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Pardon Plea by Adolf Eichmann, Nazi War Criminal, Is Made Public

JANFU

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http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/28/world/middleeast/israel-adolf-eichmann-holocaust.html

“There is a need to draw a line between the leaders responsible and the people like me forced to serve as mere instruments in the hands of the leaders,” pleaded Eichmann — the Nazi war criminal who oversaw the lethal logistics of the Holocaust — in a letter dated May 29, 1962, the day that Israel’s Supreme Court rejected his appeal.

Eichmann asked the Israeli president, Yitzhak Ben-Zvi, for a pardon, arguing, “I was not a responsible leader, and as such do not feel myself guilty.”
Died begging for his life.
 
Funny how that happens...
 
I'm reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". I havent gotten that far yet, just his assignment to that position.

It's a fascinating read. And really illuminating. It's amazing that we havent learned more from history.
 
I don't care if he had a gun to his head the entire time to carry it out.

Murder is murder.

And he organized it over many years...it was not a spur of the moment, during the heat of battle kind of thing.

He was a ****ing maggot and the fact he felt little remorse just proves it.

Kudos to Israel for tracking him down and bringing him to justice. They could have just assassinated him, but they actually went to all the trouble to bring him to trial.
 
I'm reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich". I havent gotten that far yet, just his assignment to that position.

It's a fascinating read. And really illuminating. It's amazing that we havent learned more from history.

A good book for its time. You might get more out of Detlev Peukert's books for a look at German culture during the Wiemar Republic, and how Nazi policies affected Germany in the aftermath of their political victories.

The Weimar Republic: The Crisis of Classical Modernity and Inside Nazi Germany: Conformity, Opposition, and Racism in Everyday Life will give a littler more 'granularity' to life on the ground in those times than the 'big picture' type books will. Peukert was a Red, but his histories are in the 'annalist' style many Marxists in France and Germany used, and are largely free of ideological screeds and posturing, one of the few things academic Marxists were actually good at, writing about 'the little stuff'. A link to Amazon, with these on the top of the list:

Amazon.com: Detlev Peukert: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle
 
A good book for its time. You might get more out of Detlev Peukert's books for a look at German culture during the Wiemar Republic, and how Nazi policies affected Germany in the aftermath of their political victories.

The Weimar Republic: The Crisis of Classical Modernity and Inside Nazi Germany: Conformity, Opposition, and Racism in Everyday Life will give a littler more 'granularity' to life on the ground in those times than the 'big picture' type books will. Peukert was a Red, but his histories are in the 'annalist' style many Marxists in France and Germany used, and are largely free of ideological screeds and posturing, one of the few things academic Marxists were actually good at, writing about 'the little stuff'. A link to Amazon, with these on the top of the list:

Amazon.com: Detlev Peukert: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle

"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" covers all that. Of course it is just one account altho it takes it's information from first hand accounts...the writer was there and observed...and the info from many historic documents and the transcripts from the Nuremburg Trials (among others) and personal interviews. It may be big picture but it is well over a thousand pages and zeros in very specifically on many things, it's very organized and starts with Hitler's birth and the history of Germany itself to create a better understanding of why the German people were predisposed to accept his reign.

But I am using it as a general, broad base and will find other books to focus on specific areas to see what's been learned since, where there is consensus/disagreement, etc.

thanks, I'll check that one out but I also want to find something about how 'modern' Germany views that period, what they recognize and what they dont, what laws have come from that period in response to it, etc. i found that after reading about the Rape of Nanking, it was fascinating to learn that Japan has not taken full responsibility for it, even tho diplomats and representatives from many nations documented it first-hand at the time, and that they do not teach it in school, it is barely acknowleged.
 
"The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" covers all that. Of course it is just one account altho it takes it's information from first hand accounts...the writer was there and observed...and the info from many historic documents and the transcripts from the Nuremburg Trials (among others) and personal interviews. It may be big picture but it is well over a thousand pages and zeros in very specifically on many things, it's very organized and starts with Hitler's birth and the history of Germany itself to create a better understanding of why the German people were predisposed to accept his reign.

Yes, I've read it and still have it. I wasn't saying don't read it, just making you aware of other books better at some things. Enjoy them all. Few people read history these days, and books are still far better than snippets on web pages.
 

There was enormous debate within the Israeli cabinet about whether or not to grant clemency. Ben Gurion took multiple cabinet votes and consulted Jewish ethical luminaries like Martin Buber and received letters from scores of prominent figures. In the end there was an overwhelming majority in favor of execution when the final cabinet vote was taken but it wasn't unanimous (11-2) and many who voted for it professed that they felt uneasy.

A famous line from a letter penned at the time of the trial: "We do not want the enemy to lead us to bring forth from among us a hangman, and if we do so, this will constitute a victory for the enemy and we do not want this victory of his."

However I think the right decision was made.
 
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Yes, I've read it and still have it. I wasn't saying don't read it, just making you aware of other books better at some things. Enjoy them all. Few people read history these days, and books are still far better than snippets on web pages.

I love history and global history was pretty lacking in my schools. The focus was mainly American History.

I would love a good compendium of European history, if you can recommend one, and then I can split off from that into more specific areas.

I have really enjoyed reading the histories of Mexico, Stalin's Russia and the Chinese revolution and famine.

Also excellent are 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus: Charles C. Mann: 9781400032051: Amazon.com: Books and 1493: Uncovering the New World Columbus Created: Charles C. Mann: 9780307278241: Amazon.com: Books
 
There was enormous debate within the Israeli cabinet about whether or not to grant clemency. Ben Gurion took multiple cabinet votes and consulted Jewish ethical luminaries like Martin Buber and received letters from scores of prominent figures. In the end there was an overwhelming majority in favor of execution when the final cabinet vote was taken but it wasn't unanimous (11-2) and many who voted for it professed that they felt uneasy.

A famous line from a letter penned at the time of the trial: "We do not want the enemy to lead us to bring forth from among us a hangman, and if we do so, this will constitute a victory for the enemy and we do not want this victory of his."

However I think the right decision was made.

It was the symbolism, a catharsis many Jews as a group probably needed to move on, a victory in the sense of bringing him back for trial and accomplishing that was a big deal, and not just for Jews and Israel. And yes, he needed to be executed, 'fairly' or not. Bureaucrats everywhere need that sort of lesson about revenge and hand waving away such crimes. He would merely have been demoted to a lesser job, as was the case for many Germans who didn't play along with the Nazi regime. His excuse was ridiculous on its face.
 
I don't care if he had a gun to his head the entire time to carry it out.

Murder is murder.

And he organized it over many years...it was not a spur of the moment, during the heat of battle kind of thing.

He was a ****ing maggot and the fact he felt little remorse just proves it.

Kudos to Israel for tracking him down and bringing him to justice. They could have just assassinated him, but they actually went to all the trouble to bring him to trial.

I would argue that in Israel trying a nazi is the exact same thing as assassinating him.

There should've been an international tribunal of non-interested parties convened, unless the whole point was just to slap a happy face sticker on what was a straight up assassination. Eichmann's trial, is pretty much the equivalent of Finches trial into kill a mockingbird. The verdict was rendered long before Eichmann was ever arrested.

For the record I'm glad that I came in was killed, but I understand it is a killing it was not an execution it was a killing. And some people just need killin'
 
I would argue that in Israel trying a nazi is the exact same thing as assassinating him.

There should've been an international tribunal of non-interested parties convened, unless the whole point was just to slap a happy face sticker on what was a straight up assassination. Eichmann's trial, is pretty much the equivalent of Finches trial into kill a mockingbird. The verdict was rendered long before Eichmann was ever arrested.

For the record I'm glad that I came in was killed, but I understand it is a killing it was not an execution it was a killing. And some people just need killin'

I FAR preferred they did what they did for two reasons:

1) I think the verdict was a just one. The guy was clearly guilty.

2) You can always kill the wrong person if you just assassinate someone...which the Mossad later did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lillehammer_affair

No, I think kidnapping him and taking him to Israel for trial was WAY better then just killing him on the spot.
 
Adolf Eichmann was a complicated man and he was correct to describe himself as a mid-level functionary. The Israeli show trial exaggerated his importance for some reason. He rose only to the rank of SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and he never had the authority to make any policy decisions. There is no shame in petitioning for clemency.
 
Adolf Eichmann was a complicated man and he was correct to describe himself as a mid-level functionary. The Israeli show trial exaggerated his importance for some reason. He rose only to the rank of SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and he never had the authority to make any policy decisions. There is no shame in petitioning for clemency.

Schutzstaffel

The Schutzstaffel (SS; also stylized as Runic "ᛋᛋ" with Armanen runes; German pronunciation: [ˈʃʊtsˌʃtafəl] ( listen); literally "Protection Squadron") was a major paramilitary organization under Adolf Hitler and the National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP; Nazi Party). It began with a small guard unit known as the Saal-Schutz ("Hall-Protection") made up of NSDAP volunteers to provide security for Nazi Party meetings in Munich. In 1925, Heinrich Himmler joined the unit, which had by then been reformed and given its final name. Under Himmler's direction (1929–45), it grew from a small paramilitary formation to one of the most powerful organizations in the Third Reich. From 1929 until Nazi Germany's collapse in 1945, the SS was the foremost agency of surveillance and terror within Germany itself and the occupied territories in Europe.

The SS was the organization most responsible for the implementation of the Final Solution and members of all of its branches committed numerous crimes against humanity during World War II (1939–45). After Nazi Germany's defeat, the whole SS corps, along with the Nazi Party, were judged by the International Military Tribunal at Nuremberg to have been a criminal organization.
 
There was enormous debate within the Israeli cabinet about whether or not to grant clemency. Ben Gurion took multiple cabinet votes and consulted Jewish ethical luminaries like Martin Buber and received letters from scores of prominent figures. In the end there was an overwhelming majority in favor of execution when the final cabinet vote was taken but it wasn't unanimous (11-2) and many who voted for it professed that they felt uneasy.

A famous line from a letter penned at the time of the trial: "We do not want the enemy to lead us to bring forth from among us a hangman, and if we do so, this will constitute a victory for the enemy and we do not want this victory of his."

However I think the right decision was made.
I was not aware of this.
Thank you
 
Doesnt seem like he was begging for his life, he just didnt want to take the blame or the responsibility for what he did- typical psychopath. Nevertheless, his execution was a good thing.

Agreed.
 
Adolf Eichmann was a complicated man and he was correct to describe himself as a mid-level functionary. The Israeli show trial exaggerated his importance for some reason. He rose only to the rank of SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and he never had the authority to make any policy decisions. There is no shame in petitioning for clemency.

On the contrary, he may have not been a general but he was one of the main architects of the Final Solution- his team liasoned with practically every department to make sure that the trains carrying the Jews and other undesirables were running smoothly and he kept track of everything. He may not have been making the policies but he was totally in charge of operations for the whole thing, he was not some minor cog in the machine, he was the actual manager of the machine. He was a monster.
 
Eichmann died like the coward he was. May the bastard rot in hell.
 
Yes, I've read it and still have it. I wasn't saying don't read it, just making you aware of other books better at some things. Enjoy them all. Few people read history these days, and books are still far better than snippets on web pages.

I would say these would be complimentary to the work of Shirer is still seen as the bible of those years. Other books I have found fill in some of the material, but it was Shirers work that first linked the ancient culture of the region and how Nazism taped into that, taking it to it's conclusion

What is good about Shirer is that it is a very un-biased look by a very good professional journalist. It is almost impossible today to find such balanced and in depth writing

Anyone wanting to really know the story should start there
 
On the contrary, he may have not been a general but he was one of the main architects of the Final Solution- ...
Since Adolf Eichmann did not help create the policy of the Final Solution, he cannot accurately be described as one of its "main architects". Such a title belongs to Reinhardt Heydrich at the command of Herman Göring. It was Heydrich who was in charge of the Einsatzgruppen in the East, carrying-out the final solution without bothering to supply death camps. Eichmann was not involved with this aspect. Heydrich also issued the orders to his Gestapo machinery to do what was necessary in the West to prepare for deportations of Jews. Eichmann was not in that chain of responsibility either. It did fall to SS-Sturmbannführer (Major) Eichmann, as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) IV-B-4 (Jewish Affairs) manager to organize the actual deportations. Eichmann was obeying orders which he received from the Chief of IV-4, SS-Sturmbannführer Hartl who in turn received his instructions from RSHA IV (Gestapo) Chief, SS-Gruppenführer (Major General) Müller who took his orders from Heydrich. Eichmann, it can be seen, was far from being an architect of the final solution and more of a glorified train timetable clerk. This is what he attempted to explain to the Israeli court.
 
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Since Adolf Eichmann did not help create the policy of the Final Solution, he cannot accurately be described as one of its "main architects". Such a title belongs to Reinhardt Heydrich at the command of Herman Göring. It was Heydrich who was in charge of the Einsatzgruppen in the East, carrying-out the final solution without bothering to supply death camps. Eichmann was not involved with this aspect. Heydrich also issued the orders to his Gestapo machinery to do what was necessary in the West to prepare for deportations of Jews. Eichmann was not in that chain of responsibility either. It did fall to SS-Sturmbannführer (Major) Eichmann, as the Reichssicherheitshauptamt (RSHA) IV-B-4 (Jewish Affairs) manager to organize the actual deportations. Eichmann was obeying orders which he received from the Chief of IV-4, SS-Sturmbannführer Hartl who in turn received his instructions from RSHA IV (Gestapo) Chief, SS-Gruppenführer (Major General) Müller who took his orders from Heydrich. Eichmann, it can be seen, was far from being an architect of the final solution and more of a glorified train timetable clerk. This is what he attempted to explain to the Israeli court.

Read up on the Wansee conference- Eichmann was there along with Heydrich and he was his right hand man- in fact Heydrich died before the death camps even started operating and Eichmann was the one who carried out his orders to the fullest. Eichmann was right there when they planned the whole thing and he made sure the trains ran on time so he knew exactly what he was doing and he even took pride in doing it- he had all the numbers and his department oversaw it all. Without Eichmann the Nazis would not have been able to deport millions of Jews into those camps. That definitely makes him one of the main architects of the Final Solution. For you to even somehow suggest that he was just a mere clerk following orders is not only ridiculous but offensive to the memories of the millions who died in those camps that he sent the trains to.
 
Adolf Eichmann was a complicated man and he was correct to describe himself as a mid-level functionary. The Israeli show trial exaggerated his importance for some reason. He rose only to the rank of SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and he never had the authority to make any policy decisions. There is no shame in petitioning for clemency.

Nothing but historical revisionism. Eichmann was in charge of Jewish "emigration"... aka, deportations and exterminations to and at places like Auschwitz. He was the one who implemented some of the most heinous of the "Final Solution" policies. To claim otherwise is either outright dishonesty or historical ignorance.
 
Read up on the Wansee conference- Eichmann was there along with Heydrich and he was his right hand man- in fact Heydrich died before the death camps even started operating and Eichmann was the one who carried out his orders to the fullest. Eichmann was right there when they planned the whole thing and he made sure the trains ran on time so he knew exactly what he was doing and he even took pride in doing it- he had all the numbers and his department oversaw it all. Without Eichmann the Nazis would not have been able to deport millions of Jews into those camps. That definitely makes him one of the main architects of the Final Solution. For you to even somehow suggest that he was just a mere clerk following orders is not only ridiculous but offensive to the memories of the millions who died in those camps that he sent the trains to.
What you wrote is the familiar Israeli line and an exaggeration of Eichmann's rôle in the final solution. Yes, Eichmann was at Wannsee but he only kept the minutes. He was, (please do not take offense), a glorified secretary and not a person with any agency. Your attempt to make him a player of any importance is a misrepresentation of the facts. Heydrich was assassinated in June 1942 but by then the Einsatzgruppen had been active for almost three years in the East and whose actions contributed in a major way to what became known as the Final Solution under Heydrich's command. The Gestapo had been under orders from Heydrich in the West to process Jews for transport to concentration and death camps even before the Wannsee Conference at which the green light was given for the Final Solution. In September 1941 extermination of prisoners was taking place at Auschwitz. On 13 October 1941, three months before Wannsee, the SS and Police Leader Odilo Globocnik stationing in Lublin received an oral order from Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler to start immediate construction work on the killing center at Bełżec in the Generalgouvernement territory of occupied Poland. By then, the gassings at Kulmhof north of Łódź using gas vans began already in December 1941, under Sturmbannführer Herbert Lange. The camp at Bełżec was operational by March 1942, the month of Heydrich's death. The Final Solution was underway before Heydrich's death and who was one of the principal architects. Naturally very many were involved in its implementation among whom was Eichmann.

You cannot seriously believe, as you wrote, that without Eichmann the Nazis would not have been able to deport millions of Jews into those camps. Someone else with the clerical skill of a station master could and would have done the very same. No one was indispensable, not even Heydrich himself. To imply that the Jews would not have been transported by train to the extermination camps had Eichmann kicked the bucket in 1942 is manifestly false and if that is the reason you believe Eichmann was one of the main architects of the Final Solution, then you need to think again.

Please do not use the memories of the millions who died in death camps to score a debating point. Eichmann was a paper-pusher, a banal mid-level functionary. He could have been replaced at any time with an equally capable SS bureaucrat in the same way that the Polish train driver rostered to take a train from Kattowitz station to Auschwitz-Birkenau could have been replaced with the stroke of a pen on a timesheet. This is not to say that there was not a personnel challenge throughout the German bureaucracy, especially as the war progressed. There was a sparseness of personnel outside the Reich where most of the victims had to be destroyed, to be sure. Even Eichmann had two jobs; organizing the deportation of Jews and the resettlement of ethnic Germans. Bear in mind that in a dictatorship, a decision is made at the top and what follows is a bureaucratic "uncritical recipient of orders" (Albert Speer's testimony at Nürnberg). In its zeal to apportion the most grievous blame on anyone involved in the Final Solution, the responsibility of individuals has been overplayed and their culpability given equal status as those who conceived the plan and used their authority to see it was carried-out.

Eichmann was not an innocent man and he bore personal responsibility for accepting and carrying-out orders which he should have known were criminal in nature. He is an example of a man who will get involved in an inhumane policy while feeling justified that he was doing the bidding of his superiors and the government they served. I have no doubt that there are U.S. military personnel who have a clear conscience having tortured prisoners at Guantánamo Concentration Camp knowing that they were obeying orders handed down with the knowledge and approval of their Commander-in-Chief.
 
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What you wrote is the familiar Israeli line and an exaggeration of Eichmann's rôle in the final solution.
Wrong, I stand for the truth. Your words are nothing but revisionism, the same twisted logic and falsehoods that the neo-nazis write about. Just like a previous poster in this forum who made the claim that the pool they used to store water in Auschwitz was a swimming pool.


The Gestapo had been under orders from Heydrich in the West to process Jews for transport to concentration and death camps even before the Wannsee Conference at which the green light was given for the Final Solution. In September 1941 extermination of prisoners was taking place at Auschwitz. On 13 October 1941, three months before Wannsee, the SS and Police Leader Odilo Globocnik stationing in Lublin received an oral order from Reichsführer-SS Heinrich Himmler to start immediate construction work on the killing center at Bełżec in the Generalgouvernement territory of occupied Poland. By then, the gassings at Kulmhof north of Łódź using gas vans began already in December 1941, under Sturmbannführer Herbert Lange. The camp at Bełżec was operational by March 1942, the month of Heydrich's death.
Everything youve said merely confirms what Ive already said about Heydrich's death before the death camps opened. Your previous post claimed that it was Heydrich who oversaw it all and now youre changing your story again, just like the revisionists. In fact it was Eichmann who took over and by then he was receiving his orders directly from Heinrich Himmler. The Nazis under Hitler always had overlapping commands and responsibilities- and that was done on purpose. However when it came to transporting all Jewish populations for liquidation it was Eichmann's department that handled it all- this was the directive that was put in place after Wannsee.

You cannot seriously believe, as you wrote, that without Eichmann the Nazis would not have been able to deport millions of Jews into those camps. Someone else with the clerical skill of a station master could and would have done the very same.
Eichmann was not a station master- this has been told time and time again to you. Eichmann himself admitted that he was in charge of all transportation for the Final Solution.The prime example of this is Hungary- the moment the Nazis invaded, Eichmann went over there and personally ordered the deportation of close to half a million Jews to the death camps. It was his personal involvement that made this possible- even when the Hungarian government wanted it to stop.

Eichmann was not an innocent man and he bore personal responsibility for accepting and carrying-out orders which he should have known were criminal in nature. He is an example of a man who will get involved in an inhumane policy while feeling justified that he was doing the bidding of his superiors and the government they served.
Wrong. Very wrong. Eichmann was a vicious anti-semite who made it his personal crusade to kill as many Jews as possible- he did it to avenge Heydrich's death and to honor his superior's wishes. He himself admitted this.

Eichmann said towards the end of the war that he would "leap laughing into the grave because the feeling that he had five million people on his conscience would be for him a source of extraordinary satisfaction."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann
 
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