Could this generation stomach the carnage of world war 2? - Page 16

Awesome! · 05-21-08, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John1234

All Germany wanted initially was to become a "Global Empire".

Now, while we have a Globe of people that despise us, McCain wants to become a "Global Empire".

When you make a comparison to WW2 and say, "Its a good example of why we should of intervened, or have been the aggressor in Iraq"...
Do you just not realize the depth and seriousness of this?
Your making a good case as to why the world might need to intervene with us.
The only big thing separating us from WW2 Germany is the fact that our Country is more free and quite simply better.
Just imagine how terrible it would be right now if the Liberals never started opposing Bush.
We'd be on the march in Iran and the entire globe would be involved in an oil war that would eventually go full out nuclear.

I will always believe that our Constitution (Freedom of Speech) saved our species from extinction this time around by giving Bush McCain opposition.
Even if McCain were to win, Freedom of Speech has damaged his plan enough that he will never be successful in getting Congress to approve multiple invasions.
It would leave us a big hurdle though in that we'd have to stop Iran's nuclear production and without anyone to talk to them.
It could still suck us into a world war though if we launched a precision attack on Iran.
But at least the preaching and fear mongering from Bush was rejected. And rejected hard.
Where would we be now if Americans did not have the right to reject it?

I think Congress understands what needs to be done. Bush is doing something about it, like Roosevelt should of done in the 1930's. McCain will have no trouble if he is elected doing what needs to be done because he can work with both sides of the aisle, a lot better than Bush in my opinion.

Iriemon · 05-21-08, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

I don't trust them either. I don't think they have completely taken their diapers off yet, but at least their people are seeing more freedoms and choices due to them embracing free markets versus their old systems that regulated everything down to a paperclip. Can we ever trust them? I'm not sure, but they know we are not the weak lazy capitalist pigs after Korea and Vietnam, and the Cuban missle crisis. I would rather have our influence in the middle east versus them.

The middle east is worth intervening with now in my opinion, just like we should of done with Germany and Japan in the 1930's.

We would have gotten our *** kicked if we tried to intervene in Germany in the 30s.

Should we have intervened in Czechoslovakia in 1968? Or only where the opponent is weak enough we can beat up on them without too much risk to ourselves?

partier9 · 05-21-08, 06:36 PM

Quote:

We would have gotten our *** kicked if we tried to intervene in Germany in the 30s.

No we wouldn't of in the 30's or most of it Germany's military was weak and not well trained. It wasn't until Germany got Austria that it started to get strong. When Germany took the Rhineland German generals were afraid that if France resisted they would of gotten there butts kicked because they were under trained.

Iriemon · 05-21-08, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by partier9

No we wouldn't of in the 30's or most of it Germany's military was weak and not well trained. It wasn't until Germany got Austria that it started to get strong. When Germany took the Rhineland German generals were afraid that if France resisted they would of gotten there butts kicked because they were under trained.

In 1939 the US army was 18th in the world, behind such powers as Spain and Bulgaria. The US was in no position to threaten Germany. When Roosevelt issued a declaration that Germany must respect the independence of European states, he was laughed at in the Reichstag because it was an empty gesture.

aegyptos · 05-21-08, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

In 1939 the US army was 18th in the world, behind such powers as Spain and Bulgaria. The US was in no position to threaten Germany. When Roosevelt issued a declaration that Germany must respect the independence of European states, he was laughed at in the Reichstag because it was an empty gesture.

No credible individual has ever suggested that the US should have or could have intervened in Germany in the 1930s. If you look at a map you will at once notice that Germany is in the middle of EUROPE. Germany is therefore NOT OUR PROBLEM.

You punted on this question when I asked it of you concerning the Japanese before 1941 but once again I must ask it, what legal device could FDR possibly use to invade a country we are not at war with and poses no credible threat to any inportant US interest?

Iriemon · 05-21-08, 10:26 PM

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Originally Posted by aegyptos

No credible individual has ever suggested that the US should have or could have intervened in Germany in the 1930s.

That was precisely what was suggested here.

Quote:

If you look at a map you will at once notice that Germany is in the middle of EUROPE. Germany is therefore NOT OUR PROBLEM.

You have a point. One could also argue that every nation has a interest in repelling the attack of an aggressor nation.

Quote:

You punted on this question when I asked it of you concerning the Japanese before 1941 but once again I must ask it, what legal device could FDR possibly use to invade a country we are not at war with and poses no credible threat to any inportant US interest?

I did not punt, I stated: "I'm not sure you mean by what legal device." You punted by not clarifying your question. I'll ask it again. What legal device are you referring to? US law? International law? The concept of just war?

aegyptos · 05-21-08, 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

I did not punt, I stated: "I'm not sure you mean by what legal device." You punted by not clarifying your question. I'll ask it again. What legal device are you referring to? US law? International law? The concept of just war?

Let me put it this way... under what theory of law, international or domestic, could the United States launch a war to deterr Japan or Germany prior to WW2?

Awesome! · 05-22-08, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

We would have gotten our *** kicked if we tried to intervene in Germany in the 30s.

Should we have intervened in Czechoslovakia in 1968? Or only where the opponent is weak enough we can beat up on them without too much risk to ourselves?

We don't beat up on opponents for sport... we try to survive as a nation and protect our interests. We almost started WW3 before 1968 because of Cuba, but we had to intervene because we couldn't have nukes that close to us.

Intervening in Germany probably wasn't possible after she rebuilt her war machine, because we chose to isolate ourselves under the assumption that WW1 was the war to end all wars and we weren't involved like we should of been in the league of nations and world affairs to put a stop to it.

Our current strategy of intervening is the best strategy in my opinion and we have the results of WW2 to support that.

Iriemon · 05-22-08, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aegyptos

Let me put it this way... under what theory of law, international or domestic, could the United States launch a war to deterr Japan or Germany prior to WW2?

Declaration of war by Congress.

Iriemon · 05-22-08, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Awesome!

We don't beat up on opponents for sport... we try to survive as a nation and protect our interests. We almost started WW3 before 1968 because of Cuba, but we had to intervene because we couldn't have nukes that close to us.

Intervening in Germany probably wasn't possible after she rebuilt her war machine, because we chose to isolate ourselves under the assumption that WW1 was the war to end all wars and we weren't involved like we should of been in the league of nations and world affairs to put a stop to it.

Our current strategy of intervening is the best strategy in my opinion and we have the results of WW2 to support that.

I'm not sure that WWII shows that; Germany's intervention in Poland caused the war, not prevented it.