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The twists the turns the gyrations.

Crimefree said:
Uneducated dimwit response. How long does steel last? They will probably rust before wearing out.

If only gun control advocates could apply a smattering of logic to this problem they would be beating their fellow travellers in the gun control boat as the biggest dummies they had ever met.
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I nearly forgot I was in the gun forum. lol Have you ever heard of "metal fatigue"? Any part that has friction is going to have wear...or didn't they teach you that in logic 101? If guns didn't break or parts wear out there wouldn't be a gun parts market, now would there? If only gun nuts would think before jumping the gun to false conclusions.
 
Moot said:
I nearly forgot I was in the gun forum. lol Have you ever heard of "metal fatigue"? Any part that has friction is going to have wear...or didn't they teach you that in logic 101? If guns didn't break or parts wear out there wouldn't be a gun parts market, now would there? If only gun nuts would think before jumping the gun to false conclusions.
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It would take a very, very long time.
 
Moot said:
I nearly forgot I was in the gun forum. lol Have you ever heard of "metal fatigue"? Any part that has friction is going to have wear...or didn't they teach you that in logic 101? If guns didn't break or parts wear out there wouldn't be a gun parts market, now would there? If only gun nuts would think before jumping the gun to false conclusions.
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While there is undoubtedly a replacement market you have not shown this market panders to much more than 10% of firearm owners. Yes parts break and wear out mostly because the firearms are being subjected to more than they were designed to do. All competitions force higher forces and considerably greater use than expected.

Put some figures to your claim or go away. Innuendo is not evidence and your reasoning stinks.

I have a 1917 DWM "luger" LP08 that is as good today as it was when made. Heaven forbid the 32 round magazine causing heart attacks. Look sharp BS does not work here.

LP08.jpg​
 
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blaxshep said:
It would take a very, very long time.
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It probably depends on the design of the gun and how well it's cleaned and how often it's fired. But cheap "junk" guns made of cheaper metals....probably wouldn't take that long.
 
Moot said:
It probably depends on the design of the gun and how well it's cleaned and how often it's fired. But cheap "junk" guns made of cheaper metals....probably wouldn't take that long.
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Give a couple of examples don't waffle
 
jet57 said:
Your silly denial aren't going to change the facts as I've related them.

When did I ever say that selling guns out of your trunk at a gun show was "above board"? You can read I think; read again. Ya' don't run a background check on a black market sale. The M1 I bought was hand carried over to another dealer who operated in San Jose, and I had to make the purchase through them so I didn't have to drive to Sac.

Oh, and call up "The Gun Store" in Las Vegas and ask them about the "beef jerky shows".

So, I don't know where you think you're going dude, but it ain't factual discussion.
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So what you are saying is: the "loophole" is there by someone breaking the law and selling firearms illegally?


Sent from my grapefruit using smoke signals.
 
Crimefree said:
While there is undoubtedly a replacement market you have not shown this market panders to much more than 10% of firearm owners. Yes parts break and wear out mostly because the firearms are being subjected to more than they were designed to do....
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I think you just made my point. Thank you. :)
 
Moot said:
I think you just made my point. Thank you. :)
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Shees Louise give me a break.

Whatever you are smoking I want some.

Explain how 10% pushed beyond design limits makes your point? You do realise that means 90% are going to survive. The mind boggles at what some people will try and grasp at.

Because some people race cars they are all going to fail........

Ahh!!! what the hell trying to teach a gun control advocate math or think is impossible.

:failpail:​
 
blackjack50 said:
So what you are saying is: the "loophole" is there by someone breaking the law and selling firearms illegally?
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Hang on that would mean there is no loop hole!!!
 
Moot said:
Guns manufactured by the "ring of fire".

frontline: hot guns: RING OF FIRE / A Hazardous Consumer Product | PBS

It's an interesting read.
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Sure is and you should have read it.

Later in the broadcast, a Colorado police officer added that he had investigated "countless" homicides and other crimes involving Ring of Fire handguns, but that he could not recall a single episode of their effective use for self-protection.

So it appears Jennings crap only works if you want to kill somebody. Exactly how is that a fail?
 
Crimefree said:
Shees Louise give me a break.

Whatever you are smoking I want some.

Explain how 10% pushed beyond design limits makes your point? You do realise that means 90% are going to survive. The mind boggles at what some people will try and grasp at.

Because some people race cars they are all going to fail........

Ahh!!! what the hell trying to teach a gun control advocate math or think is impossible.

failpail:​
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Did you read the 'ring of fire' article I posted for you? The guns are so cheap and such poor quality that you can "cut the metal with a knife." The 'ring of fire' guns account for about 35% of all guns used in crime and homicides....which is about the only thing they are good for since they're considered unreliable if not useless for self defense and hunting.
 
Crimefree said:
Sure is and you should have read it.

Later in the broadcast, a Colorado police officer added that he had investigated "countless" homicides and other crimes involving Ring of Fire handguns, but that he could not recall a single episode of their effective use for self-protection.

So it appears Jennings crap only works if you want to kill somebody. Exactly how is that a fail?
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And the metal is so soft you could cut it with a knife. The "ring of fire' guns aren't durable....which means they weren't made to last very long. They are useless for self defense and hunting. Yet they account for about a 1/3 to 1/2 of the handgun market....and used in 1/3 of all homicides and gun crime. So if the ring of fire guns were restricted...those guns could easily become rare because of their lack of durability and reliability...which was my original point. So it stands to reason that the more rare those junk guns become on the market, the less homicides and gun crime there will be.
 
Moot said:
Did you read the 'ring of fire' article I posted for you? The guns are so cheap and such poor quality that you can "cut the metal with a knife." The 'ring of fire' guns account for about 35% of all guns used in crime and homicides....which is about the only thing they are good for since they're considered unreliable if not useless for self defense and hunting.
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They had one of those things (I cannot recall which one since the companies used to change names constantly- Jennings, Bryco Etc) at the range. I noted to the clerk that such guns used to be supplied with your choice of a ski mask or half a pair of pantyhose. They are often made of ZINC which is pretty cheap-


I would note that one of those POS firearms-the RAVEN was often carried by cops as a back up since it actually was rather reliable and cheap. But if we ban cheap guns, we are doing what Bannerrhoids have often done in the past-tried to disarm poor people.

True, I'd never own one of those Cheap POS handguns because I am fortunate, I can afford high grade stuff which is why my main competition pistol is a 2400 dollar CZ custom shop CTS and my son shoots trap with a 8000 dollar Beretta DT 11. But I don't think the second amendment should be limited to people making 6 figures or more.

Most reputable gun shops don't sell those zinc turds BTW. However, saying they are not useful for self defense is not exactly true since most self defense with firearms involves displaying the weapon rather than actually shooting the attacker
 
TurtleDude said:
They had one of those things (I cannot recall which one since the companies used to change names constantly- Jennings, Bryco Etc) at the range. I noted to the clerk that such guns used to be supplied with your choice of a ski mask or half a pair of pantyhose. They are often made of ZINC which is pretty cheap-


I would note that one of those POS firearms-the RAVEN was often carried by cops as a back up since it actually was rather reliable and cheap. But if we ban cheap guns, we are doing what Bannerrhoids have often done in the past-tried to disarm poor people.

True, I'd never own one of those Cheap POS handguns because I am fortunate, I can afford high grade stuff which is why my main competition pistol is a 2400 dollar CZ custom shop CTS and my son shoots trap with a 8000 dollar Beretta DT 11. But I don't think the second amendment should be limited to people making 6 figures or more.

Most reputable gun shops don't sell those zinc turds BTW. However, saying they are not useful for self defense is not exactly true since most self defense with firearms involves displaying the weapon rather than actually shooting the attacker
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But if the POS guns are unreliable or useless for self defense then isn't that giving poor people a false sense of security?

So the notion that banning cheap guns would be disarming poor people is misleading because what you're really doing is sentencing them to death if they had to depend on those guns for self defense.

Making cheap unreliable guns and marketing them to the poor is racist in the same vein that predatory lending and reverse red lining is racist, imo. It's just one more way to prey on the poor.
 
Moot said:
But if the POS guns are unreliable or useless for self defense then isn't that giving poor people a false sense of security? So the notion that banning cheap guns would be disarming poor people is misleading because what you're really doing is sentencing them to a death if they had to depend on those guns for self defense. Making cheap unreliable guns and marketing them to the poor is racist in the same vein that predatory lending and reverse red lining is racist, imo. It's just one more way to prey on the poor.
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1) actually they often WORK, though they are in calibers that are not great for stopping power-22 and 25. Criminals that use them usually use them for Intimidation factor (give me your wallet or I will shoot you).

2) I agree with your last point. They are crappy and are marketed to poor people.
 
TurtleDude said:
1) actually they often WORK, though they are in calibers that are not great for stopping power-22 and 25. Criminals that use them usually use them for Intimidation factor (give me your wallet or I will shoot you).
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They still account for 1/3 to 1/2 of all homicides and violent gun crimes...so they're reliable enough to commit crimes, apparently. I don't know how much the POS guns cost retail, but if they only cost $19 to manufacture....then they're probably cheap enough to throw away after committing a serious crime, too.

2) I agree with your last point. They are crappy and are marketed to poor people.
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That warms my heart to hear you say that, TD. ;)
 
Moot said:
They still account for 1/3 to 1/2 of all homicides and violent gun crimes...so they're reliable enough to commit crimes, apparently. I don't know how much the POS guns cost retail, but if they only cost $19 to manufacture....then they're probably cheap enough to throw away after committing a serious crime, too.



That warms my heart to hear you say that, TD. ;)
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimenez_Arms


what is funny is that the Bannerrhoid movement is focused on banning expensive, large well made semi auto rifles when those firearms are rarely used in crime.
 
TurtleDude said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimenez_Arms


what is funny is that the Bannerrhoid movement is focused on banning expensive, large well made semi auto rifles when those firearms are rarely used in crime.
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I was thinking about that...and it makes sense that if someone is going to spend a lot of money for a gun then they're more likely to take better care of it and use it more wisely, too.
 
Moot said:
I was thinking about that...and it makes sense that if someone is going to spend a lot of money for a gun then they're more likely to take better care of it and use it more wisely, too.
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yeah that is most likely true though I watched an heir to the Russian royal family throw a fairly expensive skeet gun in a pond after he lost a skeet match!.
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah that is most likely true though I watched an heir to the Russian royal family throw a fairly expensive skeet gun in a pond after he lost a skeet match!.
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He didn't have to work for it....so it probably didn't mean anything to him.
 
Moot said:
I was thinking about that...and it makes sense that if someone is going to spend a lot of money for a gun then they're more likely to take better care of it and use it more wisely, too.
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in all seriousness it depends. Some rich people I know don't take care of expensive firearms while some people of lesser means, who saved to say buy a nice hunting rifle or trap shotgun treat them very well. an old gentleman from a sharecropper family in the south who worked for three generations of my mother's family, had an old schrade knife my great grandfather had given him during the depression. I remember when I was a boy, he used to take me fishing and he went to clean a bass I caught with that knife. The main blade looked almost like a marlin spike-it had been sharpened so many times most of the steel was gone. Other than that it was immaculate. I asked him why he didn't get a new knife and he explained that it had been a gift from my grandfather-at the time it was an expensive knife, and why get a new one since it still worked fine. He said he oiled it every week and had carried it for 40 years (at the time) . He had one shotgun my GGF had given him as well and it looked like it was new even though I knew he had shot hundreds of rabbits and quail with it. same thing.
 
Moot said:
He didn't have to work for it....so it probably didn't mean anything to him.
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yeah and he was a hot tempered twit who thought he was much better than he was. I used to love kicking his ass at the country club skeet tournament. even worse was when my then 70 year old father beat him
 
TurtleDude said:
in all seriousness it depends. Some rich people I know don't take care of expensive firearms while some people of lesser means, who saved to say buy a nice hunting rifle or trap shotgun treat them very well. an old gentleman from a sharecropper family in the south who worked for three generations of my mother's family, had an old schrade knife my great grandfather had given him during the depression. I remember when I was a boy, he used to take me fishing and he went to clean a bass I caught with that knife. The main blade looked almost like a marlin spike-it had been sharpened so many times most of the steel was gone. Other than that it was immaculate. I asked him why he didn't get a new knife and he explained that it had been a gift from my grandfather-at the time it was an expensive knife, and why get a new one since it still worked fine. He said he oiled it every week and had carried it for 40 years (at the time) . He had one shotgun my GGF had given him as well and it looked like it was new even though I knew he had shot hundreds of rabbits and quail with it. same thing.
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The gifts meant something to him. That's a fine memory to have. I think the depression generation had a whole different way of seeing value in the world. By that I mean they didn't like throwing anything away if it still had usefulness. My great grandfather used to reuse greeting cards. lol
 
TurtleDude said:
yeah and he was a hot tempered twit who thought he was much better than he was. I used to love kicking his ass at the country club skeet tournament. even worse was when my then 70 year old father beat him
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He probably had his own demons to fight...such as always having to wonder if people only liked him for his money.
 
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