Is Depression Selfish?

Selfishness, in a way, but not by choice. I would clearly separate this kind of 'selfishness' apart from the spoiled-brat kind of selfishness.

Pinkie said:

The interior dialogue is something like "I failed." "No one loves me." "I can't make a difference".

Is this depression...or selfishness?

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Your thread title's a bit misleading to your actual question. But that won't stop me!! Ha!

Thread: Is Depression Selfish? -- Clinical depression is no more selfish than diabetes.

Your OP question? That can either be clinical depression or an ability to "shake it off" due to narcisstic thinking and a habit of dwelling on negatives. That habit can sometimes be hard to break. I even think some people's neural pathways are wired to only be "happy" when they have something to be sad about. Weird.

Pinkie said:

The interior dialogue is something like "I failed." "No one loves me." "I can't make a difference".

Is this depression...or selfishness?

Click to expand...

It depends on intent.

If someone learns depressive behaviors get them attention, then yes.

Otherwise, probably not. Trust me, depression can be a trap with no way out, no matter how much you may want be done with it.

It probably depends on what the person is depressed about. Not getting a pony...that's selfish. Not having a father that acknowledges your existence...not selfish.

Krhazy said:

It probably depends on what the person is depressed about. Not getting a pony...that's selfish. Not having a father that acknowledges your existence...not selfish.

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I don't think its that simple.

The general assumption is that people deal with anxiety in a typical manner. If someone has trouble dealing with their anxiety, even minor issues can be magnified at no fault of the person being depressed, who is often a victim in this circumstance.

However, for most people, your analysis is probably correct Khrazy.

MaggieD said:

Thread: Is Depression Selfish? -- Clinical depression is no more selfish than diabetes.

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qft

MaggieD said:

Your OP question? That can either be clinical depression or an ability to "shake it off" due to narcisstic thinking and a habit of dwelling on negatives. That habit can sometimes be hard to break. I even think some people's neural pathways are wired to only be "happy" when they have something to be sad about. Weird.

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this also seems to be true. or, alternatively, they are clinically depressed, and feel like crap most of the time. the brain's reward center in these cases might only or preferentially respond to sympathy / nurturing. the way to get that reward is to have something wrong. re : Münchausen syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there is, of course, complex biochemistry behind all of this, making the term "selfish" a poor descriptor.

I believe in cases of clinical depression, it's an organic illness caused by chemical imbalance in the brain. Recent studies even found a relation in brain malfunction related to schizophrenia. Calling them "selfish" is a massive kick into the face of the people struck with such a horrible illness. Or would you call a sprinter "selfish" when he can't perform a run because of a broken bone?

It's a "hardware" problem, not a "software" problem.

I'd be careful not to completely summarize something like depression as selfish, but this is a somewhat intuitive question you pose.

There are many faces to what we call "depression," but I've come to characterize it as just being chronically upset about the discrepancy between what one expects life to be like and what it's actually like, and becoming hopeless and disempowered from trying to do anything to reconcile the discrepancy. There is a loss of belief that one can change one's circumstances or improve the things about life that are seen as unacceptable, and therefore there is little or no further effort put forth to change things.

If you spend a lot of time with someone who is chronically/clinically depressed, you get the sense that they are extremely self-absorbed with their own misery. At the same time they may care deeply about others, but little or nothing takes priority over their sense of internal suffering. So yes it can strike you as deeply and inherently selfish, wishing something could swoop in and rescue them.

Interestingly, I have seen and heard of people spontaneously getting past their depression when they come in to a bunch of money (e.g. usually inheritance).

Pinkie said:

The interior dialogue is something like "I failed." "No one loves me." "I can't make a difference".

Is this depression...or selfishness?

Click to expand...

They can be symptoms of clinical depression - which is a mood disorder with a psychological/neurological basis.

Are they selfish thoughts? Well, I think you can interpret them in such a manner, but like I said they are symptoms of a wider psychological problem rather than evidence that the individual's personality is inherently selfish.

Pinkie said:

The interior dialogue is something like "I failed." "No one loves me." "I can't make a difference".

Is this depression...or selfishness?

Click to expand...

What?

Mental illness is not selfish. It's an illness. And one which you can't help having. You can't just decide to stop being depressed one day. And attacking it from the perspective of being a character flaw (like saying it's "selfish") isn't going to do anything but make it worse. You need to attack it from a mental wellness perspective, or it's not going to help.

Mindsets like this are why we are so inadequate at treating the mentally ill. We tell them they're bad people, rather than recognizing that they are hurting.

I am amazed at how flippant the word "depression" it bandied about.

"I'm sooo depressed I didn't get the tickets to that show"

"This song depresses me"

"Are you depressed that you didn't get the date?"

"The weather is so depressing lately"

There are many different forms of depression just as there are many different colors of "yellow" or "green". Ya can't pinpoint any particular one and pair it with something like "selfishness" or "stubbornness"...which is a trait.

I would re-frame the question.

Is depression "self" oriented? I would say yes.

Is it intentional? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Either way, it's a condition that people can get stuck in.

The number one problem with depression is that people aren't realizing that their issues don't define who they are. They identify too strongly with the inner ego dialogue, instead of realizing that hese are thoughts and feelings being observed by them, but aren't them. The "self" is a construct and people put all of their energy into it. When it doesn't turn out in the ways they were attached to, they get depressed. The self isn't real. What is real lies beyond it.

Depression is sometimes necessary on the route to higher consciousness. It can be a symptom that your life needs to be changed and you're steeped in resistance.

Modern pharmaceuticals may temporarily address some of the physical, biochemical aspects... but they do not address the person that is not in alignment with their own spirit.

Neomalthusian said:

Interestingly, I have seen and heard of people spontaneously getting past their depression when they come in to a bunch of money (e.g. usually inheritance).

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I suspect that anyone who stops being depressed when they get an inheritance will not be well off for long.

German guy said:

I believe in cases of clinical depression, it's an organic illness caused by chemical imbalance in the brain. Recent studies even found a relation in brain malfunction related to schizophrenia. Calling them "selfish" is a massive kick into the face of the people struck with such a horrible illness. Or would you call a sprinter "selfish" when he can't perform a run because of a broken bone?

It's a "hardware" problem, not a "software" problem.

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I will level here. I have a LOT of anxiety issues that I have to deal with due to some issues with a brain disorder (aspergers and adhd). This often causes me to feel very depressed and usually two or more times per week. I guess some people can call this selfish (frankly, I don't think it is).

However, I don't think its clinical depression that is primarily chemical in nature, but a matter of issues resolving surprising situations or situations where there is more sensory data than I can handle in a given time period (both are cases of data overload causing me to panic). This causes me anxiety and sometimes it overwhelms me.

Thats the thing though, its still a hardware problem, but the point is that there are often relating factors that make this issue rather complex at times.

Pinkie said:

This is not so much the case with other mental illnesses, I don't think.

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Other mood disorders are, I would say. Bipolar Disorders for example, just alternate between "I'm the best and most interesting person in the world" to "I'm the most miserable and worthless person in the world." Speaking very generally, of course.

Pinkie said:

The interior dialogue is something like "I failed." "No one loves me." "I can't make a difference".

Is this depression...or selfishness?

Click to expand...

I've pondered this question before and I'm always torn on my answer. On the one hand, I say 'no' because there are often real catalysts for depression (clinical or not). Tragic events, chemical imbalances and so on. On the other hand, I say 'yes' because of my own experiences with depression.

For about 1 year several years ago, I went into a bad depression that I ended up getting myself out off honestly because I got tired of myself being pitiful. When I look back on that time, I really was being incredibly self-indulgent and just all around ridiculous even though all of my problems and thoughts seemed incredibly serious and reasonably judged at the time. Similarly, a former friend of mine had clinical depression as did a former acquaintance. Even though such depression apparently has exclusively physical roots, they too were incredibly self-absorbed and had they allowed themselves to get out of their minds, they might have gotten out of it. In fact, it seems that my acquaintance almost found a happiness in being depressed.

That said, bringing this up to people who are depressed or reducing depression merely to selfishness is, I think, quite wrongheaded and dangerous. The pain of depression is real even if the reality of the depressed is imagined.

In the end, I think that self-absorption and selfishness are certainly a part of depression. However, I think the question is "what causes that?" Is it a chemical imbalance, an event, the person's own choices, a combination of all three or something else entirely?

Temporal said:

I would re-frame the question.

Is depression "self" oriented? I would say yes.

Is it intentional? Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Either way, it's a condition that people can get stuck in.

The number one problem with depression is that people aren't realizing that their issues don't define who they are. They identify too strongly with the inner ego dialogue, instead of realizing that hese are thoughts and feelings being observed by them, but aren't them. The "self" is a construct and people put all of their energy into it. When it doesn't turn out in the ways they were attached to, they get depressed. The self isn't real. What is real lies beyond it.

Depression is sometimes necessary on the route to higher consciousness. It can be a symptom that your life needs to be changed and you're steeped in resistance.

Modern pharmaceuticals may temporarily address some of the physical, biochemical aspects... but they do not address the person that is not in alignment with their own spirit.

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For once I agree with you re modern medicines !!! :2razz:

Pinkie said:

The interior dialogue is something like "I failed." "No one loves me." "I can't make a difference".

Is this depression...or selfishness?

Click to expand...

Selfish - I don't know . . . those are just negative feelings that might come or go. It's actions that are selfish.

That isn't depression though - depression is far more deep and long lasting than that and often peopel who are depressed are emotionless and thus won't have those thoughts.

I think the lack of empathy of this thread has to do with the culture of making more money. Go figure.

Krhazy said:

It probably depends on what the person is depressed about. Not getting a pony...that's selfish. Not having a father that acknowledges your existence...not selfish.

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I would agree, except that as a sufferer, depression makes no sense. You're not depressed because you think your "life is a failure." You think your life is a failure because you're depressed. It's not a logical thing. There's no good reason to be depressed. There's not even a bad reason for it. It comes before all of the reasons.

Self-pity can be very selfish. Clinical depression, which can be experienced even after a heart event (which can cause chemical changes to the brain), is very different.

But I don't want to practice psychology or psychiatry without a license.

rocket88 said:

I would agree, except that as a sufferer, depression makes no sense. You're not depressed because you think your "life is a failure." You think your life is a failure because you're depressed. It's not a logical thing. There's no good reason to be depressed. There's not even a bad reason for it. It comes before all of the reasons.

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Along the same lines, people who are really depressed don't choose to be depressed, and can't neccesarally "snap out of it" or choose to be not depressed. They are just depressed. Personally, I fight depression, and I believe that my depression is heridatary. I can now recognize that even as a small child I had depressive tendancies, although no one recognized it as being depression and I was never fully in a depression.

These days I fight depression, in that I have learned that if I can change what I am thinking about I will not become as depressed, but that honestly only goes so far - it's like I almost feel that when I do that I am just temporarally tricking myself into not being depressed (which is certainly better than dwelling in my depression). I know, it's weird and doesn't make any sense.

Over the years I've heard a lot of people say stuff like "if I was depressed and was going to kill myself, I would go out and kill an buch of other people first". If they truely understood depression, they would have realized that if they were depressed enough to be suicidel, the last thing on their mind would be making an effort to kill other people. When you are in deep depression you are so much indespare that you really have no urge to do anything, and you could care less if you died or not, let alone have enough energy to plan some type of evil plot. Anyone who thinks like that isn't depressed - although they may have some other mental illness.

Depression is definately not selfish, but people who are selfish themselves may tend to think of depressed people as being selfish.