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Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience[W:516:1716:2243]

Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

FYI

California gun laws: Jerry Brown signs major new restrictions on firearms owners, rejects others - San Jose Mercury News
California gun laws: Jerry Brown signs major new restrictions on firearms owners, rejects others

“Gov. Jerry Brown this morning took swift action on a sweeping package of bills designed to keep the state's residents safer from deadly gun violence, signing several major new restrictions on firearms owners into law while vetoing others.

The governor announced his decisions less than 24 hours after the Legislature passed a dozen gun bills.

Ignoring Republicans' strident objections, the Assembly on Thursday endorsed legislation previously approved by the Senate that would require background checks to purchase ammunition, ban possession of high-capacity magazines and close a loophole in the state's existing assault weapons ban by prohibiting long guns with "bullet buttons" that make it easier for shooters to swap magazines…………


State gun control law.........What say you?

which does nothing to keep anyone safe but criminals because criminals don't care about his gun laws.
however law abiding citizens do and the only person that they can rely on to defend them is themselves.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

According to the 10th amendment AND Heller; they do.

you evidently didn't read heller.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

nope according to the constitution and to heller decision states cannot ban guns.

That does not explain what was posted............Most if not all states have gun control laws.........

More so, SCOTUS the other day affirmed the right of states to ban certain types of weapons..........
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

which does nothing to keep anyone safe but criminals because criminals don't care about his gun laws.
however law abiding citizens do and the only person that they can rely on to defend them is themselves.

This is not about safe.............it is right to state regulate guns
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

which does nothing to keep anyone safe but criminals because criminals don't care about his gun laws.
however law abiding citizens do and the only person that they can rely on to defend them is themselves.

It isn't about speculating the outcome...........

This subject being discussed in the right of a state to regulate guns
They can and do
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

That explains why I never made any such argument, or even implied any such thing was the case. Unlike you, I have read and analyzed McDonald v. Chicago, in which the Court made very clear that the right to keep and bear arms is fundamental, and that it therefore is incorporated in the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies against the states through that clause. But in holding the law at issue unconstitutional as applied, the Court never said, or even implied, that states could not impose ANY restrictions on the right protected by the Second Amendment. Of course they can.

The specific question here, though, is whether any language in either Heller or McDonald supports your assertion that the measures you proposed would pass constitutional muster. You have shown everyone here that you can't cite any such language--that you are just making a bare assertion that is not supported by legal authority.

The term "straw man" gets tossed around a lot on this site, usually by leftist dim bulbs who hope it will make other posters think they know more than they do. But what you did in the post I'm responding to fits the definition of that illegitimate debating tactic very well. You can't refute the arguments I actually make, so you concoct a ridiculous, easily refuted argument I have never made, falsely attribute it to me, and then proceed to expose that argument as ridiculous. That's just the sort of weak stuff I'd expect from you, having read your other posts.

Well la-dee-da.......

All that typing.........

States can and do regulate guns.........
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

As some here say, states do not have the constitutional right to regulate guns……….
How do yall explain below……..

Gun laws in the United States by state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

State Gun Control Laws
State Gun Control Laws - FindLaw

NRA-ILA Gun Laws
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/

NRA-ILA | State Gun Laws
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/

State Gun Control Laws
State Gun Control Laws

OP is "Treat guns like cars"

And we agree OP is ill informed.

/Thread
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

As some here say, states do not have the constitutional right to regulate guns……….
How do yall explain below……..

Gun laws in the United States by state
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_United_States_by_state

State Gun Control Laws
State Gun Control Laws - FindLaw

NRA-ILA Gun Laws
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/

NRA-ILA | State Gun Laws
https://www.nraila.org/gun-laws/state-gun-laws/

State Gun Control Laws
State Gun Control Laws



Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

“………I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.”


There are lots of reasons why people lie. And without question they lie about guns. But to eliminate the author suggests there is no need to lie if following proposal is implemented which will end all the controversy:



Treat guns like cars.

Mandatory licenses
License renewals
Mandatory training
Mandatory insurance
Operating laws
Operating age limits
Restrict some models
Require safety inspections
Mandatory registration
Background checks
With this, the manufacturers of guns are never held accountable for the actions of people who abuse their products.

Do we have a deal?

Let’s stop acting like there are only 2 sides of this argument. We’re killing each other. Literally.
Please, for the love of logic, stop using outdated ridiculous concepts of tyranny to defend the dying dinosaur that is our 2nd Amendment.
Like it or not, it needs an update”


I think this is a great idea and will go a long way to end the controversy and eliminate the need to lie

SEE:
Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience


Why are you derailing the thread?
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Well la-dee-da.......

All that typing.........

States can and do regulate guns.........


No one but you ever even raised the question whether states could regulate firearms. But the fact they can and do regulate them in certain ways says nothing whatever about whether the particular measures you proposed would pass constitutional muster. Once again, you have shown that you cannot provide one shred of legal authority to support your assertion that they would.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

We get a lot of people from other countries that think we are all gun crazy so people tend to be defensive, it's about rights and freedoms really and hey if other countries want safety over freedoms I respect that, we don't.

I don't think all American gun owners are gun crazy. In great parts of the United States owning a weapon is almost a must (for those living in areas with dangerous wildlife or in areas where police protection is clearly not going to arrive in time) but even then it is up to the people to decide.

And yes, I personally think that absolute rights should not exist in a society and when an enormous group of people agree with common sense gun control issues, congress/states should be free to make such choices. Because it is not absolute, look at this week with 2 court cases, one saying that domestic abusers may be banned from owning guns and just now I read an article in which the court said that the government has the right to ban fully automatic machine guns like an M16 weapons.

But that is the choice of the American public, not mine. I may have opinions about it (just like most people seem to have very extreme ideas about how we in Europe should deal with guns, like calling us sheep and cowards). But again, that is just my personal opinion about gun ownership, not an edict of how people in the US should feel. I do not have the power to do that nor would I want to, not my country and not my decision to make.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

I don't think all American gun owners are gun crazy. In great parts of the United States owning a weapon is almost a must (for those living in areas with dangerous wildlife or in areas where police protection is clearly not going to arrive in time) but even then it is up to the people to decide.

And yes, I personally think that absolute rights should not exist in a society and when an enormous group of people agree with common sense gun control issues, congress/states should be free to make such choices. Because it is not absolute, look at this week with 2 court cases, one saying that domestic abusers may be banned from owning guns and just now I read an article in which the court said that the government has the right to ban fully automatic machine guns like an M16 weapons.

But that is the choice of the American public, not mine. I may have opinions about it (just like most people seem to have very extreme ideas about how we in Europe should deal with guns, like calling us sheep and cowards). But again, that is just my personal opinion about gun ownership, not an edict of how people in the US should feel. I do not have the power to do that nor would I want to, not my country and not my decision to make.

The ban on hand held machine guns clearly violates the second and tenth amendments. there is no rational or valid legal argument to prevent people from owning the same standard issue rifle of our national guard and the rifle many police departments own for self defense in urban areas
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

This is the end of me beating my head against the wall trying to tell folks who think they know what they are talking about just because they think they know what it should be with no need to check it out.......



You started this by making up your own set of laws, and then sticking to your lies

You've posted no proof, no code , no laws other than what you've imagined.

Its the typical " not thinking before you post " Imyoda crap we've had to endure since the day you rolled in here
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

So noted...thanks for the clarification.



I'm happy that your happy.



Ditto!



I for one, am not complaining about your country or your country's agenda/policies. But, I'm unhappy that you think so poorly of gun owners in America....generally speaking.
Gun owning for me is not an obsession, just pure enjoyment, just like my collection of Italian motorcycles. And you know what? Some days are so busy, that I don't have time to think about either of those.....the guns or the bikes.
Tell ya what, you stay there, and I will stay here, and we can all rejoice in our own desires. :peace

I don't think poorly of gun owners in the United States. But when I see someone go on stage proclaiming from my cold dead hands, when there is no power in the US who wants that or is able to do that (second amendment), then I am a bit perplexed at why people make such a kerfuffle about normal gun control issues that do not prevent people from legally owning or purchasing a weapon (like universal background checks).

And I never suggested that the majority of gun owners do nothing but think of their guns, far from it. I love Star Trek, does not mean I think about it everyday. I love my car and driving. I know and realize for a lot of people guns are a hobby, but you cannot deny that for some (again, some, not all, not most, not a large minority) guns are an unhealthy obsession. For most it is just part of their lives. Like Doctor Pol from the TV, he owns guns, so what. They love shooting from time to time, so what, it is their hobby and if they enjoy that, good for them.

But me personally I do not want to own a gun, I do not want to be told that I am a coward/sheep for not wanting guns, just like I do not tell people in other countries that they HAVE to comply with my views on guns. For example, if I would be living in Alaska, the Rocky mountains or bear country, you can bet your bottom dollar I would own a rifle to protect myself and my loved ones. And I would practice and clean it so that I would be able to use it for what I intend to use it for. But I do not live in Alaska and the only dangerous animals we have here are poorly trained dogs. Mostly there are just annoying dogs who bark too much or who poop on my lawn. Live and let live IMHO, but that does not mean we cannot exchange views (if done respectfully IMO).
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

1. Good luck with those "proper authorities." They didn't seem to do a hell of a lot of good at Charlie Hebdo, or in Belgium, or at the other Paris mass murder, or with the African savages who butchered the soldier in England, or with Theo Van Gogh, or last week at the airport in Istanbul, or with a couple dozen other mass murders of unbelievers that those nice refugees you like to help carried out in the name of Allah.

That is a nonsense argument. Murders take place all over the world, terrorist attacks take place all over the world, atrocities take place all over the world. And yes, some happen in countries where the public does not have guns, but a whole crap load of them happen in countries where a lot of people do own guns.

Owning a gun does not protect you from a terror attack at an airport because people are not allowed to carry guns in airports, because those guns could just as easily be used for illegal purposes.

Gun ownership is no protection either from any of these crimes, not from Charlie Hebdo, not Belgium, France, the UK, the US, the Netherlands.

It is virtually impossible to protect a murderer who has made his mind up about wanting to kill somebody. No armed police nor armed civilians will usually stop one person who is really motivated to kill someone.

2. Guns can't prevent terrorist mass murders here, when they are committed in areas where guns are not allowed........... In Israel, on the other hand, Arab jihadists have often been killed by armed civilians before they could get very far along in their murder sprees.

And would owning a gun have protected them for sure? Or would the good guy with the gun have been mowed down by the police when they arrived because they have no idea who is a good guy with a gun or a bad guy with a gun. And terrorist mass murders are a rarity.

Regular shooting sprees however are much more common and they will kill where ever they want to strike.

3. Call it whatever you want. Islamist sons of whores have infested much of Europe, where, true to the supremacist nature of their beliefs,....... If Europeans are foolish enough to commit cultural suicide, that's their lookout. All the same to me.

I am certainly not going to call it what you call it. And supremacist? Sure, you know like white supremacists? Or Christian supremacists? Sadly too may people think they are better than others when usually the truth is in the middle. I hate fundamentalist Islam, but that does not mean I disagree with the fundamental right of people to be free to choose their own religion and practice it. And I am an atheist but still believe that is a fundamental right. But like today it came out that a Wahhabist group had bought a building to house a school in there in according with their strict Islamic views (which prevent integration), who was the first party to protest, right, the social democrat party who wants to scrap the plans for this school. The person who was the spokesperson (and the guy who took the initiative to do so) was Ahmed Marcouch. He is a Muslim himself (or from Muslim descent) and he thinks that people in the Netherlands are too naive about Wahhabism.

You see, just because someone is a Muslim does not make them what you claim they are nor are they infesting Europe.

4. Many Americans are concerned with preserving their individual, fundamental right to keep and bear arms, just as they are concerned with, for example, preserving their individual, fundamental right to free speech. What laws and opinions foreigners choose are up to them. They are the ones who have to live with the consequences of their choices.

You seem I love fundamental rights, but fundamental rights can violate the fundamental rights of others, that is why even fundamental rights cannot be absolute. And sadly I have noticed that there are people in every country (even in my own country) who do not care about fundamental rights but who have become fundamentalists about rights, some are fundamentalist about free speech (like Geert Wilders, but sadly only when he is talking).

Being fundamentalist about rights can be equally disruptive as people who are religious or political fundamentalists. Nothing that say fundamentalist before it IMHO is a good thing.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

The ban on hand held machine guns clearly violates the second and tenth amendments. there is no rational or valid legal argument to prevent people from owning the same standard issue rifle of our national guard and the rifle many police departments own for self defense in urban areas

No, that is your opinion, the supreme court has already decided that it is not protected by the 2nd amendment. There is no rational or valid reason for civilians to own military hardware like M16's. You may not like it and disagree with it but the people who are there to protect the constitution think you are barking up the wrong tree there.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience
Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

“………I also understand and appreciate our Constitution. I’m fully aware of the 2nd Amendment, and how its authors wanted to prevent government tyranny. Considering what they had gone through, they had every right to demand such a thing.”


There are lots of reasons why people lie. And without question they lie about guns. But to eliminate the author suggests there is no need to lie if following proposal is implemented which will end all the controversy:



Treat guns like cars.

Mandatory licenses
License renewals
Mandatory training
Mandatory insurance
Operating laws
Operating age limits
Restrict some models
Require safety inspections
Mandatory registration
Background checks
With this, the manufacturers of guns are never held accountable for the actions of people who abuse their products.

Do we have a deal?

Let’s stop acting like there are only 2 sides of this argument. We’re killing each other. Literally.
Please, for the love of logic, stop using outdated ridiculous concepts of tyranny to defend the dying dinosaur that is our 2nd Amendment.
Like it or not, it needs an update”


I think this is a great idea and will go a long way to end the controversy and eliminate the need to lie

SEE:
Why Gun Nuts Lie ? I Know From Experience


Why are you derailing the thread?

Do you have any idea of what the author was saying. And the style he used................Or even know what my position is?

I don't thinks so..........
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

No one but you ever even raised the question whether states could regulate firearms. But the fact they can and do regulate them in certain ways says nothing whatever about whether the particular measures you proposed would pass constitutional muster. Once again, you have shown that you cannot provide one shred of legal authority to support your assertion that they would.

Fix your wedgey loosen your belt and chill out friend............ Chill...........the proposition was satire.........

BTW

You ain't no lawyer.................
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

You started this by making up your own set of laws, and then sticking to your lies

You've posted no proof, no code , no laws other than what you've imagined.

Its the typical " not thinking before you post " Imyoda crap we've had to endure since the day you rolled in here

Please stop with the stillness........ and do not bother replying.............
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Please stop with the stillness........ and do not bother replying.............

Someone doesn't like being destroyed on his own thread.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

No, that is your opinion, the supreme court has already decided that it is not protected by the 2nd amendment. There is no rational or valid reason for civilians to own military hardware like M16's. You may not like it and disagree with it but the people who are there to protect the constitution think you are barking up the wrong tree there.

The supreme court has never ruled on machine guns. so you are lying. and guess what-civilian police officers have access to those "military hardware" items so again that shows you are wrong.
I find it hilarious that a non citizen is going to lecture me about a document that I spent years studying and have professional credentials concerning its interpretation. Using your silly standards, you will argue there is "no rational reason for civilians to own any firearms

Tell me where the second amendment says that its prohibition on the government ends based on how fast a firearm fires

show me where the federal government was given any powers to ban them
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

Someone doesn't like being destroyed on his own thread.

He gets nuked constantly on the bannerrhoid arguments he spews.
 
Re: Why Gun Nuts Lie - I Know From Experience

This is not about safe.............it is right to state regulate guns

Read what is being responded to it will help you understand context
 
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