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Bonney Lake woman hit in head by stray bullet identified, dies of wound

Grand Mal said:
Yeah, but there has to come a point where you and every other responsible gun owner has to ask, "How can we stop these idiots from screwing it up for the rest of us?" Because that idiot standing on his front porch having a tantrum with his gun and killing an innocent woman, that idiot is a bigger threat to your 2nd ammendment rights than all the New York and California liberals your subconscious can toss into your nightmares.
I say, pass a test to get a license. Grandfather everyone in who has a gun now but everyone new has to pass a test. The test is only written (verbal if you can't read and write) about safe handling and storage and what the laws are. If you fail the test, you have to take a course.
Won't cure the problem (you can't cure stupid) but it might help.
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That sounds all well and good if we were talking about reasonable people.

However, in the USA there is a group that HATE GUNS and want them all banned, and look for any incremental excuse to ban then and keep them out of citizens hands.

These people ARE NOT REASONABLE.

The test you propose would convoluted into some monstrosity that so one could pass.

That is why we as gun owners have to fight any infringement proposed. It is because we are not dealing with reasonable people, but people that are CONTROL FREAKS, and who know we cannot be controlled as long as we can shoot back.
 
RetiredNSmilin said:
..if it walks like a duck.....
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You don't know **** about what I think. For starters I have no interest in your guns. I am just sick and tired of innocent people dying because of irresponsible uneducated gun owners.

I believe that if we require some one to pass a test to drive a lethal weapon we at least should apply the same standard to a firearm.

Cue up the vapid infringement NRA narrative now.
 
Top Cat said:
You don't know **** about what I think. For starters I have no interest in your guns. I am just sick and tired of innocent people dying because of irresponsible uneducated gun owners.

I believe that if we require some one to pass a test to drive a lethal weapon we at least should apply the same standard to a firearm.

Cue up the vapid infringement NRA narrative now.
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So, back to my questions, would current firearms owners now have to go get a license to own the firearms they already have? Oh, I assume you give a pass to CCL holders, since they passed a more rigorous testing process, including shooting proficiency, correct?
 
Casper said:
So, back to my questions, would current firearms owners now have to go get a license to own the firearms they already have? Oh, I assume you give a pass to CCL holders, since they passed a more rigorous testing process, including shooting proficiency, correct?
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I'd settle for new. It is progress.
 
Top Cat said:
I'd settle for new. It is progress.
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Thanks for the answer, it was honest, hard to find on these threads. I expect our resident Constitutional experts will have something to add, but for myself I would have to consider it more.
 
Casper said:
Thanks for the answer, it was honest, hard to find on these threads. I expect our resident Constitutional experts will have something to add, but for myself I would have to consider it more.
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I think we can all agree that the system is flawed.
 
Rucker61 said:
They could just read the four rules of gun safety included in every owner's manual.
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thousands of people have been killed during high speed police chases as well. What do you think the purpose of this thread being started was? You are right, those of us who own firearms understand that. Those on the board who are upset about the politics of gun owners and the NRA apparently think such a thread is an effective way to bash gun owners in general.
 
Top Cat said:
Should be mandatory IMO
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I have to ask do you really care or is this nothing more than an attempt by another liberal to try to attack gun ownership because of the political lean of gun owners? I have doubts about your motivation and I note people do stupid things all the time that kill others. I bet texting and driving kills far more people than the victims of a theft trying to shoot the thief do.
 
Grand Mal said:
You serious?
Nah, you're just tugging my chain, right?
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nope, there are cases where a robber was killed by a bank guard and the robber's accomplice was convicted and executed for the felony murder rule. Now that hasn't happened in years but it has in the past. Its called the felony murder rule meaning if you are part of a felonious criminal activity and as a result of that felony, someone dies, you are guilty of first degree murder.
 
Manc Skipper said:
Trumped by the word manslaughtered. A new gun? A refresher course. Professionals have to prove they are up to date in order to practice. Why not shooters?
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uh because the people most likely to cause harm with the use of firearms are the least likely to obey such rules. Criminals don't own guns legally-how are you and others who want to ban gun ownership, going to force criminals to come get some training before they obtain their stolen or illegally owned guns
 
Grand Mal said:
Yeah, but there has to come a point where you and every other responsible gun owner has to ask, "How can we stop these idiots from screwing it up for the rest of us?" Because that idiot standing on his front porch having a tantrum with his gun and killing an innocent woman, that idiot is a bigger threat to your 2nd ammendment rights than all the New York and California liberals your subconscious can toss into your nightmares.
I say, pass a test to get a license. Grandfather everyone in who has a gun now but everyone new has to pass a test. The test is only written (verbal if you can't read and write) about safe handling and storage and what the laws are. If you fail the test, you have to take a course.
Won't cure the problem (you can't cure stupid) but it might help.
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you seem to forget that we have constitutional rights even if you Canadians don't. and since there are so many politicians and others who want to restrict our rights, we are dubious about agreeing to any sort of requirement that can be used to ban or prevent people from owning guns. Sort of like literacy tests to vote--southern white racists flunked black Harvard Graduates but billy bob gator skinner passed despite having a second grad education.
 
Top Cat said:
You don't know **** about what I think. For starters I have no interest in your guns. I am just sick and tired of innocent people dying because of irresponsible uneducated gun owners.

I believe that if we require some one to pass a test to drive a lethal weapon we at least should apply the same standard to a firearm.

Cue up the vapid infringement NRA narrative now.
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I am rather dubious about the validity of your claimed motivations. And its obvious you have a hard on for the NRA. The NRA has no relevance to this discussion. The NRA doesn't advise people to do what this shooter did.
 
TurtleDude said:
I have to ask do you really care or is this nothing more than an attempt by another liberal to try to attack gun ownership because of the political lean of gun owners? I have doubts about your motivation and I note people do stupid things all the time that kill others. I bet texting and driving kills far more people than the victims of a theft trying to shoot the thief do.
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Why would you doubt my motivation? I have been consistent on this. If you want talk about the dangers of texting, feel free to start your own thread.
 
Top Cat said:
Why would you doubt my motivation? I have been consistent on this. If you want talk about the dangers of texting, feel free to start your own thread.
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I just wonder why -of all the people who get killed by stupid things each day-what the motivation was for this? Its obvious you want to use this tragedy to try to restrict gun owners isn't it?
 
Top Cat said:
Should be mandatory IMO
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Just like voter training and free speech training.

In fact judging by the last few letters to the editor I have read, you should have to take a grammar and spelling class before being allowed to write to the paper.
 
Grand Mal said:
You serious?
Nah, you're just tugging my chain, right?
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RCW 9A.32.050
Murder in the second degree
(1) A person is guilty of murder in the second degree when:
..............................................

(b) He or she commits or attempts to commit any felony, including assault, other than those enumerated in RCW 9A.32.030(1)(c), and, in the course of and in furtherance of such crime or in immediate flight therefrom, he or she, or another participant, causes the death of a person other than one of the participants; except that in any prosecution under this subdivision (1)(b) in which the defendant was not the only participant in the underlying crime, if established by the defendant by a preponderance of the evidence
it is a defense that the defendant:
(i) Did not commit the homicidal act or in any way solicit, request, command, importune, cause, or aid the commission thereof; and
(ii) Was not armed with a deadly weapon, or any instrument, article, or substance readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury; and
(iii) Had no reasonable grounds to believe that any other participant was armed with such a weapon, instrument, article, or substance; and
(iv) Had no reasonable grounds to believe that any other participant intended to engage in conduct likely to result in death or serious physical injury.
(2) Murder in the second degree is a class A felony.


So the car thief engaged in a felony, during which another participant, the jeep owner, fired a shot which resulted in the death of unrelated party while he was fleeing.

He had reasonable grounds to expect a person in a rural neighborhood is armed with a deadly weapon, and reasoanbly expected that a car owner might use force to prevent flight.

So the jeep thief should go for murder, and the jeep owner for manslaughter.

As far as I'm concerned if you commit a felony you're responsible for any deaths that occur where your criminal behavior is proximate cause, that's a separate issue from the owner who ended the young womans life because he acted with reckless and wanton disregard for human life.
 
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Manc Skipper said:
Trumped by the word manslaughtered. A new gun? A refresher course. Professionals have to prove they are up to date in order to practice. Why not shooters?
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Because acting as yourself for personal business is different then acting as a professional for profit, you can file your own taxes every year, if you prepare someone else's for compensation you need a license. same concept.
 
Grand Mal said:
The guy standing on his porch popping caps into the neighbourhood, he was committing a crime, right? Was his stupidity a result of his jeep being stolen? I'd say it was a 'pre-existing condidtion'.
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He's guilty of manslaughter.
 
TurtleDude said:
I just wonder why -of all the people who get killed by stupid things each day-what the motivation was for this? Its obvious you want to use this tragedy to try to restrict gun owners isn't it?
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I want the deaths of innocents to stop. And in my opinion mandatory education and testing would help.

That is it. STOP trying to ascribe alteriors motives.
 
Top Cat said:
I want the deaths of innocents to stop. And in my opinion mandatory education and testing would help.

That is it. STOP trying to ascribe alteriors motives.
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that violates the constitution. and if you really want to stop harm to society-make people get education before they spawn. seriously. what happened if the shooter was a better shot? what would "training" do?

tell him he cannot shoot at someone who has engaged in a felonly offense against him?
 
Top Cat said:
You don't know **** about what I think. For starters I have no interest in your guns. I am just sick and tired of innocent people dying because of irresponsible uneducated gun owners.

I believe that if we require some one to pass a test to drive a lethal weapon we at least should apply the same standard to a firearm.

Cue up the vapid infringement NRA narrative now.
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Quack, quack.....

you are the one spitting up tired old narratives.

I am not even an NRA member.

However, I love the fact all you bannerites (thanks, TD) think there is ONLY ONE gun owner organization out there.

While you attack the NRA with blinders on, and seeing no others, all of the other gun friendly organizations are kicking butt.

Keep up with the anti-NRA mantras...please...

Quack, quack...
 
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Manc Skipper said:
As a nurse I pay annually for my licence, and must show that I have maintained my ability to practice safely by updating my skills. ;)
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exactly, you have a professional license that you are using to practice a skill for financial gain. you wouldn't need your nurse license to take care of yourself.

If I were an armed security guard in WA state I would require a security license and training in order to recieve compensation, to own my own gun to protect my own stuff and life I require no such license.

You can probably represent yourself in court without becoming a lawyer, to be paid to do it for other people requires a license. the dividing line is, is this for personal business or commercial business for compensation?
 
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