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Pardon Plea by Adolf Eichmann, Nazi War Criminal, Is Made Public

Heinrich said:
You misunderstood my posts.


No one doubts this.


I am sure he believed this. He was charged with transporting Jews and he did that without question.


Eichmann was a driven man.


This shows Eichmann had self-insight and bore moral, if not legal, guilt.


There is no record of Eichmann opening his mouth at Wannsee. I explained in an earlier post that being in charge of RSHA IV B 4 (Jewish Affairs) was a mid-level management position.


You cannot name one policy produced by Eichmann because there is none.


The SS were very rank-conscious and adhered to a chain of command. It was real and not symbolic.


Of course everyone in the SS had a rank because it meant a lot.


Yes, exceptions were made for Mischlinge (mixed blood) and Jews who served honorably in WWI. Hard to believe but true.


Robert H. Jackson, as the chief U.S. prosecutor at the Nuremberg trials cannot be taken as an objective source. If he made the statement you quote, he was factually incorrect. Eichmann was not in charge of the extermination program as I demonstrated earlier.


Eichmann did not work in a death camp.


Eichmann never worked as a member of an Einsatzgruppe.


This is manifestly false. Millions of Jews survived in Europe, many moving to the USA and to Palestine where they founded a Jewish state.


RSHA IV B 4 was not a gigantic organization. It developed out of the Jewish Department, Section II/112, of the Security Service (SD). There was also, and separate, the Reich Central Office for Jewish Emigration (Reichszentrale für die jüdische Auswanderung), headed by Reinhard Heydrich begun in 1939, with branches in Berlin, Vienna (where Eichmann was assigned in 1938), and Prague. Until 1940 this Office was concerned with all aspects of Jewish emigration from the Reich, financial arrangements whereby migrants surrendered their property to cover the costs of the operation (similar to what the Danes are doing today with the refugees), issuing travel papers (registration), liaison with other governments, and so forth. Eichmann coordinated with the Central Office up to the end of the war. I do not know how many employees were under his charge in RSHA IV B 4 but it was probably few as it was essentially a bureaucratic task of coordinating with the Jewish Councils, Railways, holding centers, and receiving camps. He seems to have been personally involved in dogsbody tasks and even had to organize transport for German refugees which suggests he did not have a whole lot of help.
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You do not seem to understand why Eichmann is considered a culprit behind the holocaust.

You say that he did not work at a death camp, but he was the logistics man behind the operation of the death camp system.

The death camps were only one part of a vast beaucratic system designed to carry out the final solution.

Eichmann managed the logistics of the death camps and made sure they ran efficiently.

Eichmann is guilty because he brought efficiency to a project of industrialized human extermination. If he had tried to run it inefficiently in order to slow the systematic killing, that would show some spark of consciousness.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
You do not seem to understand why Eichmann is considered a culprit behind the holocaust.
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Anyone who considers Eichmann to have been a "culprit behind the holocaust" is mistaken for the reasons I gave earlier.

Unitedwestand13 said:
You say that he did not work at a death camp, but he was the logistics man behind the operation of the death camp system.
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Eichmann had no rôle in the operations of any death camps.

Unitedwestand13 said:
The death camps were only one part of a vast bureaucratic system designed to carry out the final solution.
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It would be a mistake to consider death camps as a bureaucracy although there was some bureaucracy involved. Eichmann organized the train transports to the camps. I expect he would have informed the camp commandants of scheduled arrivals.

Unitedwestand13 said:
Eichmann managed the logistics of the death camps and made sure they ran efficiently.
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Eichmann had no function in death camp operations. Logistically, it was the railways which made sure the trains ran on time.

Unitedwestand13 said:
Eichmann is guilty because he brought efficiency to a project of industrialized human extermination. If he had tried to run it inefficiently in order to slow the systematic killing, that would show some spark of consciousness.
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Eichmann later admitted moral guilt for the part he played in transporting Jews. It was others, at the very top, who developed the policy of the Final Solution and who authorized all operations. At the time, Eichmann did not question the policy of the destruction of European Jewry and must have believed in it.
 
Heinrich said:
Anyone who considers Eichmann to have been a "culprit behind the holocaust" is mistaken for the reasons I gave earlier.
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Your opinion is noted. My signature applies.

Heinrich said:
Eichmann had no rôle in the operations of any death camps.
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How did the Jews get to the camps?

Heinrich said:
It would be a mistake to consider death camps as a bureaucracy although there was some bureaucracy involved. Eichmann organized the train transports to the camps. I expect he would have informed the camp commandants of scheduled arrivals.
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How did the Jews get to the camps?

Heinrich said:
Eichmann had no function in death camp operations. Logistically, it was the railways which made sure the trains ran on time.
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How did the Jews get to the camps?

Heinrich said:
Eichmann later admitted moral guilt for the part he played in transporting Jews.
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Orly?

"Hätten wir 10,3 Millionen Juden getötet, dann wäre ich befriedigt und würde sagen, gut, wir haben einen Feind vernichtet. … Ich war kein normaler Befehlsempfänger, dann wäre ich ein Trottel gewesen, sondern ich habe mitgedacht, ich war ein Idealist gewesen."

"I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction."


Heinrich said:
It was others, at the very top, who developed the policy of the Final Solution and who authorized all operations. At the time, Eichmann did not question the policy of the destruction of European Jewry and must have believed in it.
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How did the Jews get to the camps?
 
Lursa said:
I love history and global history was pretty lacking in my schools. The focus was mainly American History.

I would love a good compendium of European history, if you can recommend one, and then I can split off from that into more specific areas.

I have really enjoyed reading the histories of Mexico, Stalin's Russia and the Chinese revolution and famine.

Also excellent are 1491: New Revelations of the Americas Before Columbus: Charles C. Mann: 9781400032051: Amazon.com: Books and 1493: Uncovering the New World Columbus Created: Charles C. Mann: 9780307278241: Amazon.com: Books
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Compendiums are always sort of lacking. It's like buying an all in one appliance: you sacrifice some quality for convenience.

So pick something in world history that really draws your attention, and buy a book on it. That way leads you on an odyssey that gets really in depth into world history because you find that it's all connected.

I once wrote a paper on how Sullivan's "Manifest Destiny" and "The Ulster Plantations" were the very same thing carried out the very same ways for the very same reasons.
 
jet57 said:
Compendiums are always sort of lacking. It's like buying an all in one appliance: you sacrifice some quality for convenience.

So pick something in world history that really draws your attention, and buy a book on it. That way leads you on an odyssey that gets really in depth into world history because you find that it's all connected.

I once wrote a paper on how Sullivan's "Manifest Destiny" and "The Ulster Plantations" were the very same thing carried out the very same ways for the very same reasons.
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But it's a start. A general overview so that I discover where I want to focus next. Like right now, reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," I really want to read a history of Poland next.

But you are right and that is exactly how I usually go about it. Next it's Poland, but I really do want to investigate Europe as a whole and as individual countries cuz I just cannot figure out the feudalistic systems and how countries like Luxumborg or Monaco remain and the hatreds between cultures and ethnicities...fascinating!
 
Lursa said:
But it's a start. A general overview so that I discover where I want to focus next. Like right now, reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," I really want to read a history of Poland next.

But you are right and that is exactly how I usually go about it. Next it's Poland, but I really do want to investigate Europe as a whole and as individual countries cuz I just cannot figure out the feudalistic systems and how countries like Luxumborg or Monaco remain and the hatreds between cultures and ethnicities...fascinating!
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Excellent. I really hope you enjoy yourself.

On feudalism, read about William the Conqueror. He introduced it. Before him and during teh dark ages, land was held very much like today, on the Alodial system: free ownership. William's Domesday Book introduced taxes. Feudalism is all gone now, but some monarchies, like England and Monaco etc still exist as historical tradition for those countries.

Yeah, Poland took a horrible bath: Hitler actually faked the reason for invading Poland; he wanted a slave labor force and he hated Slavs.

Good luck!!
 
jet57 said:
Excellent. I really hope you enjoy yourself.

On feudalism, read about William the Conqueror. He introduced it. Before him and during teh dark ages, land was held very much like today, on the Alodial system: free ownership. William's Domesday Book introduced taxes. Feudalism is all gone now, but some monarchies, like England and Monaco etc still exist as historical tradition for those countries.

Yeah, Poland took a horrible bath: Hitler actually faked the reason for invading Poland; he wanted a slave labor force and he hated Slavs.

Good luck!!
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Believe it or not, a great way to find your way thru history is reading about things like: salt, tea, coffee, alcohol, and my favorite, disease. A few books on the bubonic plague for instance, expains alot about Europe. (I love reading about epidemiology)
 
jet57 said:
Yeah, Poland took a horrible bath: Hitler actually faked the reason for invading Poland; he wanted a slave labor force and he hated Slavs.
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He faked Austria and Chechoslovkia as well, big time, with what we now call 'false flag' conflicts. Crying that German citizens in those countries were being persecuted. And Neville Chamberlin is a fantastic example (of an idiot) of the costs of attempting to avoid a limited war and hoping to appease a smaller country's mandates.

He's just going after Poland now, lol. That's as far as I've gotten. Hello 1939!
 
Lursa said:
Believe it or not, a great way to find your way thru history is reading about things like: salt, tea, coffee, alcohol, and my favorite, disease. A few books on the bubonic plague for instance, expains alot about Europe. (I love reading about epidemiology)
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Very very true.
 
Lursa said:
Believe it or not, a great way to find your way thru history is reading about things like: salt, tea, coffee, alcohol, and my favorite, disease. A few books on the bubonic plague for instance, expains alot about Europe. (I love reading about epidemiology)
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Try the book 'Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies'
 
Abbazorkzog said:
During cross-examination, prosecutor Hausner asked Eichmann if he considered himself guilty of the murder of millions of Jews. Eichmann replied: "Legally not, but in the human sense … yes, for I am guilty of having deported them". When Hausner produced as evidence a quote by Eichmann in 1945 stating: "I will leap into my grave laughing because the feeling that I have five million human beings on my conscience is for me a source of extraordinary satisfaction." Eichmann countered the claim saying that he was referring only to "enemies of the Reich".
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And other then Jews, what other "5 million enemies of the Reich" were there? Specifically that he would have had anything to do with their elimination?

That one single quote to me essentially condemns him in my eyes. Anything said afterward is nothing but spin control in an attempt to save his own life and nothing else.
 
Lursa said:
But it's a start. A general overview so that I discover where I want to focus next. Like right now, reading "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich," I really want to read a history of Poland next.

But you are right and that is exactly how I usually go about it. Next it's Poland, but I really do want to investigate Europe as a whole and as individual countries cuz I just cannot figure out the feudalistic systems and how countries like Luxumborg or Monaco remain and the hatreds between cultures and ethnicities...fascinating!
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Holler when you get interested in WW I and/or the 500 A.D.-1750's era; the thread is de-railing a little now. WW I is related to WW II, as WW II is largely just WW I, Part II re Europe, Russia and the West; the Pacific War not so much, as it was practically a separate war in itself that just coincided with the western war.
 
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