Thread: California Dream Act's opponents gather signatures

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

Just by being here illegally, they are committing a crime. Right there, that blows your “undocumented immigrants commit, on average, far fewer crimes” lie out of the water. Every single one of them commits that one crime, at least. And that's before we consider the various instances of fraud and identity theft in which they must engage in order to obtain employment, or participate in many other aspects of normal life.

Which is around 75% of working illegals which is estimated to be around 7 million. So whats 75% of 7 million? 5,250,000. So 5,250,000 illegals commit fraud (a felony offense) and 5,250,000 commit identity theft (another felony offense). Thats 10,500,000 felonies commited by illegals alone for just two things. Then there are the ones that use thier false identities to get credit cards and rack up debt completely ruining a persons credit history. And do you know who gets hurt the most with that? Children. Thats right, children. Most identities that are stolen are childrens.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

Just by being here illegally, they are committing a crime. Right there, that blows your “undocumented immigrants commit, on average, far fewer crimes” lie out of the water. Every single one of them commits that one crime, at least. And that's before we consider the various instances of fraud and identity theft in which they must engage in order to obtain employment, or participate in many other aspects of normal life.

You know what I mean. Real crimes. Crime-crime.

Originally Posted by Kal'Stang

OMFG! I am done with you. The very things that I quote from the article SAY that there isn't enough money for the poor and don't get that aid and you STILL hang on to that little bit.

If you are any example of a typical Californian then it is no wonder that state is a crap hole.

Dude. That's insane that you came out of your article thinking it meant they didn't have enough money. lol. It explicitly talks about how school is getting more expensive and they contend that the financial aid award amounts haven't been updated to track it and blah blah blah.

Originally Posted by teamosil

You know what I mean. Real crimes. Crime-crime.

Fraud is a real crime. A “crime-crime”. So is identity theft. For that matter, so is being in this country illegally.

There is no way for you to argue your way out of the fact that your position is one of taking the side of and catering to criminals—real criminals—and taking that side against the side of honest law-abiding citizens.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

Fraud is a real crime. A “crime-crime”. So is identity theft. For that matter, so is being in this country illegally.

There is no way for you to argue your way out of the fact that your position is one of taking the side of and catering to criminals—real criminals—and taking that side against the side of honest law-abiding citizens.

Well, regardless of all that, the fact remains that undocumented immigrants commit far fewer non-immigration crimes per capita than citizens do.

Originally Posted by teamosil

Well, regardless of all that, the fact remains that undocumented immigrants commit far fewer non-immigration crimes per capita than citizens do.

So what?

Perhaps it can be claimed that serial murderers commit fewer drug-related crimes that other citizens. Perhaps drug dealers commit fewer bank robberies. Perhaps bank robbers commit fewer serial murders.

A criminal is a criminal. Saying that your preferred class of criminal commits fewer of a different sort of crime proves nothing. You're still on the side of criminals, and against the side of law-abiding citizens.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

A criminal is a criminal. Saying that your preferred class of criminal commits fewer of a different sort of crime proves nothing.

Yes it does. I was replying to a post claiming that undocumented immigrants increased the rates of murder and rape. That is flatly false.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

You're still on the side of criminals, and against the side of law-abiding citizens.

I'm on the side of making policy in a rational, sensible, way instead of just getting overwhelmed with emotion and trying to use policy as an instrument to express your feelings about a particular group of people.

Originally Posted by teamosil

I'm on the side of making policy in a rational, sensible, way instead of just getting overwhelmed with emotion and trying to use policy as an instrument to express your feelings about a particular group of people.

Most of us do not think that it is “sensible” or “rational” to make policies specially crafted to cater to foreign invaders or other criminals.

Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock

Most of us do not think that it is “sensible” or “rational” to make policies specially crafted to cater to foreign invaders or other criminals.

Well, if you come up with any policy arguments supporting your case, please present them.

Originally Posted by teamosil

Well, if you come up with any policy arguments supporting your case, please present them.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof.

You're the one making that claim that it is in any way sound policy to take money from the pockets of honest, law-aiding citizens, and spend it for the benefit of invading foreign criminals. This is certainly an extraordinary claim, and you haven't even offered an ordinary level of proof to support it; much less the extraordinary level of proof for which such a claim calls.