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Suit filed to permit Californians to carry guns openly in public

I really would love to see a push for to make every state open carry and CWP be just like drivers licences. Theres really no reason why it should be this way already. This is something the people let get away from them and now it be taken back.
 
MickeyW said:
Absolutely correct. It's a well grounded law suit!
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You may or may not have noticed that a law suit is an appeal to governments courts where nothing is well grounded and no outcome is guaranteed. However the ballot box guarantees a result and if the people are informed they vote for what is best for them.

That is a secret which few firearm organisations know or care to know and as a consequence few firearm owners know, even less citizens.

It seems to me that it is not rocket science to figure if firearm owners and organisations do nothing about gun control educating the public they can kiss their rear ends good bye. Why this simple fact has remained the most closely guarded secret I have no idea. I'm pretty sure gun control is happy that firearm organisation have nobody that can figure it out.
 
AGENT J said:
I really would love to see a push for to make every state open carry and CWP be just like drivers licences. Theres really no reason why it should be this way already. This is something the people let get away from them and now it be taken back.
Click to expand...

We already have a law the spells it out clearly. Why on earth are you rooting for something that clearly infringes that law. Is it not good enough for you?

How is permitted CCW not an infringement?

As for no reason how about government should not be restricting our rights? If we want to take back our rights then best we know what we want.

BTW vehicle and drives licences are both grounded in taxation and proven requirements. Vehicle and drives are licensed on PUBLIC roads. Vehicles have many control and require skill, coordination, dexterity and full attention to operate correctly. Even with our system people find ways to have a large number of accidents due to driver error.

There are about 500 firearm accidental deaths per year. How much lower will training, registration and licences make it?
 
Crimefree said:
We already have a law the spells it out clearly. Why on earth are you rooting for something that clearly infringes that law. Is it not good enough for you?

How is permitted CCW not an infringement?

As for no reason how about government should not be restricting our rights? If we want to take back our rights then best we know what we want.

BTW vehicle and drives licences are both grounded in taxation and proven requirements. Vehicle and drives are licensed on PUBLIC roads. Vehicles have many control and require skill, coordination, dexterity and full attention to operate correctly. Even with our system people find ways to have a large number of accidents due to driver error.

There are about 500 firearm accidental deaths per year. How much lower will training, registration and licences make it?
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incoherent ranting and nonsensical strawmen say what? LMAO
 
AGENT J said:
incoherent ranting and nonsensical strawmen say what? LMAO
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Your inability to comprehend is not my problem it is yours. The simple fact you used ridicule to avoid what you disliked is proof beyond doubt there was no lack of comprehension. Do look it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Care to explain your strawman claim so I can see what you are befuddled by.

Take it paragraph by paragraph and tell me what you cannot understand. You will not because you are impotent to do so.
 
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Crimefree said:
You may or may not have noticed that a law suit is an appeal to governments courts where nothing is well grounded and no outcome is guaranteed. However the ballot box guarantees a result and if the people are informed they vote for what is best for them.

That is a secret which few firearm organisations know or care to know and as a consequence few firearm owners know, even less citizens.

It seems to me that it is not rocket science to figure if firearm owners and organisations do nothing about gun control educating the public they can kiss their rear ends good bye. Why this simple fact has remained the most closely guarded secret I have no idea. I'm pretty sure gun control is happy that firearm organisation have nobody that can figure it out.
Click to expand...

I don't fully agree with that. The NRA and I personally, have been training adults and the youth of America for a long time.

And, many a ballot box win, has been appealed to the courts, and overturned.
 
Crimefree said:
Your inability to comprehend is not my problem it is yours. The simple fact you used ridicule to avoid what you disliked is proof beyond doubt there was no lack of comprehension. Do look it up.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

Care to explain your strawman claim so I can see what you are befuddled by.

Take it paragraph by paragraph and tell me what you cannot understand. You will not because you are impotent to do so.
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HOLY ****! more incoherent ranting. No its your issue, Your inability to communicate clearly and not make strawmen is your issue to work on because until you make sense I will continue to laugh. LMAO

Ill say my statement over again and you can tell me what your beefs are one at a time coherently. The topic is about cali and them fighting for their rights. I stated early thats good and I hope they get them. I also made some other comments about how I think rights should not be infringed and how they should be but the comment that set you in too an incoherent tizzy was this:

"I would really like to see a push to make sure every state is open carry and Id like my CWP to be national like a drivers license. Theres really no reason why it shouldnt be this way already. This is something the people let get away from them and now it needs to be taken back."

do now you go, calmly, sanely and coherently, what is beef ONE, go!
:popcorn2:
 
MickeyW said:
I don't fully agree with that. The NRA and I personally, have been training adults and the youth of America for a long time.

And, many a ballot box win, has been appealed to the courts, and overturned.
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Thanks for the info but there are a few problems not so obvious until one looks.

What good will training do? Add a few tens or a hundred new members? Members don't vote and numbers do not count unless they do vote for supporting parties and can be told to not vote or vote as the case may be.

The problem with gun control is not solved by selling more guns, services or membership is it. None of these will take back public confidence in supporting gun control and that much is not even obvious to the NRA or they simply do not care. It is not rocket science either. The NRA instead of leading the way to a win is repeating the reason for failure of every firearm organisation in the world that has lost. That is unacceptable when failure cannot be learnt from.

It is not possible to win in governments courts. Contacting members and asking them to contact political reps is not going to win. It is based on the idiotic idea that politicians decide what laws get passed or will be helpful if funded... Politicians only respond to VOTES and the NRA cannot deliver a single vote. Gun control has demonstrated time and again via public surveys it can deliver votes. Gun control supporters are serious about getting what they want. Firearm organisation well you tell me.

If the NRA could win why do they not and cannot win in Calif. as only one example? The truth. The NRA do not know how to win I am very sad to say.

Fighting to win means members need to vote for their rights and know why they are voting. Then the most important fact. No law can get passed without public support. No law can stand if the public want it removed. Do we not have enough examples of this principle? Slavery, women's rights, prohibition of alcohol, religious laws, pornography....

So I ask what is the NRA's problem when a perfectly acceptable and correct means exists for the public to demand the return of their rights, security and safety? It is the only way of winning this fight and I defy anybody to show another way. Is it rocket science the NRA have not figured it out?
 
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AGENT J said:
HOLY ****! more incoherent ranting. No its your issue, Your inability to communicate clearly and not make strawmen is your issue to work on because until you make sense I will continue to laugh. LMAO

The communications problem is yours and you incoherent babbling playing the man not the ball is not communications. If you think I am a mind reader who just knows what you cannot understand then.... than I thought you were. I see no strawman claims. Why have you not pointed them out with specifies? :shock:

You were specifically asked to explain your puerile remarks so I could get some idea of what you you failed to grasp. So what do you do? Show again how brilliant you are at incoherent communications.....

Ill say my statement over again and you can tell me what your beefs are one at a time coherently.
Click to expand...

Oh!! goodie. but I had already done this as you will now see.

The topic is about cali and them fighting for their rights.
Click to expand...

What made you think I was not aware of that?

We already have a law the spells it out clearly. (It's called the constitution you may have heard of it.)

I stated early thats good and I hope they get them.
Click to expand...

Why on earth are you rooting for something that clearly infringes that law. Is it not good enough for you?

I also made some other comments about how I think rights should not be infringed and how they should be but the comment that set you in too an incoherent tizzy was this:
Click to expand...

How is permitted CCW not an infringement?

"I would really like to see a push to make sure every state is open carry and Id like my CWP to be national like a drivers license.
Click to expand...


Theres really no reason why it shouldnt be this way already.
Click to expand...

As for no reason how about government should not be restricting our rights?

This is something the people let get away from them and now it needs to be taken back."
Click to expand...

If we want to take back our rights then best we know what we want.

do now you go, calmly, sanely and coherently, what is beef ONE, go!
:popcorn2:
Click to expand...

This is you idea of explaining what you fail to comprehend from what I had written. Is it even possible you can see why it failed abysmally? It is entirely possible it's the popcorn that has addled something.

Your comparison with a drivers licence fails BECAUSE

BTW vehicle and drives licences are both grounded in taxation and proven requirements. Vehicle and drives are licensed on PUBLIC roads. Vehicles have many control and require skill, coordination, dexterity and full attention to operate correctly. Even with our system people find ways to have a large number of accidents due to driver error.

As for any possible benefit from this unconstitutional idea.

There are about 500 firearm accidental deaths per year. How much lower will training, registration and licences make it?

I can gather these are not your thought out ideas but something you picked up and are repeating as there is no reasoned thought behind your claims. What I tried to do was provide some of the reasoning you should have applied. I'm sorry I am a critical thinker and have little clue what dots you need. Next time try to be more polite and ask relevant questions. That would make communications a lot easier than levelling personal criticism and foolish claims.
Click to expand...
 
AGENT J said:
I really would love to see a push for to make every state open carry and CWP be just like drivers licences. Theres really no reason why it should be this way already. This is something the people let get away from them and now it be taken back.
Click to expand...

Every gun law without exception is unconstitutional.
 
Crimefree said:
AGENT J said:
HOLY ****! more incoherent ranting. No its your issue, Your inability to communicate clearly and not make strawmen is your issue to work on because until you make sense I will continue to laugh. LMAO

The communications problem is yours and you incoherent babbling playing the man not the ball is not communications. If you think I am a mind reader who just knows what you cannot understand then.... than I thought you were. I see no strawman claims. Why have you not pointed them out with specifies? :shock:

You were specifically asked to explain your puerile remarks so I could get some idea of what you you failed to grasp. So what do you do? Show again how brilliant you are at incoherent communications.....



Oh!! goodie. but I had already done this as you will now see.



What made you think I was not aware of that?

We already have a law the spells it out clearly. (It's called the constitution you may have heard of it.)



Why on earth are you rooting for something that clearly infringes that law. Is it not good enough for you?



How is permitted CCW not an infringement?





As for no reason how about government should not be restricting our rights?



If we want to take back our rights then best we know what we want.



This is you idea of explaining what you fail to comprehend from what I had written. Is it even possible you can see why it failed abysmally? It is entirely possible it's the popcorn that has addled something.

Your comparison with a drivers licence fails BECAUSE

BTW vehicle and drives licences are both grounded in taxation and proven requirements. Vehicle and drives are licensed on PUBLIC roads. Vehicles have many control and require skill, coordination, dexterity and full attention to operate correctly. Even with our system people find ways to have a large number of accidents due to driver error.

As for any possible benefit from this unconstitutional idea.

There are about 500 firearm accidental deaths per year. How much lower will training, registration and licences make it?

I can gather these are not your thought out ideas but something you picked up and are repeating as there is no reasoned thought behind your claims. What I tried to do was provide some of the reasoning you should have applied. I'm sorry I am a critical thinker and have little clue what dots you need. Next time try to be more polite and ask relevant questions. That would make communications a lot easier than levelling personal criticism and foolish claims.
Click to expand...

:lamo

and another incoherent melt down full of nonsneical ranting and strawmen !!!! LMAO I love it
Click to expand...
 
blaxshep said:
Every gun law without exception is unconstitutional.
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That simply isn't true they way you state it, I think I know what you mean but and I probably agree in general but what you actually said isn't true.

For example if metal A was found to be cancerous and toxic to the touch and there was a law saying no new guns could be made out of metal A, you would be hard pressed to prove that law was unconstitutional and win that case.
 
AGENT J said:
That simply isn't true they way you state it, I think I know what you mean but and I probably agree in general but what you actually said isn't true.

For example if metal A was found to be cancerous and toxic to the touch and there was a law saying no new guns could be made out of metal A, you would be hard pressed to prove that law was unconstitutional and win that case.
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Ok you got me. There's always one in the crowd.
 
blaxshep said:
Ok you got me. There's always one in the crowd.
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;) just saying

And like i said Im sure I agree with you in theory with what I think you meant to say and I have said similar stuff here at DP before.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Can you find the word "gun" in the Constitution at all?
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that's a good point-no where in the constitution was there any power delegated to the federal government to restrict privately owned arms-be they swords, dirks, switchblades, clubs, cudgels, shotguns rifles or pistols
 
TurtleDude said:
that's a good point-no where in the constitution was there any power delegated to the federal government to restrict privately owned arms-be they swords, dirks, switchblades, clubs, cudgels, shotguns rifles or pistols
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Correct. In fact, I believe it says that the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. Quite the opposite of delegating power to the government to restrict such items.
 
blaxshep said:
Every gun law without exception is unconstitutional.
Click to expand...

Firearm owners currently are in such confusion even gun control looks good to them. I blame firearm organisations for this sad state because they have become idle lackeys of government and as long as people can still shoot and join they are content. Hey don't rock the boat we may have to do some work.

Simply put they have abdicated their duty to inform, educate and protect our rights, the only reason they exist.

When firearm owners start asking for gun control laws you know you have a problem that is going to increase and spread because they do not know any better.

Anyone who thinks this is irrelevant or a passing phase is very much in denial.
 
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:eek:uch:
AGENT J said:
:lamo

and another incoherent melt down full of nonsneical ranting and strawmen !!!! LMAO I love it
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You must be that only person who does not understand. So I give you a chance. Prove your idiotic rambling or go somewhere your level fits in.

Take each one of your stupid claims and demonstrate it valid by quoting only what I have written that proves this idiocy.


Lets see you use a reasonable rational approach to that. My bet is you are not smart enough.
 
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AGENT J said:
That simply isn't true they way you state it, I think I know what you mean but and I probably agree in general but what you actually said isn't true.

For example if metal A was found to be cancerous and toxic to the touch and there was a law saying no new guns could be made out of metal A, you would be hard pressed to prove that law was unconstitutional and win that case.
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Idiotic there are many different suitable metals that could be used and it is hardly likely government will disarm itself. A few seconds thought was all this needed to refute. What ifs are so juvenile.
 
Ever notice how, when a poster runs our of real arguments, they start with the insults?
It's a good way to know when someone has nothing of value to say.
 
AGENT J said:
I really would love to see a push for to make every state open carry and CWP be just like drivers licences. Theres really no reason why it should be this way already. This is something the people let get away from them and now it be taken back.
Click to expand...

Why do you see firearm owners begging for gun control laws as any kind of progress?

Taking back means you take back what you have given not give more. :roll::shock::doh
 
Anybody can enlighten me on the point of open carry, other than showing you have the right?
 
Reed95 said:
Anybody can enlighten me on the point of open carry, other than showing you have the right?
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Concealed carry is probably banned. Since citizens have the right to carry if they cannot carry concealed they must be able to carry open. Open carry is idiotic but concealed carry laws are even more so. Government at its best creating useless laws.
 
Crimefree said:
Concealed carry is probably banned. Since citizens have the right to carry if they cannot carry concealed they must be able to carry open. Open carry is idiotic but concealed carry laws are even more so. Government at its best creating useless laws.
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I don't recall the Second Amendment saying anything about keeping and bearing arms only where they can be seen.
 
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