Liberals are wrong on this issue.

I read a lot. I'm not afraid to read opposing points of views on different issues. Lately, I've been reading a lot of books regarding Islamic expansion, terrorism and Christian history. After a lot of reflection, I've come to a single conclusion : Liberals are wrong in the way they approach the debate on Islamic terrorism.

Since 9.11.2001 terrorism has become a hotly debated issue in America and many other nations. Not because of the attacks themselves but because of how dormant the West remained as Islamic terrorism expanded. It pains me to admit it but my fellow liberals have taken the wrong road on this issue. Instead of addressing the problems within Islam which would be obvious to anybody who regards the issue, we have chosen to divert attention from the issue by pointing at the misdeeds of other religions. Mostly pointing at examples of Christian terrorism that while horrible in themselves are not anywhere near the type of threat Islamic terrorism posses.

I've come up with a single reason as to why we as liberals have chosen to do this. We are under the false impression that when people attack Islamic radicalism they're attacking Islam itself. This is not true. Islam doesn't need change as far as religion goes. Islam needs religion as far as radicalism and certain groups within it go. While peace loving Muslims number in the hundreds of millions worldwide one CAN NOT ignore the significant but minute percentage that promote hate and violence. This minority is important because it is growing like a cancer. We are seeing more and more signs of home grown terrorism which were not obvious before because of how sheltered we were. No more.

Liberals we must realize that when people say that Islamic terrorism is a problem they're not talking about Islam being the problem but those who misinterpret and radicalize the scripture to fit an agenda that wants social regression. The Koran, like the Bible has many radical passages but we are not seeing thousands of Christian youths become enamored by the thought of killing in the name of Christianity.

As a proud liberal I beg many of you to reconsider your positions on this issue. I'm not talking about moving to the left or the right. I'm asking you to realize that Radical Islamics are a plague and we're doing a disservice to peaceful Muslims by choosing to ignore the issue and putting up smoke screens on an issue that requires common sense and strength in character.

When I say 'Liberals' you all know who I'm talking about. If you don't then you probably be offended by my use of the word.

The entire forum suffers from that weakness, not just the libs and not just in regards to terrorism. Take a look in any given thread. Half the posts are "if <event> had happened to a member of <political party> just imagine what <opposing political party> would be saying right now" or "would you say the same thing if this had happened to <some person the original poster likes>". For every post that throws out an opinion, there are five that spring up trying to prove the poster is a hypocrite or inconsistent, or that the political party that the responder lumps the poster into has inconsistent positions, or things of that sort. Maybe one or two will address the opinion

I look forward to five posts about how I do the same thing or am "selectively outraged" because I've never called out some specific group for this.

Kernel Sanders said:

I look forward to five posts about how I do the same thing or am "selectively outraged" because I've never called out some specific group for this.

Click to expand...

If I said something like this, you would jump down my throat and call me a partisan hack!!!


Happy now?

Hatuey said:

I read a lot. I'm not afraid to read opposing points of views on different issues. Lately, I've been reading a lot of books regarding Islamic expansion, terrorism and Christian history. After a lot of reflection, I've come to a single conclusion : Liberals are wrong in the way they approach the debate on Islamic terrorism.

Since 9.11.2001 terrorism has become a hotly debated issue in America and many other nations. Not because of the attacks themselves but because of how dormant the West remained as Islamic terrorism expanded. It pains me to admit it but my fellow liberals have taken the wrong road on this issue. Instead of addressing the problems within Islam which would be obvious to anybody who regards the issue, we have chosen to divert attention from the issue by pointing at the misdeeds of other religions. Mostly pointing at examples of Christian terrorism that while horrible in themselves are not anywhere near the type of threat Islamic terrorism posses.

I've come up with a single reason as to why we as liberals have chosen to do this. We are under the false impression that when people attack Islamic radicalism they're attacking Islam itself. This is not true. Islam doesn't need change as far as religion goes. Islam needs religion as far as radicalism and certain groups within it go. While peace loving Muslims number in the hundreds of millions worldwide one CAN NOT ignore the significant but minute percentage that promote hate and violence. This minority is important because it is growing like a cancer. We are seeing more and more signs of home grown terrorism which were not obvious before because of how sheltered we were. No more.

Liberals we must realize that when people say that Islamic terrorism is a problem they're not talking about Islam being the problem but those who misinterpret and radicalize the scripture to fit an agenda that wants social regression. The Koran, like the Bible has many radical passages but we are not seeing thousands of Christian youths become enamored by the thought of killing in the name of Christianity.

As a proud liberal I beg many of you to reconsider your positions on this issue. I'm not talking about moving to the left or the right. I'm asking you to realize that Radical Islamics are a plague and we're doing a disservice to peaceful Muslims by choosing to ignore the issue and putting up smoke screens on an issue that requires common sense and strength in character.

When I say 'Liberals' you all know who I'm talking about. If you don't then you probably be offended by my use of the word.

Click to expand...

Radicalist islam is a problem. Unfortunately the debate has been over - you're a liberal - you appease terrorists; bomb all of Iran; and various other generalizations for the sake not of actual debate but of yelling screaming and the advancement of a political ideology/agenda.

Christianity for all it's faults has evolved beyond the 14th century. Much of Islam however remains inside that bubble.
Moderate muslims do not in anyway agree, but that whole notion of moderate muslims is an inaccurate description, it's the moderate people of that region.
The people there as much as they despise of the actions of their fundamentalists, they are afterall still their own people and those that they have to deal with on an every day basis - these same fundamentalist groups - ie hezbollah - for as much fundamentalism they show, are nevertheless also the same people whom are also providing the humanitarian efforts and winning the hearts of many of these people - in particular when we are the ones dropping bombs from the skies and clearly a foreign occupator.
Our foreign policy in dealing with (insert radical group) so as to obtain the ends which we wish are one of the many reasons why such groups are so prominent.
Hence the conflict has become one of conflict of national interests, conflict of wealth, conflict of religion, and conflict of cultures. All these clash together all at once. The nation of Germany declared war on the US after Dec. 7th 1941 and it became a war of nations.
Iraq never declared war on us, unprovoked we threw away any moral high ground and legitimacy when we ideologically invaded that nation - out of convenience - the result, 0 credit.
The method of rooting out islamic fundamentalists is the same as that of rooting out the fundamentalists of any group; having a stronger ideology that people actually want.
It's how communism was so successfully undermined and toppled.
In extreme cases military force is required - but certainly Vietnam should've been ample proof that you can win every battle, but if your do not seem any better than your opponent you'd still loose the war.
The christian bible contains pages and pages of brutality and violence - as does the Koran; what seperates our youth from theirs is not the religion, but of the society. We live in wealthy industrialized civilized and secular societies - they live in societies where it's every man for himself - they have absolutely nothing to loose, and like us, it's easier to just point to someone else blame them and hate, than it is to self examine their own action./inactions.

I've come up with a single reason as to why we as liberals have chosen to do this. We are under the false impression that when people attack Islamic radicalism they're attacking Islam itself. This is not true. Islam doesn't need change as far as religion goes. Islam needs religion as far as radicalism and certain groups within it go. While peace loving Muslims number in the hundreds of millions worldwide one CAN NOT ignore the significant but minute percentage that promote hate and violence. This minority is important because it is growing like a cancer. We are seeing more and more signs of home grown terrorism which were not obvious before because of how sheltered we were. No more.

Click to expand...

Actually this is not wholly accurate, imho. No doubt with some this is true but there are also some that seem to have a real hatred of Islam, Arabs and Muslim culture and certainly makes claims against the whole religion. They certainly dislike it enough to stretch the truth such as the recent thread on this board about Islam being worse than Stalin and Mao.

You seem to be describing the general liberal viewpoint rather than that held by some others, who really do often seem to dislike Islam as whole. There is little reason for this dislike and I for one think that being proud of my culture and heritage should mean accepting other people's, in their lands of course, in most cases.

Hatuey said:

I read a lot. I'm not afraid to read opposing points of views on different issues. Lately, I've been reading a lot of books regarding Islamic expansion, terrorism and Christian history. After a lot of reflection, I've come to a single conclusion : Liberals are wrong in the way they approach the debate on Islamic terrorism.

Click to expand...

I'll echo Wessexman's sentiments. I see few if any liberals defending terrorist acts. What I think, however, is that when liberals point out blatant lies made to demonize Islam or Muslim countries, or challenge rank bigotry against Muslims, or hypocritical logic used to demonize Islam, the perception by some (usually by those doing the demonizing) is that that is defending terrorism or radical Islam.

For example, not long ago there was a video posted in which Iran was compared to Nazi Germany in having the goal to exterminated the Jews, and earlier a thread was started that Iran was foceing all Jews to wear yellow armbands, and another thread about an 8 year old boy's arm being run over by a truch for stealing.

All these were false, hoaxes or lies promulgated by those who wish to promote hate against Muslims.

Is pointing out these falsehoods putting up a smoke screen to excuse radical Islam?

When someone writes a post about Muslim bitches in the US and that all Muslim ****bags need to be deported immediately complete with a little icon of a machine gun blasting US Muslims, I call that blatant bigotry.

Is that somehow excusing the radicals?

And even when someone starts a thread to show that Islam is a religion of evil and Muslims all want to kill us because look at these passages in the Koran, is the argument that not all Muslims want to kill us because of these passages just like all Christians and Jews don't want to stone pagans even though it says it in the Bible, excusing radicals?

Not in my opinion.

This nation was tricked into a war because not enough people were willing to stand up and point out the many, many misrepresentations and misimplications that were made about Hussein and Iraq, for fear of looking like they were defending him.

And I don't apologize for calling out hateful bigots. We have seen in the past what happens when good people stand by without challenging mean spirited bigots.

I certainly do not condone terrorism or radicals who call for it, and despite claims to the contrary, defy anyone to point out any post I've ever made that does.

On the other hand, during these times when tensions between Muslim countries and ours are at the highest, that is the most likely time that ugly prejudicism and bigotry comes out, seeking to demonize an entire group of people for the actions of a very small few.

In my opinion, it is times like these when it is the *most* important for people of good will to stand up to hateful bigotry its attempts to promote hatred at a whole group.

I'll point out lies, and call out bigotry, regardless who it is against. And I don't apologize for it.

jfuh said:

Iraq never declared war on us, unprovoked we threw away any moral high ground and legitimacy when we ideologically invaded that nation - out of convenience - the result, 0 credit.

Click to expand...

a) the US had a valid ceasefire agreement with Iraq. Iraq's continued noncompliance constituted, by itself, justification to initiate military action.

b) what the heck is an indeological invasion? We didn't topple Hussein because a disagreement of political ideology or even religious ideology.

c) why do some people insist on perceiving war as some sort of effort to gain "credit." Credit for what? Who are you attempting to curry favor with?

but certainly Vietnam should've been ample proof that you can win every battle, but if your do not seem any better than your opponent you'd still loose the war.

Click to expand...

The US "lost" the war in Vietnam because someone perceived the US as not better than the North Vietnamese? :roll:

The christian bible contains pages and pages of brutality and violence - as does the Koran; what seperates our youth from theirs is not the religion, but of the society. We live in wealthy industrialized civilized and secular societies - they live in societies where it's every man for himself - they have absolutely nothing to loose, and like us, it's easier to just point to someone else blame them and hate, than it is to self examine their own action./inactions.

Click to expand...

So is there or is there not a difference? You started out drawing a distinction but then wound up simply creating some false equivalence between us and them... :roll:

Iriemon said:

I'll echo Wessexman's sentiments. I see few if any liberals defending terrorist acts. What I think, however, is that when liberals point out blatant lies made to demonize Islam or Muslim countries, or challenge rank bigotry against Muslims, or hypocritical logic used to demonize Islam, the perception by some (usually by those doing the demonizing) is that that is defending terrorism or radical Islam.

Click to expand...

Who is doing this? Name names.

I think that what is really happening is that there are liberals who draw gross moral equivalencies between Islam and Christianity in oder to deflect criticism of Islam, that there are liberals who seek to Blame America First as a response to terrorism targetting the US and that this is what people are pushing back against.

When someone writes a post about Muslim bitches in the US and that all Muslim ****bags need to be deported immediately complete with a little icon of a machine gun blasting US Muslims, I call that blatant bigotry.

Click to expand...

It's also hardly representative of anything other than fringe nonsense.

This nation was tricked into a war

Click to expand...

Tricked? LOL! That's right...we're all just part of the herd and unable to think for ourselves...tricked by a President that many feel is basically retarded.

because not enough people were willing to stand up and point out the many, many misrepresentations and misimplications that were made about Hussein and Iraq, for fear of looking like they were defending him.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's it. It's not the the US, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia, Israel and every other major intelligence service believed that Iraq possessed wmds and were pursuing nukes. It's not that Iraq submitted, twice, 12,000 pages of documents revealing their production of wmds and wmd development programs.

No, we were just tricked because we feared standing up to that retard Bush... :roll:

JMak said:

Who is doing this? Name names.

Click to expand...

A few examples.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/basem...gets-halloween-christmas-removed-schools.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/middle-east/40312-why-iran-s-government-must-deposed-disposed.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news/39909-afghan-schoolgirls-sprayed-acid.html

http://www.debatepolitics.com/archi...muslims-fuel-muslim-extremism.html#post657821

I think that what is really happening is that there are liberals who draw gross moral equivalencies between Islam and Christianity in oder to deflect criticism of Islam, that there are liberals who seek to Blame America First as a response to terrorism targetting the US and that this is what people are pushing back against.

Click to expand...

I'm sure there are some that do.

It's also hardly representative of anything other than fringe nonsense.

Click to expand...

I agree. And that is why it is IMO legitimate to point out the falsehoods and bigotry of fringe nonsense when it occurs.

Tricked? LOL! That's right...we're all just part of the herd and unable to think for ourselves...tricked by a President that many feel is basically retarded.

Click to expand...

I didn't mean to suggest that everyone was tricked. Maybe the 70% or so that believed Iraq was involved in 9-11 by the time the Iraq war was launched.

Yeah, that's it. It's not the the US, Britain, France, Germany, China, Russia, Israel and every other major intelligence service believed that Iraq possessed wmds and were pursuing nukes. It's not that Iraq submitted, twice, 12,000 pages of documents revealing their production of wmds and wmd development programs.

No, we were just tricked because we feared standing up to that retard Bush... :roll:

Click to expand...

I think there was some element of that for some, for most it wasn't because they feared standing up to Bush but were willing to accepting the misimplications and disinformation because they were both terrified and angry after 9-11. And plus you normally don't expect the WH to be engaging in a misinformation campaign. Just my opinion.

The question is not liberal´s defense against Islamic extremeism. A twofold question is a more constructive way of approaching this issue, firstly that the mainstream press grossly exadurates the ´threat´of terrorism in modern society, and the second is policy makers refusal to look at and address root causes of discontent.
People do not turn to radical, violent or ´extremeist´ideology in large numbers if they have a stake in society or if they percieve largly christian nations bombing or invading soverign terretory then of course they will react in an extremeist manner.

I am forced (often) into relating islamic extremeism to christian extremeism because of hte wildly outragous comments rightwingers tend to make, based on exadurated news reports.

sorry i cant spell

cheat3 said:

sorry i cant spell

Click to expand...

It's okay. I can't read. :mrgreen:

cheat3 said:

The question is not liberal´s defense against Islamic extremeism. A twofold question is a more constructive way of approaching this issue, firstly that the mainstream press grossly exadurates the ´threat´of terrorism in modern society, and the second is policy makers refusal to look at and address root causes of discontent.
People do not turn to radical, violent or ´extremeist´ideology in large numbers if they have a stake in society or if they percieve largly christian nations bombing or invading soverign terretory then of course they will react in an extremeist manner.

I am forced (often) into relating islamic extremeism to christian extremeism because of hte wildly outragous comments rightwingers tend to make, based on exadurated news reports.

sorry i cant spell

Click to expand...

I'm not a good speller either, but I'm sure scratching my head as to what "exadurated" means. Though I think you mean exaggerated.

Hatuey said:

I read a lot. I'm not afraid to read opposing points of views on different issues. Lately, I've been reading a lot of books regarding Islamic expansion, terrorism and Christian history. After a lot of reflection, I've come to a single conclusion : Liberals are wrong in the way they approach the debate on Islamic terrorism.

Since 9.11.2001 terrorism has become a hotly debated issue in America and many other nations. Not because of the attacks themselves but because of how dormant the West remained as Islamic terrorism expanded. It pains me to admit it but my fellow liberals have taken the wrong road on this issue. Instead of addressing the problems within Islam which would be obvious to anybody who regards the issue, we have chosen to divert attention from the issue by pointing at the misdeeds of other religions. Mostly pointing at examples of Christian terrorism that while horrible in themselves are not anywhere near the type of threat Islamic terrorism posses.

I've come up with a single reason as to why we as liberals have chosen to do this. We are under the false impression that when people attack Islamic radicalism they're attacking Islam itself. This is not true. Islam doesn't need change as far as religion goes. Islam needs religion as far as radicalism and certain groups within it go. While peace loving Muslims number in the hundreds of millions worldwide one CAN NOT ignore the significant but minute percentage that promote hate and violence. This minority is important because it is growing like a cancer. We are seeing more and more signs of home grown terrorism which were not obvious before because of how sheltered we were. No more.

Liberals we must realize that when people say that Islamic terrorism is a problem they're not talking about Islam being the problem but those who misinterpret and radicalize the scripture to fit an agenda that wants social regression. The Koran, like the Bible has many radical passages but we are not seeing thousands of Christian youths become enamored by the thought of killing in the name of Christianity.

As a proud liberal I beg many of you to reconsider your positions on this issue. I'm not talking about moving to the left or the right. I'm asking you to realize that Radical Islamics are a plague and we're doing a disservice to peaceful Muslims by choosing to ignore the issue and putting up smoke screens on an issue that requires common sense and strength in character.

When I say 'Liberals' you all know who I'm talking about. If you don't then you probably be offended by my use of the word.

Click to expand...

*THUMP*

The sound of me fainting.

While I am shocked to behold the sea change in your point of view, why not try this on for size?

Imagine a paradigm which is just slightly different than the one we know and imagine the people who live within that paradigm being just as proud of their beliefs as we are of ours.

And the paradigm WE subscribe to, the system that we all believe in is the one that says that all men are created equal. We take pride in having elected a Black POTUS. We hold as sacrosanct the idea that women are equal to men. Our governmental charter was conceived and written by some of the wisest men who have ever lived and it declares that all men are endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

And we say there is no more fundamental truth. No rights that are more fundamental than these rights.

Upon these rights we go into the world on crusades of liberation.

But what about those who do not believe that all men are equal?

We automatically think those people are wrong. We think they are bad. We call them the names with "ist" at the end.

Racist. Sexist.

And with those words we would socially beat them up and make them feel embarrassed and then force them to conform to our paradigm. But what if they are not ashamed at all?

Some Muslims are not only not apologetic about their belief in inequality but they are just as proud and just as intent on their paradigm reigning supreme in the world as we are about ours reigning supreme.

And they have a point.

Where our paradigm was conceived by the wisest of MEN, their paradigm of beliefs was created by The Creator Himself!

And their acknowledged Creator does not believe in the democracy we hold so dear, "there was no word in any of the Muslim languages for democracy until the 1890s."

But the bottom line is that no Islamic government can be democratic in the sense of allowing the common people equal shares in legislation.

Islam divides human activities into five categories from the permitted to the sinful, leaving little room for human interpretation, let alone ethical innovations.

What we must understand is that Islam has its own vision of the world and man's place in it.

To say that Islam is incompatible with democracy should not be seen as a disparagement of Islam.

On the contrary, many Muslims would see it as a compliment because they sincerely believe that their idea of rule by God is superior to that of rule by men which is democracy.

In Muslim literature and philosophy being forsaken by God is the worst that can happen to man.

The great Persian poet Rumi pleads thus:

Oh, God, do not leave our affairs to us

For, if You do, woe be to us.

Rumi mocks those who claim that men can rule themselves.

He says:

You are not reign even over your beard,

That grows without your permission.

How can you pretend, therefore,

To rule about right and wrong?

The expression "abandoned by God" sends shivers down Muslim spines. For it spells the doom not only of individuals but of entire civilisations.

The Koran tells the stories of tribes, nations and civilisations that perished when God left them to their devices.

Amir Taheri: "Islam Is Incompatible With Democracy"

Click to expand...

Many Muslims are bemused by the actions taken by America's elected officials and people these last several years and can make an argument (away from non-believers) that America's troubles stem from our wickedness and waywardness and the distance we've grown away from OUR God.

IMO those who focus their attentions on Christian Evangelicals do so because they are unwittingly acting on external prompts or because they know that were there to grow a Christian vanguard to match the Islamic vanguard, the tip of the spear, it would be these Evangelicals who would be the Christian soldiers and they want us to do their bidding.

They can't directly discourage the Evangelicals but they CAN influence US so we might socially get the Evangelicals under control.

But, I digress.

Muslims aren't bad, they just follow a different paradigm.

Islam isn't bad, it just has different beliefs.

If we continue doing nothing and looking the other way and misunderstanding Islam and Muslims we won't necessarily be killed.

We'll just have to adopt or live under their system.

A system that was handed down from Allah and which they believe is superior to our man made democracy.

And by the looks of things they'd have a strong argument to make.

Iriemon said:

I'll echo Wessexman's sentiments. I see few if any liberals defending terrorist acts. What I think, however, is that when liberals point out blatant lies made to demonize Islam or Muslim countries, or challenge rank bigotry against Muslims, or hypocritical logic used to demonize Islam, the perception by some (usually by those doing the demonizing) is that that is defending terrorism or radical Islam.

For example, not long ago there was a video posted in which Iran was compared to Nazi Germany in having the goal to exterminated the Jews, and earlier a thread was started that Iran was foceing all Jews to wear yellow armbands, and another thread about an 8 year old boy's arm being run over by a truch for stealing.

All these were false, hoaxes or lies promulgated by those who wish to promote hate against Muslims.

Is pointing out these falsehoods putting up a smoke screen to excuse radical Islam?

When someone writes a post about Muslim bitches in the US and that all Muslim ****bags need to be deported immediately complete with a little icon of a machine gun blasting US Muslims, I call that blatant bigotry.

Is that somehow excusing the radicals?

And even when someone starts a thread to show that Islam is a religion of evil and Muslims all want to kill us because look at these passages in the Koran, is the argument that not all Muslims want to kill us because of these passages just like all Christians and Jews don't want to stone pagans even though it says it in the Bible, excusing radicals?

Not in my opinion.

This nation was tricked into a war because not enough people were willing to stand up and point out the many, many misrepresentations and misimplications that were made about Hussein and Iraq, for fear of looking like they were defending him.

And I don't apologize for calling out hateful bigots. We have seen in the past what happens when good people stand by without challenging mean spirited bigots.

I certainly do not condone terrorism or radicals who call for it, and despite claims to the contrary, defy anyone to point out any post I've ever made that does.

On the other hand, during these times when tensions between Muslim countries and ours are at the highest, that is the most likely time that ugly prejudicism and bigotry comes out, seeking to demonize an entire group of people for the actions of a very small few.

In my opinion, it is times like these when it is the *most* important for people of good will to stand up to hateful bigotry its attempts to promote hatred at a whole group.

I'll point out lies, and call out bigotry, regardless who it is against. And I don't apologize for it.

Click to expand...

Why do you think such demonizing goes on?

Because increasing numbers of people believe Islam is very close to succeeding in achieving it's goals.

You should feel proud.

JMak said:

Who is doing this? Name names.

It's also hardly representative of anything other than fringe nonsense.

Click to expand...

Here's another from the nonsense fringe for you.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/1057857428-post15.html

Iriemon said:

I'm not a good speller either, but I'm sure scratching my head as to what "exadurated" means. Though I think you mean exaggerated.

Click to expand...

lol yeah i do, any comments on the thoughts?

cheat3 said:

lol yeah i do, any comments on the thoughts?

Click to expand...

I think your points were good ones.

I certainly agree there are strong political and industrial constituencies that benefit be keeping the general population terrified. The Republicans stayed in power in 2004 and the military/security industry is the beneficiary of an additional $500 billion a year or so in spending because of it, IMO.


I'm not sure I'd equate Christian extremists with Muslim extremist generally. Though it seems that most hard wing promoters of the "religion of peace" were/are the strong supporters of war against the heathens in Iraq, and once again favored the more war mongering candidate in this election.

Iriemon said:

I think your points were good ones.

I certainly agree there are strong political and industrial constituencies that benefit be keeping the general population terrified. The Republicans stayed in power in 2004 and the military/security industry is the beneficiary of an additional $500 billion a year or so in spending because of it, IMO.

Click to expand...

So, you don't have any opinion about whether Iraq should be democratic or not?

Iriemon said:

I'm not sure I'd equate Christian extremists with Muslim extremist generally. Though it seems that most hard wing promoters of the "religion of peace" were/are the strong supporters of war against the heathens in Iraq, and once again favored the more war mongering candidate in this election.

Click to expand...

You don't see Christian Evangelicals mobilizing and becoming a force to try to stop the stealth jihad progress if it isn't stopped through social or governmental means?

bhkad said:

So, you don't have any opinion about whether Iraq should be democratic or not?

Click to expand...

Sure. But do you have a relevant question?

You don't see Christian Evangelicals mobilizing and becoming a force to try to stop the stealth jihad progress if it isn't stopped through social or governmental means?

Click to expand...

They certinaly do mobilize and become a force, and do it thru the political process.

Hatuey said:

I read a lot. I'm not afraid to read opposing points of views on different issues. Lately, I've been reading a lot of books regarding Islamic expansion, terrorism and Christian history. After a lot of reflection, I've come to a single conclusion : Liberals are wrong in the way they approach the debate on Islamic terrorism.

Since 9.11.2001 terrorism has become a hotly debated issue in America and many other nations. Not because of the attacks themselves but because of how dormant the West remained as Islamic terrorism expanded. It pains me to admit it but my fellow liberals have taken the wrong road on this issue. Instead of addressing the problems within Islam which would be obvious to anybody who regards the issue, we have chosen to divert attention from the issue by pointing at the misdeeds of other religions. Mostly pointing at examples of Christian terrorism that while horrible in themselves are not anywhere near the type of threat Islamic terrorism posses.

I've come up with a single reason as to why we as liberals have chosen to do this. We are under the false impression that when people attack Islamic radicalism they're attacking Islam itself. This is not true. Islam doesn't need change as far as religion goes. Islam needs religion as far as radicalism and certain groups within it go. While peace loving Muslims number in the hundreds of millions worldwide one CAN NOT ignore the significant but minute percentage that promote hate and violence. This minority is important because it is growing like a cancer. We are seeing more and more signs of home grown terrorism which were not obvious before because of how sheltered we were. No more.

Liberals we must realize that when people say that Islamic terrorism is a problem they're not talking about Islam being the problem but those who misinterpret and radicalize the scripture to fit an agenda that wants social regression. The Koran, like the Bible has many radical passages but we are not seeing thousands of Christian youths become enamored by the thought of killing in the name of Christianity.

As a proud liberal I beg many of you to reconsider your positions on this issue. I'm not talking about moving to the left or the right. I'm asking you to realize that Radical Islamics are a plague and we're doing a disservice to peaceful Muslims by choosing to ignore the issue and putting up smoke screens on an issue that requires common sense and strength in character.

When I say 'Liberals' you all know who I'm talking about. If you don't then you probably be offended by my use of the word.

Click to expand...

Now that I've recovered from the shock of your declaration, what, if I may ask, caused this epiphany?

bhkad said:

So, you don't have any opinion about whether Iraq should be democratic or not?

Click to expand...

Iriemon said:

Sure. But do you have a relevant question?

Click to expand...

I think any question I might ask or any answer you might give is overshadowed by your lack of forthrightness in addressing the issue in this informal setting. You aren't on the stand. I think we can draw our own conclusions from your statement.

bhkad said:

You don't see Christian Evangelicals mobilizing and becoming a force to try to stop the stealth jihad progress if it isn't stopped through social or governmental means?

Click to expand...

Iriemon said:

They certinaly do mobilize and become a force, and do it thru the political process.

Click to expand...

Oh? Give us some examples of how Christian Evangelicals have affected anything in your life.

bhkad said:

I think any question I might ask or any answer you might give is overshadowed by your lack of forthrightness in addressing the issue in this informal setting. You aren't on the stand. I think we can draw our own conclusions from your statement.

Click to expand...

Sure thing. What does my opinion on whether Iraq should be democratic or not have to do with the topic of the thread or anything I've said about it?

IMO Iraq should be democratic if that is what the Iraqi people want.

You don't have any opinion about whether global warming is caused by man made factors or not?

Oh? Give us some examples of how Christian Evangelicals have affected anything in your life.

Click to expand...

Where did I say they did? However they were instrumental in electing Bush twice, which arguably has affected things in my life.

Iriemon said:

Sure thing. What does my opinion on whether Iraq should be democratic or not have to do with the topic of the thread or anything I've said about it?

IMO Iraq should be democratic if that is what the Iraqi people want.

You don't have any opinion about whether global warming is caused by man made factors or not?

Click to expand...

Thanks for expressing your opinion.

I think global warming is affected by man but even if global warming is a natural phenomenon we will still suffer from it's effects and anything we can do to offset the effects or prevent the phenomenon might be in our best interests. It's time to stop looking to blame or to deny the blame. It's now time to try to understand and to act.

Iriemon said:

Where did I say they did? However they were instrumental in electing Bush twice, which arguably has affected things in my life.

Click to expand...

Just Americans exercising their right to vote.

bhkad said:

Why do you think such demonizing goes on?

Because increasing numbers of people believe Islam is very close to succeeding in achieving it's goals.

You should feel proud.

Click to expand...

Let me guess, Muslims are going to over take the world [ignoring the fact the west holds nearly all of the Nukes and Christianity is still the largest religion] and force everyone; including Americans [who have guns] to convert to Islam and establish the caliphate worldwide :roll: