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Health Care Question

Conservative said:
No answer to the question. Did you notice the govt. run Medicare costs in McAllen? How many times higher are those costs than the national average. Why are Medicare costs so high there? When you answer that question you will also have the answer to private insurance costs.

Whatever is the answer a liberal gives when challenged.

Let me know when you want to actually discuss solutions starting with those I gave you and why you believe that the govt. is the answer to lowering costs?
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The reasons for the disparity in H.C. spending between the two cities has provoked a national discussion about the causes of high H.C. spending. I guess you missed that one. Remember that Medicare just pays the tab so you should ask yourself why some docs order many more costly tests in some areas of the country than others. And in Texas you have to dismiss the notion that it is all about defensive medicine.
 
Cassandra said:
The reasons for the disparity in H.C. spending between the two cities has provoked a national discussion about the causes of high H.C. spending. I guess you missed that one. Remember that Medicare just pays the tab so you should ask yourself why some docs order many more costly tests in some areas of the country than others. And in Texas you have to dismiss the notion that it is all about defensive medicine.
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Doctors order needless tests because of malpractice lawsuits and in liberal areas the chances of getting sued are great. If you want to lower healthcare costs then identify all costs and then address those costs. There is no need for the massive Govt. program the House and Senate have passed. Obviously the majority in this country have rejected those bills and you have yet to explain how Scott Brown won in MA running on the anti Obamacare message.
 
Cassandra said:
The reasons for the disparity in H.C. spending between the two cities has provoked a national discussion about the causes of high H.C. spending. I guess you missed that one. Remember that Medicare just pays the tab so you should ask yourself why some docs order many more costly tests in some areas of the country than others. And in Texas you have to dismiss the notion that it is all about defensive medicine.
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Your outrage over private insurance companies is misguided and doesn't address the cost issue facing those companies. Who pays the malpractice settlements? Who pays for the legal fees? Who pays for those defensive medicine practices by doctors?

If Insurance companies are making an obscene profit then your definition of obscene is a lot different than mine.

CARPE DIEM: Profit Margin: Health Insurance Industry Ranks #86
 
Conservative said:
Your outrage over private insurance companies is misguided and doesn't address the cost issue facing those companies. Who pays the malpractice settlements? Who pays for the legal fees? Who pays for those defensive medicine practices by doctors?

If Insurance companies are making an obscene profit then your definition of obscene is a lot different than mine.

CARPE DIEM: Profit Margin: Health Insurance Industry Ranks #86
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Do you actually read other people's posts? I have said repeatedly that the problem with private insurance is the legal structure within which they operate. Insurance companies are not people they are corporations. I am no more outraged with insurance companies than I am outraged by my refrigerator. ! Change the built-in incentives and you change the business model by which insurance companies conduct business. Make cherry picking and recission illegal, make sure everyone is "in" the system , take the anti-trust exemption away and insurers will compete by trying to encourage their enrollees to be healthier.

But beyond the insurance business model is H.C. spending and that is where the El Paso/ McAllen comparison is instructive.
 
Cassandra said:
Do you actually read other people's posts? I have said repeatedly that the problem with private insurance is the legal structure within which they operate. Insurance companies are not people they are corporations. I am no more outraged with insurance companies than I am outraged by my refrigerator. ! Change the built-in incentives and you change the business model by which insurance companies conduct business. Make cherry picking and recission illegal, make sure everyone is "in" the system , take the anti-trust exemption away and insurers will compete by trying to encourage their enrollees to be healthier.

But beyond the insurance business model is H.C. spending and that is where the El Paso/ McAllen comparison is instructive.
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Unfortunately I do read your posts but apparently you simply type but don't pay any attention to what you type.

You claimed that the healthcare bill in Congress was flawed but was better than nothing yet you have never backed up that statement. You called for the passing of a flawed bill. Why pass a flawed bill that goes into effect in 4 years when you can take the time to get it right.

So insurance corporations are not people? Where do you get this stuff? People are employed in the insurance, pay taxes, live in communities, and millions are invested in Insurance Companies hoping to get a supplement to my retirement income. Quit attacking corporations and realize that like you they are in business to make money and to pay investors. Based upon the chart I sent you not doing a very good job of it.

My point all along has been that you cannot address the costs of insurance premiums without defining all the costs that are being paid. Congress ignores all the costs to focus on demonizing private business. Many of the costs in insurance is due to govt. regulations or the govt. not allowing a level playing field.

You can allow portability, prevent recissions, and eliminate pre-existing conditiions without implementing either of the massive govt. mandated programs. There is no justification for supporting a flawed bill simply because you perceive it to be better than nothing. The misinformation and lack of logic is staggering when it comes to these bills. Aside from probably being unconstitutional it is logically flawed to believe that govt. run anything is effecient.
 
Hopefully we will get nothing

Dem health care talks collapsing - Patrick O'Connor and Carrie Budoff Brown - POLITICO.com


Health care reform teetered on the brink of collapse Thursday as House and Senate leaders struggled to coalesce around a strategy to rescue the plan, in the face of growing pessimism among lawmakers that the president’s top priority can survive.

The legislative landscape was filled with obstacles: House Democrats won’t pass the Senate bill. Senate Democrats don’t want to start from scratch just to appease the House. And the White House still isn’t telling Congress how to fix the problem.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) both tried to put a good face on the obvious chaos on Thursday, promising to press on.

“We have to get a bill passed,” Pelosi told reporters. “We know that.”

Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus (D-Mont.) said, “No way is it dead, because it’s so important for the country. And we will find a way to pass [it].”

But for the first time in the yearlong push, Democratic aides — and even some members — finally acknowledged privately that the fear of failure was real. And Congress recessed for the weekend without an obvious path forward as rank-and-file Democrats started splintering in different directions.
 
Conservative said:
Doctors order needless tests because of malpractice lawsuits and in liberal areas the chances of getting sued are great.
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Oh my god. Talk about pulling stuff out of your ass.

Do you have any actual evidence that lawsuits occur more frequently in "liberal areas?"
 
Conservative said:
Yes, sure do, McAllen TX
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That's not evidence, that's one town out of hundreds of thousands, and you haven't proven that there are more lawsuits or that it is liberal.

You offer nothing but your baseless opinions based on preconceived notions.
 
misterman said:
That's not evidence, that's one town out of hundreds of thousands, and you haven't proven that there are more lawsuits or that it is liberal.

You offer nothing but your baseless opinions based on preconceived notions.
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You are right, but that is what Cassandra raised. I have no interest in proving anything to you, the election maps prove that but instead of doing your own research you expect me to do it for you. Buy it or don't doesn't matter to me.

TX is a very pro business state and I have excellent insurance. You want better insurance raise the issue with your state and stop expecting the National taxpayer to pay for your healthcare.
 
Cassandra said:
Do you actually read other people's posts? I have said repeatedly that the problem with private insurance is the legal structure within which they operate. Insurance companies are not people they are corporations. I am no more outraged with insurance companies than I am outraged by my refrigerator. ! Change the built-in incentives and you change the business model by which insurance companies conduct business. Make cherry picking and recission illegal, make sure everyone is "in" the system , take the anti-trust exemption away and insurers will compete by trying to encourage their enrollees to be healthier.

But beyond the insurance business model is H.C. spending and that is where the El Paso/ McAllen comparison is instructive.
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This says it all

YouTube - The Day ObamaCare Died - Sung by Barack Obama.avi
 
misterman said:
Oh my god. Talk about pulling stuff out of your ass.

Do you have any actual evidence that lawsuits occur more frequently in "liberal areas?"
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Conservative said:
Yes, sure do, McAllen TX
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Misterman is right. You are just pulling crap out of your ass:

“It’s malpractice,” a family physician who had practiced here for thirty-three years said.

“McAllen is legal hell,” the cardiologist agreed. Doctors order unnecessary tests just to protect themselves, he said. Everyone thought the lawyers here were worse than elsewhere.

That explanation puzzled me. Several years ago, Texas passed a tough malpractice law that capped pain-and-suffering awards at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Didn’t lawsuits go down?

“Practically to zero,” the cardiologist admitted.
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McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker

In other words, McAllen TX has arguably fewer malpractice suits than anywhere else in the state, if not the country, and yet they still have the highest healthcare costs in the nation.

Even the doctors in McAllen contradict you.

If you're going to spout on a subject, Conservative, you might want to know a little something about what you're talking about, instead of just making **** up.
 
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NiteGuy said:
Originally Posted by misterman
Oh my god. Talk about pulling stuff out of your ass.

Do you have any actual evidence that lawsuits occur more frequently in "liberal areas?"
Originally Posted by misterman
Oh my god. Talk about pulling stuff out of your ass.

Do you have any actual evidence that lawsuits occur more frequently in "liberal areas?"




Misterman is right. You are just pulling crap out of your ass:

“It’s malpractice,” a family physician who had practiced here for thirty-three years said.

“McAllen is legal hell,” the cardiologist agreed. Doctors order unnecessary tests just to protect themselves, he said. Everyone thought the lawyers here were worse than elsewhere.

That explanation puzzled me. Several years ago, Texas passed a tough malpractice law that capped pain-and-suffering awards at two hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Didn’t lawsuits go down?

“Practically to zero,” the cardiologist admitted.
McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker

In other words, McAllen TX has arguably fewer malpractice suits than anywhere else in the state, if not the country, and yet they still have the highest healthcare costs in the nation.

If you're going to spout on a subject, Conservative, you might want to know a little something about what you're talking about, instead of just making **** up.
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Nite, you don't get it and probably never will. Texans believe that healthcare is a personal responsibility that is best handled locally and you have provided nothing to refute that. All the numbers in the world don't mean a thing here. Maybe we should be as screwed up as the rest of the country with high budget deficits and high taxes. Why don't you figure out how to take care of your own problems instead of spreading your misery equally to everyone else.
 
Conservative said:
Nite, you don't get it and probably never will. Texans believe that healthcare is a personal responsibility that is best handled locally and you have provided nothing to refute that. All the numbers in the world don't mean a thing here. Maybe we should be as screwed up as the rest of the country with high budget deficits and high taxes. Why don't you figure out how to take care of your own problems instead of spreading your misery equally to everyone else.
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You talk, and never back up what you say with anything grounded in reality. You expect everyone to just accept what you say because you say it.

Sorry, life doesn't work that way.
 
misterman said:
You talk, and never back up what you say with anything grounded in reality. You expect everyone to just accept what you say because you say it.

Sorry, life doesn't work that way.
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misterman, you don't get it either, I really don't care what you believe or don't believe or whether you accept what I tell you or not. It really is too bad that all these hicks in TX don't have people like you around telling us how to make things better for us.
 
Conservative said:
misterman, you don't get it either, I really don't care what you believe or don't believe or whether you accept what I tell you or not. It really is too bad that all these hicks in TX don't have people like you around telling us how to make things better for us.
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Of course you don't care what anyone else thinks. You're not here to debate or discuss, you're here to rant. That' s obvious. Even when presented with undeniable evidence that you are wrong, you persist.

Talk talk talk. No substance, no evidence, no point.
 
misterman said:
Of course you don't care what anyone else thinks. You're not here to debate or discuss, you're here to rant. That' s obvious. Even when presented with undeniable evidence that you are wrong, you persist.

Talk talk talk. No substance, no evidence, no point.
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I have learned a lot from you over the past month or so. I am doing exactly what you do with almost every post.
 
Conservative said:
I have learned a lot from you over the past month or so. I am doing exactly what you do with almost every post.
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Sure you are.

For instance, I posted detailed evidence proving that there was a surplus in FY2000. You simply repeated your empty denials.

You haven't learned much.
 
NiteGuy said:
Misterman is right. You are just pulling crap out of your ass:


McAllen, Texas and the high cost of health care : The New Yorker

In other words, McAllen TX has arguably fewer malpractice suits than anywhere else in the state, if not the country, and yet they still have the highest healthcare costs in the nation.

Even the doctors in McAllen contradict you.

If you're going to spout on a subject, Conservative, you might want to know a little something about what you're talking about, instead of just making **** up.
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Did you read the entire New Yorker Article regarding McAllen TX? Why would you try and equate what is going on in McAllen TX and broad brush that to the entire state of TX?

McAllen TX is one of the most liberal parts of the State but the article really doesn't come up with the reason for the higher costs there. Tort reform took place in the 90's and was amended again in 2003, and there has been a boost in the number of doctors in the state. TX however is huge geographically and in population. Numbers really do not mean a lot but what does matter is how the people of the state vote and act. your concerns apparently are unfounded based upon how the state votes and the total independence of the TX citizen.
 
misterman said:
Sure you are.

For instance, I posted detailed evidence proving that there was a surplus in FY2000. You simply repeated your empty denials.

You haven't learned much.
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And I posted the actual Treasury numbers showing that SS was used to show the surplus that Clinton took credit for.
 
Conservative said:
And I posted the actual Treasury numbers showing that SS was used to show the surplus that Clinton took credit for.
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And I posted the actual numbers that showed you are wrong, including your reading of your own data, because you don't understand it.

But no, we're not going through this again.
 
misterman said:
And I posted the actual numbers that showed you are wrong, including your reading of your own data, because you don't understand it.

But no, we're not going through this again.
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Wrong, what was the budget surplus that Clinton took credit for?
 
Conservative said:
Wrong, what was the budget surplus that Clinton took credit for?
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We're not going through this again. I've proven quite soundly my point. If someone else asks, I'm happy to explain it again, but there is no point with you. You only believe what you want.
 
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