• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why do you have to be a gun geek to have an opinion on gun control?

I think of a MK19 automatic 40mm grenade launcher. If you have never seen what a 40mm grenade does to a mud hut, its impressive.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
OpportunityCost said:
Only you would try to make ignorance a virtue then argue it is when shown why it is not. To accomplish your stated goals, you should know about what you are trying to get rid of. Further before you impose on someone else's rights, you should make sure the narrow government need accomplishes that need. This requires knowledge and specificity.

I am not projecting anything, I am not attempting to characterize the opposition by portraying their argument in a certain way. Ardor and zeal?
Click to expand...

I simply explained to you the rights of an American citizen to haver an opinion about matters of public policy. It is sad that you do not respect that.

I remember when I got my degree majoring in Political Science a professor told our senior level class that even though we had a degree in the subject, our opinion at family gatherings, parties, bars, discussions and any other venue would be worth absolutely no more than a mechanic or a waitress or a salesman or anybody else for that matter. When a cardiac surgeon pontificates bout the heart - people listen and defer to them because they have the credentials. When a former ball player talks about the mysteries of hitting the slider - people listen and defer to them because they have the credentials. When your air conditioning guy tells you its not running because parts A and B are shot and need to be replaced - people listen and defer to them because they have the credentials.

But a degree with a major in Political Science makes your opinion no more accepted than somebody who sees old baseball cards at a resale shop.

Get used to it. Such is the nature of a democratic republic.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
Click to expand...

Don't speak for me.
 
Goshin said:
If you wish to remove your fellow citizens' Constitutional rights, you really ought to know a little something about what you are suggesting we ban. At least be able to identify it correctly and accurately and have some notion of what distinguishes it from whatever guns you aren't banning.


It's like someone who wants to ban free speech and doesn't know that libel and slander are already illegal....
Click to expand...

Or someone who wants to ban marijuana and doesn't know that there's already a law against impaired driving.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
Click to expand...


For me, I don't care if someone understands gun lingo - but I would ask you to understand why it is your belief that making guns illegal will stop mass shootings? Time and time again, the evidence supports the facts that guns will be put in the hands of criminals and those who want to commit evil. By making it harder for the law abiding citizens to get guns you've done nothing but make our country a weaker country. Explain how it worked in Paris who does ban handguns of all kinds. Explain how it works in Pakistan and Iran and all of those middle east areas who ban citizens from having guns and then massacre Christians in the street.

For me, that's the education I'd like for all people to have. It seems today, that people are so angry that they just want to argue. They pick a side (let's say the sky is blue side) and even though today it is covered over with clouds, nothing anyone can say will get them to think that they sky really isn't blue that maybe it is white sometimes also.
 
haymarket said:
I do NOT want people driving through my neighborhood sub division going 65 miles per hours.

I do not want people allowed to drive drunk.

I do not want people to keep their drivers license after a certain number of violations for driving violations.

Now despite being born and raised and living my whole life in the Detroit area - I have very little technical information about how an engine actually operates or how a drive train works or how a brake system functions or any number of automotive technical issues that car geeks and shop rats may be far far far more familiar with than I am.

But I still am entitled to have an opinion as an American citizen about speed limits and the other things related to operating a motor vehicle.

And the same is true for guns and the issues of public policy with them.

It is a dishonest fraud of a tactic to try to see if a person knows the secret handshake as one of your own and then criticizing them if they do not.
Click to expand...



Seriously?

That was a huge waste of time and emotion on part, but thanks for documenting my message on opinions.

Good bye.
 
Howler63 said:
You can have an uninformed opinion, but why would you want to?
Click to expand...

as I noted, what causes anti gun opinions among most sheeple is ignorance of gun laws and gun use AND/OR a revulsion of the culture that values gun rights (groups that see white Christian Conservative males as the "enemy" generally are anti gun)

among politicians its all about pandering to those who are ignorant or hate the gun culture. Such groups feel they don't need to know about guns or gun laws
 
TurtleDude said:
if cops need such firepower in our civilian environment, then other civilians ought to be able to own it
Click to expand...
I disagree, TD, because most chances are you will not encounter the same thing that a cop would and you won't be called out to take care of the same number of situations that police would. :shrug:
 
Bob N said:
I disagree, TD, because most chances are you will not encounter the same thing that a cop would and you won't be called out to take care of the same number of situations that police would. :shrug:
Click to expand...

No ... but if your are you would be attacked by an armed assailant without a gun, protective gear, any training or the assistance of other trained officers. If anything the need of a civilian to be armed is even greater.
 
Fearandloathing said:
Seriously?

That was a huge waste of time and emotion on part, but thanks for documenting my message on opinions.

Good bye.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are attempting to say or what that is suppose to mean.
 
haymarket said:
I simply explained to you the rights of an American citizen to haver an opinion about matters of public policy. It is sad that you do not respect that.

I remember when I got my degree majoring in Political Science a professor told our senior level class that even though we had a degree in the subject, our opinion at family gatherings, parties, bars, discussions and any other venue would be worth absolutely no more than a mechanic or a waitress or a salesman or anybody else for that matter. When a cardiac surgeon pontificates bout the heart - people listen and defer to them because they have the credentials. When a former ball player talks about the mysteries of hitting the slider - people listen and defer to them because they have the credentials. When your air conditioning guy tells you its not running because parts A and B are shot and need to be replaced - people listen and defer to them because they have the credentials.

But a degree with a major in Political Science makes your opinion no more accepted than somebody who sees old baseball cards at a resale shop.

Get used to it. Such is the nature of a democratic republic.
Click to expand...

Nothing says desperate argument more than not only being satisfied with the knowledge you lack but using it as a badge of honor and labeling it irrelevant to accomplishing goals while trampling the rights of others affected by said ignorance.

You don't have a factual argument because you don't have any facts to present, just wild emotion and a desperate need to "do something".
 
Bob N said:
I disagree, TD, because most chances are you will not encounter the same thing that a cop would and you won't be called out to take care of the same number of situations that police would. :shrug:
Click to expand...

We live among the criminals every day. Just because we arent addressing them in some law enforcement capacity doesnt mean we have fewer encounters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Aberration said:
We live among the criminals every day. Just because we arent addressing them in some law enforcement capacity doesnt mean we have fewer encounters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
I don't know about you but I live a nice life without guns or criminals. :shrug:
 
blaxshep said:
No ... but if your are you would be attacked by an armed assailant without a gun, protective gear, any training or the assistance of other trained officers. If anything the need of a civilian to be armed is even greater.
Click to expand...
That has happened to me like me needing to keep a pipe wrench on me because I never know when I may need to fix a pipe. And it wouldn't surprise me to know that I would need the pipe wrench before the gun. ;)
 
Bob N said:
I don't know about you but I live a nice life without guns or criminals. :shrug:
Click to expand...

I live a nice life with guns and criminals. You have no idea who is a criminal or not.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Bob N said:
That has happened to me like me needing to keep a pipe wrench on me because I never know when I may need to fix a pipe. And it wouldn't surprise me to know that I would need the pipe wrench before the gun. ;)
Click to expand...

You'll probably need that pipe wrench before you'll need a fire extinguisher too so why have one.
 
blaxshep said:
You'll probably need that pipe wrench before you'll need a fire extinguisher too so why have one.
Click to expand...
And that, Sir, is my point.
 
Bob N said:
I disagree, TD, because most chances are you will not encounter the same thing that a cop would and you won't be called out to take care of the same number of situations that police would. :shrug:
Click to expand...

that's patently false given that cops confront criminals usually on the cops' terms while honest citizens have no warning when a criminal attack will happen. Citizens shoot more criminals each year than cops do
citizens miss less than cops do
citizens are less likely to shoot the wrong person

as blaxshep correctly notes in post 260, we citizens rarely are

wearing body armor
a uniform that commands respect and often causes others to aid us
a radio for backup
far faster response times than other citizens

who do you think will get assistance faster

a citizen calling a 911 operator (Operator there are three men breaking down my door)

or a police officer or deputy sheriff shouting to a dispatcher OFFICER NEEDS ASSISTANCE SHOTS FIRED
 
Bob N said:
I don't know about you but I live a nice life without guns or criminals. :shrug:
Click to expand...


I believe the neighbors of that family in a wealthy connecticut area said the same thing-the one where the father was knocked unconscious, his wife and two daughters raped and sodomized, the mother forced to withdraw money from the bank (why she didn't tell the bank what was going on was a stupid mistake that cost her her life), and then all three women murdered-the two daughters burned alive. when I was mugged, I was apparently the first attempted mugging in a safe college area in years. I was also the last for a ten year period since the Mope was shot and his would be emulators were educated on how many people had carry permits in the area.

Sharon Tate and the LaBiancas also lived nice lives in a peaceful area too. that worked out really well for the Manson family. IN a tough neighborhood, chances they would have been shot, shanked, garroted or worse
 
TurtleDude said:
I believe the neighbors of that family in a wealthy connecticut area said the same thing-the one where the father was knocked unconscious, his wife and two daughters raped and sodomized, the mother forced to withdraw money from the bank (why she didn't tell the bank what was going on was a stupid mistake that cost her her life), and then all three women murdered-the two daughters burned alive. when I was mugged, I was apparently the first attempted mugging in a safe college area in years. I was also the last for a ten year period since the Mope was shot and his would be emulators were educated on how many people had carry permits in the area.

Sharon Tate and the LaBiancas also lived nice lives in a peaceful area too. that worked out really well for the Manson family. IN a tough neighborhood, chances they would have been shot, shanked, garroted or worse
Click to expand...
Yeah. But there are still numerous daily incidents where things do not happen as well.
 
Bob N said:
Yeah. But there are still numerous daily incidents where things do not happen as well.
Click to expand...

most people drive their cars each day and don't get into an accident

most peoples' homes don't catch on fire

Most people don't come down with a life threatening disease
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?
Click to expand...

Ignorance is not a good place to argue the merits of anything from. For example what do you know about gun control? Who funds it? What are the goals?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?
Click to expand...

Killing many people has never been a problem for those who want to. Hutu Rwanda 800,000 machete.

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?
Click to expand...

If he had a muzzle loader given the time it took the cops he could have fired as many shots. See the necessity for a good education. His desire to kill was not fuelled or controlled by having certain guns. What kind of education assumes that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!
Click to expand...

You appear to have skipped school and gone to the movies a lot.

Auto firearms fire continuously and have only ever been used in two crimes. All semi-auto firearms, handguns, rifle, carbine and shotguns fire one shot per trigger pull so there are plenty to select from.

That point about education becoming clearer now?

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
Click to expand...

It is always somebody else's fault, never your own. How do you feel about oppressing people because of beliefs in lies?
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
Click to expand...

You cannot logically call for restrictions upon things you show zero understanding about.
 
Rather Luddite of you. A properly prepared law understands the need to be precise in the language and to think about unintended consequences. I doubt that writing a law that states that " guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW!" are legal and guns that go "ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta " are illegal will be effective.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom