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Tell me about Watergate

If I remember correctly, it wasn't so much that Democratic pranksters were doing illegal things but rather unethical things to sabotage Nixon's re-election.

I don't know for sure, though, and if you could provide examples of this it would be much appreciated.
My memory is not clear on it. After listen to that clip of Johnson's, I'm thinking that is the case. Someone probably told the republicans what the democrats were ding to sabotage the election, and their only recourse was illegal action to prove it.

That audio I linked does suggest ongoing sabotage by the democrats. It would make sense that the allegation of Nixon and Vietnam were false, to get Humphrey to use against Nixon. Looks like Humphrey was smart enough not to use unproved material.
 
Buck... In post 25, what I read in the first link is hearsay, so I didn't continue. Have any facts?
 
Buck... In post 25, what I read in the first link is hearsay, so I didn't continue. Have any facts?
Yeah here is a "fact";
Nixon was the most egocentric treasonous despot the office will ever see and you can not bring your self to see it 45 years later. You call yourself a "libertarian but you are too married to the republicon party to look at what leaders of your party have done in the name of political ambition.
Paris Peace Accords - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In previously released tapes from Johnson’s Presidency, we had heard about Johnson having substantial body of evidence showing Nixon had schemed to keep the South Vietnamese away from the negotiating table at the 1968 Paris peace talks. Like Nixon, Johnson had recored all of his conversations held inside the White House. Nixon was accused or dispatching Anna Chennault, a senior advisor, to convince the South Vietnamese they would get a better deal if they didn’t agree to a peace deal until after the U.S. Presidential election. Chennault confirmed she spoke with the Vietnamese in her autobiography, The Education of Anna, but nothing more than that. If true, the charge would likely amount to treason.

And it was true, as we already know from Robert Parry’s shop. (And by the way, the peace talks were much closer to success than the persons trying to minimize Nixon’s treason are willing to admit.)

Why did Johnson not act on the knowledge — publicly, at any rate? (He had already confronted Nixon on it privately.) Because it might have, among other things, damaged the nation’s security:

Johnson also passed along a note to Nixon’s opponent, Democrat Hubert Humphrey. The Democratic campaign found out just days before the election, though, and decided they were close enough in the polls to not release the information. A treason accusation could potentially damage the country’s security, they thought, before Humphrey lost a narrow election. Hindsight is 20/20, others say.

Even the TradMedia Almost Admits It Now: Nixon Sabotaged the Paris Peace Talks | MyFDL
If LBJ had revealed that the republican candidate was a self asorbed teasonous swine , he would also have to reveal how he learned of that fact. He would have to explain that he wire tapped the Vietnam Embassy and that he bugged Nixon's campaign headquarters. That is exactly why it took 45 years to learn of this.
 
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Through school I got the drive-by version of it, but I can't say I actually know all the specifics. What exactly happened? What was the timeline?

For those who were on earth then, what were your thoughts during that time?


To sum up, Tricky Dick and company were scared they'd lose the election and the Hippies would rule and Murica would sink into decadence and be overrun by the Godless Commies, so he got kinda desperate... and got G Gordon Liddy and some guys to do some spying, sneaking, and dirty deeds. Got caught. Hung his head. Resigned.


The main thing to know is that Watergate was the death-knell for "trusting our government and our leaders". It was a "watershed" moment... EVERYTHING was different afterward.
 
To sum up, Tricky Dick and company were scared they'd lose the election and the Hippies would rule and Murica would sink into decadence and be overrun by the Godless Commies, so he got kinda desperate... and got G Gordon Liddy and some guys to do some spying, sneaking, and dirty deeds. Got caught. Hung his head. Resigned.


The main thing to know is that Watergate was the death-knell for "trusting our government and our leaders". It was a "watershed" moment... EVERYTHING was different afterward.

Basically correct, particularly about how it helped changed americans views towards govt, but I have a quibble

Nixon had nothing to do with the plan to burglarize and spy on democratic campaign offices. His mistake was that after the burglars got caught, he had his supporters pay off the burglars in exchange for their silence.

This is why the whole notion of "the cover up is worse than the crime" got legs.
 
That's not proof buck. Wiki is only as accurate as the people contributing to it. The footnote leads to a book, and sounds like it is referring to the same audio I linked. That audio has Johnson accusing Nixon of that, but offers no evidence.
 
That's not proof buck. Wiki is only as accurate as the people contributing to it. The footnote leads to a book, and sounds like it is referring to the same audio I linked. That audio has Johnson accusing Nixon of that, but offers no evidence.
The other players in this historical debacle are not quite so tight lipped.
Some of you won't believe it unless we dig up Nixon, revive him and get him to confess.
I can't provide that but here is some pretty compelling evidence:

Republicans have long bristled at allegations that Richard Nixon’s 1968 presidential campaign helped sink Vietnam peace talks to win the election, but Nixon’s Asian counterparts – both in Saigon and Washington – have been much more open about the collaboration, what President Lyndon Johnson privately called “treason.”

In perhaps the most complete account from the South Vietnamese side – The Palace Fileby Nguyen Tien Hung and Jerrold L. Schecter – Hung recounts detailed interviews with his former boss, South Vietnam’s President Nguyen van Thieu, and with Nixon’s chief emissary to Thieu, China Lobby leader Anna Chennault.


President Lyndon Johnson meeting with South Vietnamese President Nguyen van Thieu on July 19,1968.
Both Thieu and Chennault described messages from Nixon’s campaign urging the South Vietnamese to boycott Johnson’s peace talks in the crucial days before the Nov. 5, 1968, election, according to The Palace File, published in 1986. Chennault made similar admissions in her own memoir, The Education of Anna, in 1980.

Upset by LBJ’s efforts to negotiate an end to the war with North Vietnam, Thieu followed the Republican advice and – just days before the election – balked at the Paris peace talks, thus denying Democrat Hubert Humphrey a last-minute boost that might have cost Nixon his narrow victory. Nixon then continued the war for four more years.

Another key figure in the 1968 dramga was South Vietnam’s Ambassador to the United States Bui Diem, who addressed the sabotage allegations in his own memoir, In the Jaws of History, published in 1987.

Bui Diem acknowledged many of the facts about his meetings with Republicans and his infamous cable to Saigon conveying the desire of “many Republican friends” that Thieu “stand firm” against Johnson’s pressure. But Bui Diem insisted there was nothing wrong in these contacts and communications.
Admissions on Nixon’s ‘Treason’ | Consortiumnews
 
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OK, I'll admit that wasn't their only recourse. They could have laid down, been honorable, and lost the election from not trying to stop the opposition from their improper acts...

No you think anyone who get elected to the presidency does so honorable, and legally?
 
Sorry Buck, even if Nixon consorted with them, it doesn't mean it was as said. I do know, living in that era, that Nixon wanted to have a solid victory in that war, and congress wouldn't fund a victor for him. That's why it's still divided. There may have been crap occurring on both sides, but i have a hard time believing Nixon "nixed" anything in '68. He could have said to them he has a better plan to win. He could have said anything else. Who knows, but I don't believe he played with peoples lives for an election. That's a line I cannot believe he would cross.

Please remember...

Johnson and the democrats started the US involvement to a war state...
 
Buick, I ask you to consider this.

If Nixon "nix'd" the '68 peace talks, then why did the process continue to have stalls for 3-1/2 years after he was elected? Isn't the idea that he wanted the chance to take credit as president?

Could it be that N. Vietnam didn't want peace...
 
Sorry Buck, even if Nixon consorted with them, it doesn't mean it was as said. I do know, living in that era, that Nixon wanted to have a solid victory in that war, and congress wouldn't fund a victor for him. That's why it's still divided. There may have been crap occurring on both sides, but i have a hard time believing Nixon "nixed" anything in '68. He could have said to them he has a better plan to win. He could have said anything else. Who knows, but I don't believe he played with peoples lives for an election. That's a line I cannot believe he would cross.

Please remember...

Johnson and the democrats started the US involvement to a war state...
You are unbelievable. Even if I did dig up Nixon and got him to confess to you personalty you would still say that the democrats were responsible for what he obviously did. The most compelling evidence could not compel you to agree that a fellow republican was morally bankrupt. Well the world now knows otherwise.
Thanks for the perspective on you stubborn refusal to acknowledge the obvious facts . Now I know where you come from for future reference.
Of course the Democrats were culpable for the first five years of the war. I was there . I remember. But Nixon was responsible for the last five . I know that... and now I know that there are still Nixon shills out there who can't stop defending him in spite of his newly revealed treachery.
 
Buick, I ask you to consider this.

If Nixon "nix'd" the '68 peace talks, then why did the process continue to have stalls for 3-1/2 years after he was elected? Isn't the idea that he wanted the chance to take credit as president?

Could it be that N. Vietnam didn't want peace...
Could it be that Nixon lied to all involved to achieve his own political ambition?
As soon as he got in he escalated the bombing and set out his "incursion , illegally ,carpet bombing Cambodia and Laos without approval of congress. He didn't need congress to "fund a victor" ... He waged his own private war without them and STILL LOST THE WAR!
Nixon lied to all involved to win the presidency and then wanted credit for the win of the war . He wanted to win a war that was un-winnable. He was a traitor and a despot and he is personally responsible for the waste of the lives of well over 20,000 Americans
That's what happened.
 
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That's a line I cannot believe he would cross.
That's what it comes down to isn't it?... Faith.
You worship at the church of Nixon and will never denounce your political savior.
The world knows what he was and he will be remembered as an immoral crook, a traitor whose personal political ambition knew no bounds of moral conscience, a lying despot and a criminal who resigned his office in unprecedented disgrace under immediate threat of criminal conviction and prison.
Yet you still defend him...
HA!
 
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That's what it comes down to isn't it?... Faith.
You worship at the church of Nixon and will never denounce your political savior.
The world knows what he was and he will be remembered as an immoral crook, a traitor whose personal political ambition knew no bounds of moral conscience, a lying despot and a criminal who resigned his office in unprecedented disgrace under immediate threat of criminal conviction and prison.
Yet you still defend him...
HA!

You know, I'm not sure that a far left outfit like consortiumnews, kept afloat by the Progressive Machine through George Soros and friends, is necessarily the definitive source for unbiased reflections on history.

Cling to it as you must, but understand opinions are not fact.
 
Buck, your revisionist history is appalling. The internet wasn't around back then and we only had three national channels of TV.

Nixon had several faults, and nearly all politicians have some pretty bad traits. What you are saying is just beyond what could happen.

he escalated the bombing and set out his "incursion , illegally ,carpet bombing Cambodia and Laos without approval of congress.

My God...

The war was already declared. The Commander in Chief doesn't have to run all military actions past congress. You clearly do not understand such events.
 
You know, I'm not sure that a far left outfit like consortiumnews, kept afloat by the Progressive Machine through George Soros and friends, is necessarily the definitive source for unbiased reflections on history.

Cling to it as you must, but understand opinions are not fact.
Did you bother to read the link? The evidence comes directly from the principal players involved in their own words!. It is not an opinion piece...it is a well researched report of the words of those involved
Republicon tactic 109; When all else fails and all evidence points to the truth against you ... attack the source.
FAIL!
LBJ -"this is treason"...
Everett Dirkson- "I Know"...
 
Buck, your revisionist history is appalling. The internet wasn't around back then and we only had three national channels of TV.

Nixon had several faults, and nearly all politicians have some pretty bad traits. What you are saying is just beyond what could happen.



My God...

The war was already declared. The Commander in Chief doesn't have to run all military actions past congress. You clearly do not understand such events.
You are not talking to some young kid here and you are the one with the historical revisionism
The Gulf of Tonkin resolution gave LBJ the authority to use military force within the boarders of Vietnam to help prosecute that side of the civil war with conventional military tactics. WAR WAS NEVER DECLARED ON NORTH VIETNAM OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY ...Specifically, the resolution authorized the President to do whatever necessary in order to assist "any member or protocol state of the Southeast Asia Collective Defense Treaty".
Laos and Cambodia were sovereign nations under separate governments and as such were not at war with the US IN ANY WAY. Nor were they members nations of The South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) Despite its name, SEATO mostly included countries located outside of the region but with an interest either in the region or the organization itself. They are: Australia, France, New Zealand, Pakistan (including East Pakistan, now Bangladesh), the Philippines, Thailand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Nixon by himself decided to carpet bomb two separate sovereign nations he had no authority to declare war on under the Tonkin Resolution or any other.
You can not defend that war and you can not defend Nixon... at least not with facts.
 
You are not talking to some young kid here and you are the one with the historical revisionism
The Gulf of Tonkin resolution gave LBJ the authority to use military force within the boarders of Vietnam to help prosecute that side of the civil war with conventional military tactics. WAR WAS NEVER DECLARED ON NORTH VIETNAM OR ANY OTHER COUNTRY ...Specifically, the resolution authorized the President to do whatever necessary in order to assist "any member or protocol state of the Southeast Asia Collective Defense Treaty".
Laos and Cambodia were sovereign nations under separate governments and as such were not at war with the US IN ANY WAY. Nor were they members nations of The South East Asia Treaty Organization (SEATO) Despite its name, SEATO mostly included countries located outside of the region but with an interest either in the region or the organization itself. They are: Australia, France, New Zealand, Pakistan (including East Pakistan, now Bangladesh), the Philippines, Thailand, the United Kingdom, and the United States. Nixon by himself decided to carpet bomb two separate sovereign nations he had no authority to declare war on under the Tonkin Resolution or any other.
You can not defend that war and you can not defend Nixon... at least not with facts.
I don't defend the war. I don't think we should have ever been there. However, once it was started, you don't just walk away from such things. If you are looking for ethics during war... Please tell me. What is ethical about war? Once started, and the election changed parties, it is congress that hampered Nixon from ending the war with victory. Traitors like GI Jane, and the liberal media didn't help any. Soldiers coming back with the public seeing them disgraceful, when only following orders... You want to blame someone? Blame the media and democrat majority in congress.

You want to speak of a resolution? I have a different take on the constitution referring to war anyway. At the time, it was the head of state who declares, creates letters of marque, etc. In section 8 of article 1:

The Congress shall have Power To...

To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water

I read this as allowing congress the power to do the same thing the any head of state is known to have throughout the world of the time. Please note, that nothing says it takes this power away from the president. Not everything that is common culture at the time is spelled out in the constitution. Even if you dismiss this idea, which most people do, Must I remind you again, that you cannot just walk away from such waring actions? once you start such a large scale operation, you cannot stop at borders if the enemy isn't.

I am amazed that you are so focused with the obvious hatred you have. I may or may not be right in this assumption, but I am assuming that you had some horrendous experience there you are obviously at least 5 years older than I, serving there. drafted I assume. Myself, I joined the Army, stayed 11 years. I left before 20 because when the cold war ended, my job was turned over to civilian contract. I could have stayed, but there were no options I like. I was an electronic technician working on communications equipment, and loved that job. My last posting was in the nuclear theater.

All my uncles served. My father was the only male member of my family from my mothers and father side that didn't serve, and that's because both his parents died and he became the Head of household for his younger siblings.

I have a deep respect for the military. I perceive that you do not. I think the military is over used, but that doesn't take away my respect for it.
 
The war was already declared. The Commander in Chief doesn't have to run all military actions past congress. You clearly do not understand such events.
Want to run that by again Planar? When was there a "declaration of war" on North Vietnam? When was war declared on Laos? When was war declared on Cambodia? Who made these imaginary "declarations"?
...And now Planar is re-writing the constitution to give the president the power to declare war HA ha ha ha.
If only Johnson had you as an adviser he wouldn't have needed to go to congress for the Tonkin resolution He could just use his "Planar dictatorial powers" to just start a war anywhere for any reason he wanted.

Want to clarify which one of us CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH EVENTS???:2wave:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!:lamo
Another low information, Nixon shill bites the dust.:lamo
Had we just "walked away" from Vietnam in 1968, instead of "walking away" in 1975, what would be different today?
I will tell you ... 20,000 plus Americans around my age would have lived and raised families and been happy productive citizens for the last 45 years. The Nixon legacy will forever be burdened by their useless deaths due to his treason.
That's what.
 
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Want to run that by again Planar? When was there a "declaration of war" on North Vietnam? When was war declared on Laos? When was war declared on Cambodia? Who made these imaginary "declarations"?
Want to clarify which one of us CLEARLY DOES NOT UNDERSTAND SUCH EVENTS???:2wave:
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!:lamo
Another low information, Nixon shill bites the dust.:lamo
Wow.

I explained my position.

I'm done with you.
 
Wow.

I explained my position.

I'm done with you.

don't run away
stand and fight; this is a debate site, after all
explain why what he has posted is not true
or is it that you are done because the facts are against you
if that is the case, then be honest about why you are leaving
 
don't run away
stand and fight; this is a debate site, after all
explain why what he has posted is not true
or is it that you are done because the facts are against you
if that is the case, then be honest about why you are leaving
Relax Bubba He has lost the debate... That's as close as he can come to admitting it. He has clarified who doesn't understand such events.
His lies, denials and revisionist history he clings to in order to defend his precious Nixon will work much of the time on many people he encounters here and elsewhere.
But not with this old Buck. I remember to much pain associated with that treasonous swine Nixon to let anything go.
Thanx for the support.



Now I guess I can revel in the feeling of a special Olympian...HA!
 
The great thing often missed in the whole Watergate event was the security guard's attention to deatil. He noticed a door ajar and closed it. On his next pass through he noticed it was open again so he called the cops and this all lead the the ruin of a president!!
 
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