• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

How would the world be Different: Vikings America

blackjack50

blackjack50

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 14, 2011
Messages
26,629
Reaction score
6,661
Location
Florida
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Conservative
How different would the world be had the Vikings established a real colony in North America? Just a pontification.
 
Definitely hairier.
 
Vem känner egentligen?
 
It wouldn't have been different by very much, except that the various interactions between Europeans and native Americans would have started sooner. It was the increasing growth of knowledge and technology in Europe that had a pressure on N American aboriginals. The time line would have just been stretched out.
 
The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Apparently He first wanted a Spanish Empire to ensure His Holy Catholic Church would survive the upcoming Protestant revolution.

:)
 
Riveroaks said:
The Lord works in mysterious ways.

Apparently He first wanted a Spanish Empire to ensure His Holy Catholic Church would survive the upcoming Protestant revolution.

:)
Click to expand...

Odin wanted that?
 
Ganesh said:
It wouldn't have been different by very much, except that the various interactions between Europeans and native Americans would have started sooner. It was the increasing growth of knowledge and technology in Europe that had a pressure on N American aboriginals. The time line would have just been stretched out.
Click to expand...

Well part of my thinking is that you would have had the knowledge of that land far Sooner. And we didn't developer truly better technology till later. The Natives could have defeated the Europeans, BUT disease would have been a major factor. And I wonder what an extra few hundred years of exposure would have done?

Plus Sweden wasn't a pushover nation. That would have been another power who might have influenced the new world later. Just a thought.
 
zyzygy said:
Odin wanted that?
Click to expand...

Whenever an army conquers a city, they then go up to the city's shrines and dash them to pieces.

The winners' gods thusly become also vanquishers.

Thor, Odin, Freyja, and Tiwes, of the 13th Century were thusly vanquished by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of Catholic King Charles 5th of Spain and Pope Leo 10th.

The gods' Norse names remain in the English language to remind us of Thursday, Wednesday, Friday and Tuesday instead.

Nothing more.
 
Riveroaks said:
Thor, Odin, Freyja, and Tiwes, of the 13th Century were thusly vanquished by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of Catholic King Charles 5th of Spain and Pope Leo 10th.
Click to expand...
Just FYI, there hasn't yet been a King Charles V (5th) of Spain. If you are referring to King Charles I (1st) of Spain, aka Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (5th), then you are three centuries out; he ruled in the 16th century.
 
stonewall50 said:
Well part of my thinking is that you would have had the knowledge of that land far Sooner. And we didn't developer truly better technology till later. The Natives could have defeated the Europeans, BUT disease would have been a major factor. And I wonder what an extra few hundred years of exposure would have done?

Plus Sweden wasn't a pushover nation. That would have been another power who might have influenced the new world later. Just a thought.
Click to expand...


Mmmm... maybe. Vikings in chain mail with steel weapons could probably slaughter leather-clad natives using stone tipped spears at a ratio of at least 5 to 1.
 
Goshin said:
Mmmm... maybe. Vikings in chain mail with steel weapons could probably slaughter leather-clad natives using stone tipped spears at a ratio of at least 5 to 1.
Click to expand...
Well, maybe so, but the natives might well have outnumbered the Vikings by significantly more than 5:1, no?
 
Andalublue said:
Well, maybe so, but the natives might well have outnumbered the Vikings by significantly more than 5:1, no?
Click to expand...



Depends, the tribes were not real organized o n a large scale.
 
Goshin said:
Mmmm... maybe. Vikings in chain mail with steel weapons could probably slaughter leather-clad natives using stone tipped spears at a ratio of at least 5 to 1.
Click to expand...

Idk. Good point, but it really depended on the tribe too. The Vikings would have been at a disadvantage to a tribe that would use the natural expanse to perform guerrilla warfare. But the tribe they came into contact with became extinct if I'm not mistake (much later though). It would have been the Algonquin tribes there. I'm not well versed on Native American history.
 
Goshin said:
Depends, the tribes were not real organized o n a large scale.
Click to expand...

True, but the Vikings were never large in number. The Great Heathen Army, the so-called scourge of Saxon Britain, was a force of only a couple of thousand men. The largest Norse army ever to put to the field was that of Harald Hardrada at the Battle of Stamford Bridge in 1066, and that didn't make five figures. So I think the scale of any concerted Viking invasion of North America would have to be seen in that light. Fierce they were, multitudinous, most certainly not.
 
Andalublue said:
Just FYI, there hasn't yet been a King Charles V (5th) of Spain. If you are referring to King Charles I (1st) of Spain, aka Holy Roman Emperor Charles V (5th), then you are three centuries out; he ruled in the 16th century.
Click to expand...

1500's during the Spanish Conquest, correct. He is very famous in history. By then the Vikings were ghosts and their gods merely a distant memory.

ZY had asked about Odin one of their gods. We only remember him for Wednesdays now.

Andalublue said:
True, but the Vikings were never large in number. The Great Heathen Army, the so-called scourge of Saxon Britain, was a force of only a couple of thousand men. The largest Norse army ever to put to the field was that of Harald Hardrada at the Battle of Stamford Bridge in 1066, and that didn't make five figures. So I think the scale of any concerted Viking invasion of North America would have to be seen in that light. Fierce they were, multitudinous, most certainly not.
Click to expand...

I think that had the Vikes redirected their attention towards Vinland America then they could have colonized it.

But there was no gold or silver there -- no Catholic monasteries to loot.

They would have lost interest, just like all pirates everywhere.

They did not come to farm and grow.

They came to lower Europe to rob and burn.
 
Last edited:
stonewall50 said:
Idk. Good point, but it really depended on the tribe too. The Vikings would have been at a disadvantage to a tribe that would use the natural expanse to perform guerrilla warfare. But the tribe they came into contact with became extinct if I'm not mistake (much later though). It would have been the Algonquin tribes there. I'm not well versed on Native American history.
Click to expand...

Do you remember the name Custer?

Goshin said:
Depends, the tribes were not real organized o n a large scale.
Click to expand...

Also true, and at first the Whites were a novelty to them. Early on they started stealing the exotically beautiful white women, and then skirmishes broke out over it. Some early settlements completely disappeared.
 
Riveroaks said:
Whenever an army conquers a city, they then go up to the city's shrines and dash them to pieces.

The winners' gods thusly become also vanquishers.

Thor, Odin, Freyja, and Tiwes, of the 13th Century were thusly vanquished by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit of Catholic King Charles 5th of Spain and Pope Leo 10th.

The gods' Norse names remain in the English language to remind us of Thursday, Wednesday, Friday and Tuesday instead.

Nothing more.
Click to expand...

Funny!
 
Andalublue said:
True, but the Vikings were never large in number. The Great Heathen Army, the so-called scourge of Saxon Britain, was a force of only a couple of thousand men. The largest Norse army ever to put to the field was that of Harald Hardrada at the Battle of Stamford Bridge in 1066, and that didn't make five figures. So I think the scale of any concerted Viking invasion of North America would have to be seen in that light. Fierce they were, multitudinous, most certainly not.
Click to expand...

the force that entered england was multinational.
 
Riveroaks said:
1500's during the Spanish Conquest, correct. He is very famous in history. By then the Vikings were ghosts and their gods merely a distant memory.

ZY had asked about Odin one of their gods. We only remember him for Wednesdays now.



I think that had the Vikes redirected their attention towards Vinland America then they could have colonized it.

But there was no gold or silver there -- no Catholic monasteries to loot.

They would have lost interest, just like all pirates everywhere.

They did not come to farm and grow.

They came to lower Europe to rob and burn.
Click to expand...
The Vikings that came to Iceland very much DID farm and grow. Those that settled in France (Normandy) did very much the same, besides setting out to conquer other lands and rule them. They settled coastal strips of Greenland for about 500 years. One need remember that they were never a homogeneous nation under one rule, but rather many bands ruled by various nobles and kings.

Their reputation has been colored by English and French experience and, to a smaller part, by the experience of people living along the Atlantic seaboard of Europe. Those primarily experienced Vikings as raiders and slaughterers.

Their function as superior navigators, fearless explorers and astute traders was thus shoved into the background. They were co-founders of the Russian people(s). Rus denotes rowing.

Leif Erikson, after his first landing in Vinland, returned a couple of times. Two brothers visited the settlements later.

Why the settlements finally became extinct remains a mystery but most likely there was lack of a concerted effort to colonize. Unlike Iceland where an inflow from Scandinavia continued for some time after discovery, the Vinland expeditions barely held a couple of hundred people each time. It would appear that Vinland was always seen as an outpost with no function of importance.
 
Chagos said:
The Vikings that came to Iceland very much DID farm and grow. Those that settled in France (Normandy) did very much the same, besides setting out to conquer other lands and rule them. They settled coastal strips of Greenland for about 500 years. One need remember that they were never a homogeneous nation under one rule, but rather many bands ruled by various nobles and kings.

Their reputation has been colored by English and French experience and, to a smaller part, by the experience of people living along the Atlantic seaboard of Europe. Those primarily experienced Vikings as raiders and slaughterers.

Their function as superior navigators, fearless explorers and astute traders was thus shoved into the background. They were co-founders of the Russian people(s). Rus denotes rowing.

Leif Erikson, after his first landing in Vinland, returned a couple of times. Two brothers visited the settlements later.

Why the settlements finally became extinct remains a mystery but most likely there was lack of a concerted effort to colonize. Unlike Iceland where an inflow from Scandinavia continued for some time after discovery, the Vinland expeditions barely held a couple of hundred people each time. It would appear that Vinland was always seen as an outpost with no function of importance.
Click to expand...

We are both speculating of course.

The main difference between Iceland and Vinland was Native Americans at the latter.

Maybe the Natives raided the camps and took off with the women.

Wouldn't have been the first time in history that this happened.
 
Riveroaks said:
We are both speculating of course.

The main difference between Iceland and Vinland was Native Americans at the latter.

Maybe the Natives raided the camps and took off with the women.

Wouldn't have been the first time in history that this happened.
Click to expand...
Indeed.

We have only accounts from the Norsemen themselves and they make no mention of their women taken. But then for macho reasons they might not have cared to make it known. Were there were clashes, they were really nothing major, militarily speaking.

All likelihood points to the venture merely having petered out. Not enough enthusiast to even man another longboat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom