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Just got my 2017 health care premium...

:roll: You're obviously going to believe whatever you want about me no matter what I actually say, so you have a nice Halloween.

I'm sorry you take my posts as some kind of attack on you and your dislike of Obamacare. I think we're talking across each other. Maybe next time...
 
I'm sorry you take my posts as some kind of attack on you and your dislike of Obamacare. I think we're talking across each other. Maybe next time...

No, Maggie; you're just not reading what I'm saying, and you're reading things into it.
 
Classic liberal/socialist progressive response.

You wrote: "using a non ACA premium increase to demonize the ACA is whack"

I provided facts from the ACA in the same market.

Going to run from that?


nothing to run from except your pretend reality
 
Yep, loooong before Obama my rates went up 10-25% every single year. And pretty much every single year my employer changed Health Insurance provider, because they were always looking for the cheapest provider.

But now everything is Obama's fault. Anytime someone premiums go up anywhere, it's automatically because of ACA. Instead of everyone getting together and trying to fix it, the GOP uses it for political points, every single time.

The system is broke. When everyone from top to bottom is looking to make maximum profits, then of course the system is going to be expensive.

Unless something is done in DC, with or without ACA the Middle Class will be priced out of Health Insurance all together. But I don't expect DC to do anything. They all have good coverage, and the GOP loves to keep using ACA for political points. So if they try to fix it, there goes a bogeyman. They can't have that.

Exactly, double digit health insurance increases year in and year out is nothing new. It's mind blowing to me what premiums and coverage have done since I entered the workforce almost 3 decades ago. The ACA didn't fix the underlying problem and may have actually exacerbated it a bit, but our healthcare system has been a disaster as far as containing costs are concerned forever.
 
Exactly, double digit health insurance increases year in and year out is nothing new. It's mind blowing to me what premiums and coverage have done since I entered the workforce almost 3 decades ago. The ACA didn't fix the underlying problem and may have actually exacerbated it a bit, but our healthcare system has been a disaster as far as containing costs are concerned forever.

And that is the point. The sales pitch was a fraud from the beginning. Since Obamacare, my premium has doubled and my deductible has tripled, I have not kept my plan, I have not kept my doctor and I didn't see a $2500 annual savings.
 
The increase in premiums is by design. The ACA was never an end-game. Surely no one actually believes it was meant to be the 'solution'. The ACA was meant to be a gateway to Universal Health Care.
 
When people criticize Obamacare, they typically just look at the PRICE of THEIR monthly premium, which I think if obviously myopic and incomplete.

About 15 million americans have health insurance that would not have it without obamacare. People want health insurance so when they get really sick and treatments are available that can save their lives (let's say for at least 3 - 5 years, I mean we all die eventually), that they can access those treatments. Lives are being saved, and in some cases dramatically improved if not saved. If you want to look at the impact of obamacare, look at the plusses as well as the costs. For those that are conservative and pro-life, what is the value of those saved lives?

Also driving obamacare cost is new drugs priced at exorbitant prices, like Harvoni for hepatitis C, recently $84,000 for the cure in the US, and $1,000 in Eqypt and $900 in India. Why does congress allow this absurd pricing, and put the vast majority of cost on the US, when clearly Gilead can make money at $900 for the cure in India; they are not taking the business at a loss. My theory is that the congress has been bought by the big pharma lobby, and the repub controlled house and senate want to keep the price high so Gilead will have the money to pay for their next election campaign, which is why the incumbents stay in office.

Check out the 10 most expensive drugs in the US, NOTE Cuprimine went up 400% in 2015 alone from $8,000 to $40,000, abuse of the patent system. 10 Most Popular Prescriptions - GoodRx

When abuse of the patent system is breaking the nation, sucking all the money out of individuals pocketbooks for insurance premiums, and out of the federal budget for medicare (which is prevented by the republican bill in 2003 for medicare part D, to negotiate drug prices for medicare), a legislative remedy is required. Yet none has been discussed, as though the medicare modernization act of is ok. Premiums only cover 13% of the cost of medicare part D, throwing $50 billion a year on our national deficit, yet nobody talks about it. It was not paid for in any way, i.e. other spending cuts or tax increases. The private medicare supplement plans in theory can negotiate drug prices for "their plan", but they have all done a poor job compared to the govt. bureaucrats in Canada, England, Egypt, and India, all of which pay substantially less for prescription drugs than we do in the US. If we fix this, medicare, medicaid, and obamacare costs would all come down significantly.

That does not begin to address the fraud and waste in the system. People are placed on hospice care and medicare is billed for items these people do not use. Hospice requests a fancy new wheelchair because medicare will pay for it, when the old wheelchair is the one that is still used. I have seen this in my family. Or oxygen equipment that was needed after pneumonia, but is no longer needed and you can't get the supplier to come pick it up because they say, "oh we'll be over but don't worry medicare is paying for it". Congress could improve this, but apparently they don't want to fix it. They could set up private medicare cost recovery companies you could call when you see abuse you cannot stop and they could suspend the provider or get a rebate from the provider, and keep 10% of whatever they recover. You'd see costs drop significantly. This is not rocket science.
 
Never mind what I just wrote. I can see you are part of the problem and is in no way interested in a solution.

Ok, what do you disagree with in the quote? Or do you simply find it distasteful to denigrate a philosophy?

Concerning the Liberal philosophy, it's noble to want everyone to be healthy and happy, which I believe is how many Liberal programs start. Where Liberalism goes wrong is believing that people deserve to have someone else pay for their health, food, housing, education, etc..., and if the person doesn't pay then they can go to jail. The United States was a lean, tough country with awesome character up until Hoover with very little government intervention. People weren't starving to death, but they did work very hard at times just for cheap food and clothing. Back then, a poor person was skinny with patches and sewn holes in their clothes. Now the image of a person on welfare is often a fat person in a trailer with a big screen t.v.. It's not compassion, it's enabling. That's why when the Democrats first tried to sell Obamacare, you had to say ridiculous things like "We have to pass the bill so you can find out what's in it" (Pelosi), instead of saying, "Hey, the War on Poverty worked out great, look at Detroit!"....of course you can't say that because it's been a dismal failure. You can't hold up any of your programs, you can only throw race/sex cards and use smoke and mirrors.
 
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Anthem Blue Cross Bronze plan with a $6500 deductible for one adult and two kids:

2016 premium: $807.37

2017 premium: $1004.90

Thanks Obama.

My Social Security is going up 0.03% so divide 25% increase in my medical by 0.03% and he answer is 833.3%. Thanks Oblabla.
 
When people criticize Obamacare, they typically just look at the PRICE of THEIR monthly premium, which I think if obviously myopic and incomplete.

About 15 million americans have health insurance that would not have it without obamacare. People want health insurance so when they get really sick and treatments are available that can save their lives (let's say for at least 3 - 5 years, I mean we all die eventually), that they can access those treatments. Lives are being saved, and in some cases dramatically improved if not saved. If you want to look at the impact of obamacare, look at the plusses as well as the costs. For those that are conservative and pro-life, what is the value of those saved lives?

Also driving obamacare cost is new drugs priced at exorbitant prices, like Harvoni for hepatitis C, recently $84,000 for the cure in the US, and $1,000 in Eqypt and $900 in India. Why does congress allow this absurd pricing, and put the vast majority of cost on the US, when clearly Gilead can make money at $900 for the cure in India; they are not taking the business at a loss. My theory is that the congress has been bought by the big pharma lobby, and the repub controlled house and senate want to keep the price high so Gilead will have the money to pay for their next election campaign, which is why the incumbents stay in office.

Check out the 10 most expensive drugs in the US, NOTE Cuprimine went up 400% in 2015 alone from $8,000 to $40,000, abuse of the patent system. 10 Most Popular Prescriptions - GoodRx

When abuse of the patent system is breaking the nation, sucking all the money out of individuals pocketbooks for insurance premiums, and out of the federal budget for medicare (which is prevented by the republican bill in 2003 for medicare part D, to negotiate drug prices for medicare), a legislative remedy is required. Yet none has been discussed, as though the medicare modernization act of is ok. Premiums only cover 13% of the cost of medicare part D, throwing $50 billion a year on our national deficit, yet nobody talks about it. It was not paid for in any way, i.e. other spending cuts or tax increases. The private medicare supplement plans in theory can negotiate drug prices for "their plan", but they have all done a poor job compared to the govt. bureaucrats in Canada, England, Egypt, and India, all of which pay substantially less for prescription drugs than we do in the US. If we fix this, medicare, medicaid, and obamacare costs would all come down significantly.

That does not begin to address the fraud and waste in the system. People are placed on hospice care and medicare is billed for items these people do not use. Hospice requests a fancy new wheelchair because medicare will pay for it, when the old wheelchair is the one that is still used. I have seen this in my family. Or oxygen equipment that was needed after pneumonia, but is no longer needed and you can't get the supplier to come pick it up because they say, "oh we'll be over but don't worry medicare is paying for it". Congress could improve this, but apparently they don't want to fix it. They could set up private medicare cost recovery companies you could call when you see abuse you cannot stop and they could suspend the provider or get a rebate from the provider, and keep 10% of whatever they recover. You'd see costs drop significantly. This is not rocket science.

Are you done? Now print that out and stick it on the doors of Americans struggling to keep the lights on.
 
My family's premium has more than doubled since the ACA went into effect. My mom recently had her physician dropped from their network as well.

"You can keep your insurance and keep your doctor." Ha, what a failure of legislation. I sincerely hope it's repealed and replaced.
 
the ACA was one of the biggest missed opportunities since Truman's plan was rejected.

I am glad it would have been a whole lot worse.
it has done enough damage the way that it is.
 
There are no non-PPACA premiums - it is illegal to sell a non-PPACA compliant policy.

The ACA supporters have to read it to know what's in side: here we are nearly six years later and they still haven't read it.
 
Good point . My father pays Medicare $104.00 a month and it covers 80%. Private insurers wants more than that to cover the other 20%, but according to the GOP the private sector can do better.

Needless to say he is still looking for one in the private sector. :sarcasticclap
That's not quite correct. Anyone who agrees to accept medicare agrees to accept a medicare determined rate. Medicare then pays 80% of that determined rate. So Medicare may be able to negotiate a 3k bill down to 1k and then pay 80% of that 1k. That's why so many doctors don't want to accept medicare anymore. The negotiated rates are too low.
 
The ACA supporters have to read it to know what's in side: here we are nearly six years later and they still haven't read it.

It is based on income redistribution, Obama and Hillary like it, it makes many republicants go crazy, it added a new federal power and it has both "affordable" and "protection" in the title - so it must be good. ;)
 
You just said you've been self-employed all of your life.

My post was about taking the leap from being EMPLOYED -- and having employer-covered health insurance -- to being self-employed, NOW, and having to cover yourself, versus 10 years ago when I took that leap.

My post was NOT unclear, Maggie. If you're going to snipe, please make sure you own house is in order.
There is nothing wrong with what Maggie said. Many people underestimate the employer contribution to employer sponsored care and ignore that fact that employer coverage is also a group plan. Becoming self-employed has always been daunting and isn't some new phenomenon. There are plenty of problems with the ACA but making the switch from employer covered insurance to self covered more daunting is not one such problem.
 
still waiting on my 2,500 premium reduction that was promised. I am sure a lot of other people
are wondering the same thing. ACA the biggest lie ever told.

The biggest lie ever told is "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you.

ACA is simply a subset of that lie.
 
That's not quite correct. Anyone who agrees to accept medicare agrees to accept a medicare determined rate. Medicare then pays 80% of that determined rate. So Medicare may be able to negotiate a 3k bill down to 1k and then pay 80% of that 1k. That's why so many doctors don't want to accept medicare anymore. The negotiated rates are too low.
Either that or the rates are too high, I guess. It's quite correct to my father. Now all we have to do is find a private sector one that can be cheaper with the 20%
 
Are you done? Now print that out and stick it on the doors of Americans struggling to keep the lights on.

Do you have a specific problem with what I said? Are you pro-life? What is wrong with spending govt. money to provide health ins. to more people and help save their lives?

Do you think it is ok for americans to pay $75,000 for sovaldi when it is sold profitably in india for $900?

Do you think there is no waste and fraud in medicare, or if there is that we can't do anything about it?

Do you think our republican house and senate have operated effectively since 2010? What have they done to try and reign in medicare costs?
 
When people criticize Obamacare, they typically just look at the PRICE of THEIR monthly premium, which I think if obviously myopic and incomplete.
Yes, because that is ONLY relevant means by which to judge it. Let me explain something to you my altruist/collectivist friend: My primary obligation in this world is to myself and to my family. This recent increase just made that task that much more difficult. I now have $200 less per month to spend on my families needs. Tell me, what would you like me to cut back on each month so that you and Obama can pat yourselves on the back for devising a scheme whereby I am forced to pay for someone elses care? If you think this is such a great program, you wont mind cutting me a check for $200 per month now will you. So stop being so selfish, stop thinking about only yourself, put your money where your mouth is and start cutting me checks.
 
I had insurance before Obamacare. It might surprise y'all to find out that large increase in the cost of health insurance was around long before Obamacare.

Difference was at least when I had a high deductible plan, everything was covered after the deductible A, B my deductible on a catastrophic plan was $5000. You used to pick one up for less than $200 a month. Now you cant find one as they are not ACA approved. 12000 year for any health insurance is ****ing ridiculous. Hell 12000 a year for prepaid medical care is ****ing ridiculous without a deductible with a 6000 grand deductible its crazy stupid.
 
Difference was at least when I had a high deductible plan, everything was covered after the deductible A, B my deductible on a catastrophic plan was $5000. You used to pick one up for less than $200 a month. Now you cant find one as they are not ACA approved. 12000 year for any health insurance is ****ing ridiculous. Hell 12000 a year for prepaid medical care is ****ing ridiculous without a deductible with a 6000 grand deductible its crazy stupid.

That is what these people don't understand. Your co-pays do not count toward your deductible.
so not only are you spending 1000+ a month you also have a 6k deductible to hit.

I am lucky this year. this is the first year since the ACA went in that I did not get a price increase in my insurance.
Actually I get a bit of a break because the company changed the salary requirements on the payments.

my family deductible is only 3k, but the out of pocket maximum is 12k I do believe.
 
Except for one very important thing. That is that, no matter one's health? They can enroll and get insurance. Before this, a simple thing such as high blood pressure, even though controlled, would make one ineligible. People getting their insurance from their employer never had that problem, but the self-employed ended up getting screwed. The result of that was that people couldn't afford to LEAVE their jobs to START new businesses.

They still cant. Not at the coverage options and the prices. Except that was never really a problem before. Catastrophic premiums were always low, and the policies easy to get because there was a high deductible. If you had minor problems you would take care of them yourself either through a Medical Savings Account or just yourself. The plans I had covered 100% after the deductible up to 5,000,000 over the life of the policy and they were cheap for a family. The premiums were low enough that the interest from the account covered the annual premium as I kept continually adding the deductible to the account over the years. You cant come close to the plan I had before, because the insurance doesn't exist anymore.
 
That is what these people don't understand. Your co-pays do not count toward your deductible.
so not only are you spending 1000+ a month you also have a 6k deductible to hit.

I am lucky this year. this is the first year since the ACA went in that I did not get a price increase in my insurance.
Actually I get a bit of a break because the company changed the salary requirements on the payments.

my family deductible is only 3k, but the out of pocket maximum is 12k I do believe.


I had a I high deductible plan for a family with 10000 deductible for the WHOLE family that paid 100%. Does your cover 100%, because most plans I have seen, not only have ridiculous deductibles for the price but don't cover jack ****, like 80% or some such.
 
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