes massive suffering for individuals who are guilty of nothing beyond the fact that their parents gave birth to them in the U.S. out of a desire to make their kids lives better than their own.
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Being born outside of the US isn't a punishment.

It also causes a great deal of suffering for communities that have to try and deal with impoverished illegals that will resort to whatever means necessary (crime) to support themselves and their families in the absence of any welfare type benefits.
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Or just deport them.
 
phattonez said:
So you don't lock your doors at night? Because, you know, that means that you treat your neighbors like animals.

Being born outside of the US isn't a punishment.

Or just deport them.
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Analogizing the treatment of an entire group of individuals by every aspect of a sovereign nation with neighbors and locking your house at night?

So persuasive.

And deportation also has a large amount of inherent costs. But please tell me about how we can just cut spending on welfare to pay for the deportation proceedings.
 
phattonez said:
Speaking of children, the children of illegal immigrants born in this country are not citizens. You should not be rewarded for sneaking into this country and having a child here.

Each city will have a cap of only 10% foreign-born in the population allowed at a time. If you are petitioning to come into the country, you are only allowed to move to a city with less than 10% of that city's population foreign-born. Ethnic enclaves are not to encouraged, and rapid assimilation is desired.
Click to expand...
I find these two pretty controversial, and probably unconstitutional.

Regarding the second, does it apply to foreign-born individuals who are married to American citizens? Because it would seem to infringe the fundamental right to marry to split up a couple or prohibit them from living in a particular location simply because 10% of the population is foreign born. And a major multinational corporation based in NYC is going to be prohibited from hiring a qualified foreign-born individual as CEO simply because there are already too many foreigners in the city? Over 37% of NYC residents were born in another country, btw. Most of the biggest cities have similar stats. If you want to destroy the US economy, this might be a good way to start.
 
MrT said:
Analogizing the treatment of an entire group of individuals by every aspect of a sovereign nation with neighbors and locking your house at night?

So persuasive.
Click to expand...

Yet the only retort that you were able to muster was nothing more than a scoff.

And deportation also has a large amount of inherent costs. But please tell me about how we can just cut spending on welfare to pay for the deportation proceedings.
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Food stamp spending alone is $74 billion per year. That would take care of quite a few illegals. It would also pay for a wall.
 
Camer☑n;1065590181 said:
I find these two pretty controversial, and probably unconstitutional.
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The Constitution can be changed.

Regarding the second, does it apply to foreign-born individuals who are married to American citizens? Because it would seem to infringe the fundamental right to marry to split up a couple or prohibit them from living in a particular location simply because 10% of the population is foreign born. And a major multinational corporation based in NYC is going to be prohibited from hiring a qualified foreign-born individual as CEO simply because there are already too many foreigners in the city? Over 37% of NYC residents were born in another country, btw. Most of the biggest cities have similar stats. If you want to destroy the US economy, this might be a good way to start.
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That's also why cities like NYC and LA are dumps and mostly ghetto.

Still, my main point was not for the foreign-born who are already living in the country, but rather for those who are petitioning to enter the country.
 
phattonez said:
The Constitution can be changed.
Click to expand...
It can, sure. But I doubt you'd be able to change the constitution in this manner, because the issue is quite controversial.

That's also why cities like NYC and LA are dumps and mostly ghetto.
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Parts of these cities undoubtedly are dumps and ghettos, but they are the world's second and sixth largest GDP-producing metropolitan areas, respectively. And NYC, at least, is largely very nice.
 
Camer☑n;1065590240 said:
It can, sure. But I doubt you'd be able to change the constitution in this manner, because the issue is quite controversial.

Parts of these cities undoubtedly are dumps and ghettos, but they are the world's second and sixth largest GDP-producing metropolitan areas, respectively. And NYC, at least, is largely very nice.
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Hey, we may have all kinds of crime, cultural filth, graffiti, blight, and everything else associated with ghettos, but at least we've got our GDP!
 
phattonez said:
Hey, we may have all kinds of crime, cultural filth, graffiti, blight, and everything else associated with ghettos, but at least we've got our GDP!
Click to expand...

Greetings, phattonez. :2wave:

It's a shame that our debt of $19 trillion dollars exceeds our GDP, but that's to be expected with the out-of-control spending going on! And Congress can't find waste to cut? :bs:! :2mad:
 
phattonez said:
Imagine a politician who said the following things:



Yet none of these things is politically feasible in this current climate. Heck, even discussion of a wall on the border is super controversial! Why is this? The liberal establishment LOVES immigrants. Poor immigrants come into this country, gobble up welfare benefits through their anchor babies, and now Democrats have a voter for life. That's all that this is about. This is why Democrats have no respect for national sovereignty. This is how they win elections.

You want a microcosm for what's going to happen to the country? In 1994 Californians passed Proposition 187, which would have done what the first proposal in this list stated. Californians passed it (yes, we're not all liberal zombies), but it was swiftly declared unconstitutional and it was never enacted. Since that time, immigration has continued unabated, and Republicans have not been able to win the senate or the governor's office (outside of Schwarzenegger who was worthless) or any senate seats. And the Republicans in this state are bullied into submission on everything. Now the state is mostly Hispanic, not white, and cities like Los Angeles have a population that is 40% foreign-born! 40%. No wonder this is a cultural wasteland. And let's not compare this to European immigration. These immigrants are still fiercely loyal to Mexico (let's admit it, they're mostly Mexican) and would like for California to once again be a part of Mexico. Even Antonio Villaraigosa was a member of the odious MEChA, which seeks to annex the entire southwest back to Mexico.

But bring any of this up, talk about sovereignty or the fact that Mexican immigrants don't particularly like us, and you'll be labeled a racist, a xenophobe, a jingoist, and every other type of slur. Don't forget, these aren't arguments. What it means is that they have no response to this, and that you are right.

And that is why Donald Trump is winning elections. Immigration is a BIG deal, and people are sick of being told to be quiet while their culture is being overrun and their hometowns turn into ghettos.
Click to expand...



Wow, cool!

Invent your own dialogue and use it to ravage the left. This MAY come as a shock, but the Republicans had 12 years to work out a solution in the 80's. Then Bush, who armed with his amazing support after 911 could have made immigration illegal if he'd wanted and we saw not one bill.

I agree the position of the left is asinine and the help the states are offering is absolutely stupid. But no Republican, including senator Cruz has ever tried.
 
polgara said:
Greetings, phattonez. :2wave:

It's a shame that our debt of $19 trillion dollars exceeds our GDP, but that's to be expected with the out-of-control spending going on! And Congress can't find waste to cut? :bs:! :2mad:
Click to expand...



As I was reading your post I was listening to the CBC where our new government is taking heat for projecting an $18 billion deficit. But, for the first time in history our oil producing provinces are in deficit as well. British Columbia is the only province in the black right now and it is our history to run surpluses in good times and deficits in hard and these are hard times.

Unfortunately, the US is already heavily in debt.
 
Fearandloathing said:
As I was reading your post I was listening to the CBC where our new government is taking heat for projecting an $18 billion deficit. But, for the first time in history our oil producing provinces are in deficit as well. British Columbia is the only province in the black right now and it is our history to run surpluses in good times and deficits in hard and these are hard times.

Unfortunately, the US is already heavily in debt.
Click to expand...

Greetings, F&L. :2wave:

The last I checked, our debt in the Trillions exceeds our GDP by 103 percent! Few seem to care, though, but they will - perhaps sooner than they would like! :scared:
 
Fearandloathing said:
Wow, cool!

Invent your own dialogue and use it to ravage the left. This MAY come as a shock, but the Republicans had 12 years to work out a solution in the 80's. Then Bush, who armed with his amazing support after 911 could have made immigration illegal if he'd wanted and we saw not one bill.

I agree the position of the left is asinine and the help the states are offering is absolutely stupid. But no Republican, including senator Cruz has ever tried.
Click to expand...

They haven't, and that's why the establishment Republican party is disintegrating and a non-conservative like Trump is taking its place. Trump isn't conservative, not by a longshot, but the immigration issue is one of the most if not the most important issue facing this country, and establishment Republicans have done nothing, hence the revolt.
 
phattonez said:
They haven't, and that's why the establishment Republican party is disintegrating and a non-conservative like Trump is taking its place. Trump isn't conservative, not by a longshot, but the immigration issue is one of the most if not the most important issue facing this country, and establishment Republicans have done nothing, hence the revolt.
Click to expand...



Ah, not sure if you really read my post. To me it is a non partisan problem as both parties have dropped the ball.

Anyone who thinks Trump will be able to build a wall or cease in migration of all Islamics that anyone is having an acid flash back. You might think immigration is the "biggest issue" [I suggest the two wars yo are losing are more important] but Not according to polls.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Ah, not sure if you really read my post. To me it is a non partisan problem as both parties have dropped the ball.

Anyone who thinks Trump will be able to build a wall or cease in migration of all Islamics that anyone is having an acid flash back. You might think immigration is the "biggest issue" [I suggest the two wars yo are losing are more important] but Not according to polls.
Click to expand...

At this point, it's build the wall or the culture is toast. It's demographic reality.
 
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