Death rate has increased for white Americans - Why?

jaeger19 said:

it would be a terrible guess.. because its wrong.

Our death rate is higher due to increasing levels of stress from job insecurity.. longer working hours, longer working, sedentary lifestyles, increases in obesity, etc,

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OK. Prove that.

"Stress" is responsible for a short-term spike in very narrow demographic groups' death rates?

Somerville said:

Why then are death rates for middle-aged black and Hispanic Americans continuing to decrease? Some might think that growing equality in our society is negatively affecting those who were once privileged. Now, some feel that equality is oppression.

A lack of proper health care must also be seen as part of the problem.

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Actually hypertension death rates increased for black and Hispanic americans from 2000 to 2005. Since then it declined for black americans and fluctuated for Hispanics. When you see it graphed, you realize that the changes probably are not statistically significant (in other words.. simply normal variation). The rate for black americans and Hispanics is however significantly higher than non Hispanic whites.

Now when you look at the non Hispanic white death rate from hypertension.. it goes up rather steadily and this probably is significant.

Most likely this is due to increase in stressors and lifestyle changes among non Hispanic whites.

Access in the healthcare is likely not a factor as the access to healthcare increased for all groups. and the decrease in black hypertension death rates started before the advent of the ACA.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/databriefs/db193.pdf

Kobie said:

OK. Prove that.

"Stress" is responsible for a short-term spike in very narrow demographic groups' death rates?

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Sure:

According to the study, conducted by Carolyn Aldwin of Oregon State University, individuals who tend to live a more stressful life have a 50% higher chance of dying.Published in the Journal of Aging Research, the study followed 1,000 men, all of whom were in good health and were among the working middle class, over an 18-year period, from 1985 to 2003. The study yielded fairly surprising results. Namely, the rate of mortality of the three groups was not linear. Instead, it seems that experiencing anything more than two stressful events per year is harmful. Individuals in both the moderate and high risk groups had a much higher mortality rate than individuals in the low risk group. Long-term stress may impact how long someone lives much more than scientists first believed. Even moderate stress can have a critical effect over the long term, causing health issues and eventually leading to an earlier death. The threshold seems to be two stress events per year, with the human body unable to cope with more, at least not for very long. Stress has long been recognized as problematic to one's health and well-being, and a source of disease, but this study makes it a much higher priority.

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Whats interesting is the two stress events per year...

Say like being foreclosed on and losing your house.. and losing your job? Something that was fairly common among that age group during the last 8-9 years.

Somerville said:

Problem with this statement is the definition of "older". Not just white males but the demographic of all Americans over the age of 65. during the period which the study examined, showed decreasing mortality rates as compared to earlier years. It is the millenials and Gen Xers who are dying at greater rates than earlier periods.

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Honestly I think it has to do with coping methods.
the fact is those generations that you mention might as well be deemed the "I want it my way" crowd.

they honestly don't know how to handle stress and other issues that life throws at them.

I am attempting to stop that with my kids. they don't get everything they want. they
work for what they do get.

The little Johnny just has to have it I think has not helped the situation.
the fact is parents didn't prep their kids for the stress of life.

anymore most kids don't get it till their are 30 of ol yea that is how things are supposed to work
by then it is to late.

Somerville said:

Reads like an argument for expanding Social Security and for a single-payer health care system - You know; like in those other nations where mortality rates are decreasing

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Can you explain exactly how expanding SS and implementing a single payer system would impact those issues? Of job security? Of people being unhappy? Considering the epic failure that is Obamacare, what would happen if our ever capable federal government was in charge of care for all people? Jesus.

jaeger19 said:

Sure:



Whats interesting is the two stress events per year...

Say like being foreclosed on and losing your house.. and losing your job? Something that was fairly common among that age group during the last 8-9 years.

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Add in some further financial complications from muscular/skeletal or cancer conditions, toss in the realizations that you are not going to regain much of the egg that has been scrambled........good times!

kamikaze483 said:

Can you explain exactly how expanding SS and implementing a single payer system would impact those issues? ...

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Oh, you mean like...surviving?

Gimmesometruth said:

Oh, you mean like...surviving?

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First of all, that abstract was talking about "external cause" mortality among white Americans who have a much higher rate of insurance than the national average. I'm not sure there would be any impact from the things that you mentioned.

kamikaze483 said:

First of all, that abstract was talking about "external cause" mortality among white Americans who have a much higher rate of insurance than the national average. I'm not sure there would be any impact from the things that you mentioned.

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If you want to argue that the group in the research, who had substituted Rx opioids for heroin and OD'ed, were receiving coverage at "high rates", fine, you believe that. What happens often when you have high levels of economic setbacks is to economize, and that often entails not paying for your HI.

Everyone has ignored a major factor up to this point.

The study specifically mentions "less-educated" white Americans. In other words, the famous "poor white trash."

Is it really any surprise that alcoholism, drug use, and depression/suicide are more common among any group who is no longer employable?

Gimmesometruth said:

If you want to argue that the group in the research, who had substituted Rx opioids for heroin and OD'ed, were receiving coverage at "high rates", fine, you believe that. What happens often when you have high levels of economic setbacks is to economize, and that often entails not paying for your HI.

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Maybe we aren't on the same page- are you arguing that drug addicts OD'd as a result of having no health insurance?

kamikaze483 said:

Maybe we aren't on the same page- are you arguing that drug addicts OD'd as a result of having no health insurance?

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You are not on the same page...or...paper. The research is dealing with non-college whites 45-55 who have seen increases in mortality driven by....wait for it...."poisonings", ie, alcholism, od's, ect:

Self-reported declines in health, mental health, and ability
to conduct activities of daily living, and increases in chronic pain and
inability to work, as well as clinically measured deteriorations in liver
function, all point to growing distress in this population.

I don't believe that this segment was carrying HI at "higher levels", and it makes sense that if they were experiencing mental and physical health issues to the point of suicide, they probably did not have a "higher level" of access to alleviate those issues.

I suggest you go back and read through the thread, read the links provided....and then form a response.

kamikaze483 said:

Can you explain exactly how expanding SS and implementing a single payer system would impact those issues? Of job security? Of people being unhappy? Considering the epic failure that is Obamacare, what would happen if our ever capable federal government was in charge of care for all people? Jesus.

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single payer healthcare would allow entrepreneurial types to start a business without worrying about the added costs of individual health insurance.

Obamacare is in no way an "epic failure" despite what some believe. The biggest problem for those who oppose it, the ACA, they are opposing capitalism, it is the mega-insurance companies which determine rates - not the government.

A topic to think about: America's conservatives always yammer on and on about the inefficiencies of government run programs, the failures of the federal govt, etc etc. Why then are medical costs lower in those countries where there is government-run healthcare, why are the kids doing better in standardised testing against American kids in those countries with national government controlled education -- do those Americans who work for the federal government have lower than average IQs?

Such thinking couldn't possibly be a result of years of propaganda from those who like what they have and don't really care if other Americans can do as well. Many other nations have better economic mobility than present day America - Why?

divorce

poor health overall

lack of exercise

poor diet

too many big macs, and not enough salads

too many on their own again, and mid 40's is that area where you either start "making it" in your career, or you go downhill

there are thousands of reasons....

and they all contribute

Somerville said:

A topic to think about: America's conservatives always yammer on and on about the inefficiencies of government run programs, the failures of the federal govt, etc etc. Why then are medical costs lower in those countries where there is government-run healthcare, why are the kids doing better in standardised testing against American kids in those countries with national government controlled education -- do those Americans who work for the federal government have lower than average IQs?

Such thinking couldn't possibly be a result of years of propaganda from those who like what they have and don't really care if other Americans can do as well. Many other nations have better economic mobility than present day America - Why?

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Medical costs are lower in government run healthcare countries for a variety of reaons.

1. Many of their costs are shifted from medical care to other areas of their government. for example.. they do pay less in healthcare.. but they ALSO provide education for physicians at government expense.. so it appears that they are cheaper, when actually they have just pushed their costs to a different area. They also shift costs by having a malpractice system, they shift cost by having a larger safety net for retirees etc. In America, our retirement age is about what 67 or some..and increasing. So people are not on social security/government retirement until then. However, that means that healthcare costs will increase as well. 10 more years working on cement is hard on the knees, back etc.

In many countries with universal systems,, they shift costs.. so they pay for you to retire at say 55-60 (and often if you are a general hard laborer, you get to retire earlier) so they shift the cost of healthcare to their retirement system.

2. They pay less because they have better demographic factors.. such as lower obesity, less stress, work fewer hours, retire earlier, are less sedentary etc.. that all adds up to higher costs. Now many here will disagree that its a factor but if you look at countries that have the SAME universal or similar universal systems.. they still have wide variation of costs. For example South Korea, and the UK have similar systems (universal healthcare) and about the same lifespan, yet the UK pays three times in healthcare per person than South Korea.. so obviously the system is not as major a factor as you would think.

3. Many countries DO ration healthcare.. and that's how they get a portion of their savings as well. That's why many countries have two systems.. a private one for the wealthy and upper middle class and a public one for everyone else.


As far as education: Well its no doubt that education in this country in my opinon has been decreasing.. but that's IMHO its due to the decrease in quality teachers, decrease in parental education and influence, etc.
However, one of the large factors in why Americans do poorly against other countries in standardized tests.. is because in America.. we are egalitarian. We test everyone and think everyone should get an equal shot at education. So we do much more mainstreaming of kids. In other words.. when japan or Germany takes a standardized test.. its only those college bound kids that are taking the test.. because they have already tracked kids that they deemed more labor or trade into other schools.

this has good and bad effects. The good effect is that their "less smart" kids.. (for lack of a better term right now) can end up with very good paying jobs.. as plumbers, and other trades.. they have much better education for actual work than we do here in the states.. A kid there has spent his last two years getting an apprenticeship and on the job training (that ends up being job more often than not).. where here they end up with a high school diploma or not even graduating.. and then having to find work in jobs that they have no training or experience.

The bad effect is that some kids that would be great professionals etc.. can get tracked into trades and once that's done.. it nearly impossible to get the kid to a college education. I know the problems with standardized tests. I was reading Louis L'amour at 7 years old. Rudyard Kipling and Hemingway at the age of 8, I knew more history than most of my teachers in elementary. So I was giving a test for "gifted and talented" students.. for entrance into the gifted program. It was administered by this elementary school principle. He tallied the results of the test and told my parents "you will be lucky if your son graduates high school".
I graduated top in my class, and tops in my class all the way to a doctorate and started my own successful business by the age of 26.
Now if he had the control to determine where I was sent, based on his "test", I would be a farm laborer.

Somerville said:

A recent study, looking at the recent rise in the death rate for white Americans between the ages of 30 and 64, notes that all other high income nations continue to show decreases in death rates.



and a possible explanation

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My parents had 1 car until I was high-school, and my brothers had left home. We had a black and white TV that was 19 inches, and enjoyed one of the first microwaves neighborhood. It was basically the size of a oven. We were middle class, and you are telling me that we aren't living better than our parents? Our kids go to Caribbean for Spring break, and bitch about lack of parking for the 4th family car. Sorry the explanation is ....