Adolf Hitler...the man behind the holocaust - Page 3

ARealConservative · 08-28-07, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the makeout hobo

Our entry into WWII saved Western Europe. As Iriemon pointed out, the USSR smashed most of the German military without our help. If the US and the UK hadn't launched D-Day and freed Western Europe, is possible that the USSR would have marched through Germany, the Lowlands, and France. If we had "let Hitler and Stalin duke it out", the UK might have been the only European country on our side of the Iron Curtain.

Now this is rhetoric.

the makeout hobo · 08-28-07, 01:30 PM

Can you please explain to me how that is rhetoric, or how that wasn't a likely possibility? I'd like to see your historical insight on what would have happened.

Iriemon · 08-28-07, 03:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the makeout hobo

Can you please explain to me how that is rhetoric, or how that wasn't a likely possibility? I'd like to see your historical insight on what would have happened.

I didn't see how it was rhetoric either.

ARealConservative · 08-28-07, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the makeout hobo

Can you please explain to me how that is rhetoric, or how that wasn't a likely possibility? I'd like to see your historical insight on what would have happened.

I'm sorry - this is an interesting debate. Let me get back to it tonight when I have more time to do it justice.

rhinefire · 08-31-07, 01:42 PM

Hitler was not a military genius, rather an excellent organizer of his military industrialized machine. Germany had it all machine-wise. Hitler's lust for conquest at any cost to his militarty was his demise.

YamoMabus · 09-04-07, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

In all likelihood, the USSR would have one. The Germans were first stopped outside Moscow in '41 just as the US entered the war. They were held in '42 before meaningful US aid, which was ever only a small percentage of total SU war output -- the T-34s were not made in the US. By the time the allied forces hit Normandy in June 44, the Germans had been beat. The cream of the Whermacht 6th Army was destroyed at Stalingrad in early '43 and the panzer corp decimated at Kursk in mid-43. By June 44, the Germans had been pushed several hundreds of miles out of Russia, and were reeling on the Polish border.

Rhetoric. But WWII was not at the turn of the century.

This is ridiculous and historicaly inaccurate. Its not a coincidence that the Germans were stopped outside of Moscow after we entered the war. We stretched their resources ten fold by the invasion of North Africa(which tied Rommel down for preciouse months he could have been using to defend against an allied invasion of western europe) and taxed the most crack troops of the German army who were leftover after the Easter front. Once America got involved Hitler had no chance, beforehand he was a few smashing victories away from world domination. The USSR was very close to collapse, and the only reason the Germans had to move so quickly to try and take Stalingrad was because they had to knock the soviets out of the war before the western front was established. Without us they could have sat on their resources and taken their time destroying Russia then invading England with most likely by that time very little resistence. Pure rhetoric.

Iriemon · 09-04-07, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon
In all likelihood, the USSR would have one. The Germans were first stopped outside Moscow in '41 just as the US entered the war. They were held in '42 before meaningful US aid, which was ever only a small percentage of total SU war output -- the T-34s were not made in the US. By the time the allied forces hit Normandy in June 44, the Germans had been beat. The cream of the Whermacht 6th Army was destroyed at Stalingrad in early '43 and the panzer corp decimated at Kursk in mid-43. By June 44, the Germans had been pushed several hundreds of miles out of Russia, and were reeling on the Polish border.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamoMabus

This is ridiculous and historicaly inaccurate. Its not a coincidence that the Germans were stopped outside of Moscow after we entered the war. We stretched their resources ten fold by the invasion of North Africa(which tied Rommel down for preciouse months he could have been using to defend against an allied invasion of western europe) and taxed the most crack troops of the German army who were leftover after the Easter front. Once America got involved Hitler had no chance, beforehand he was a few smashing victories away from world domination. The USSR was very close to collapse, and the only reason the Germans had to move so quickly to try and take Stalingrad was because they had to knock the soviets out of the war before the western front was established. Without us they could have sat on their resources and taken their time destroying Russia then invading England with most likely by that time very little resistence. Pure rhetoric.

You're new here, so I'm not familiar with your style, so forgive me for asking -- is this a joke?

If not, specifically which part of my post are you asserting is ridiculous and historically inaccurate?

YamoMabus · 09-04-07, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iriemon

You're new here, so I'm not familiar with your style, so forgive me for asking -- is this a joke?

If not, specifically which part of my post are you asserting is ridiculous and historically inaccurate?

The idea that the USSR would have pushed the Germans back without an Italian front or a Western front? Any military historian will tell you the same. The only joke is the idea the Russians could have by themselves pushed back the Nazis. You forget also that we sent them a huge amount of supplies upon our official entry.

Iriemon · 09-04-07, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YamoMabus

The idea that the USSR would have pushed the Germans back without an Italian front or a Western front? Any military historian will tell you the same. The only joke is the idea the Russians could have by themselves pushed back the Nazis. You forget also that we sent them a huge amount of supplies upon our official entry.

The Red army surrounded the German Sixth army in Stalingrad in January and February 1943 and began steadily pushing the Germans out at that time.

When did the allies invade Italy? When did the allies invade France?

How many divisions did the Italian campaign tie down for the Germans? How many were in the Eastern front?

How many T-34s or KV-2s were produced in the US?

YamoMabus · 09-04-07, 05:10 PM

You have to look deeper then just dates. The Germans were forced to penetrate farther into Russia then was necessary because of impending American invasion in western europe, not to mention that hundreds of thousand of troops were diverted from the eatern front to the African and E fronts. The USSR without the US was completely toast. Not to mention that Japan was kept from interfering due to its entanglment with the US.