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Why do you have to be a gun geek to have an opinion on gun control?

Bob N said:
Machine guns are illegal to own, but I'll bet you still have your guns that are legal, right?
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So your logic as long as you are allowed to own some type of firearms then your rights haven't been infringed on,even if the government did take away the guns you did own?
 
Bob N said:
Machine guns are illegal to own, but I'll bet you still have your guns that are legal, right?
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No the're not.

But yes, I still have my legal guns. I intend to keep them. I intend to carry them.

I own no so called assault weapons. I just don't care for them. But I'll never willingly give up my right to keep and bear them.
 
Bob N said:
I won't argue the taxation, James, but I will argue that the state is coming in to take your guns.

Haven't seen that one yet.
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I guess you missed this recent article discussed in this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...-first-state-put-gun-owners-fbi-database.html

...allows Hawaii police to be notified (by FBI) when a Hawaii firearm owner is arrested anywhere in the U.S.. In addition, the law allows Hawaii police to evaluate whether a firearm owner should continue owning a gun after being arrested.
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Hawaii Becomes First State to Put Gun Owners in FBI Database

Hawaii requires registration of firearms, and now intends to use it as a method of confiscation.

California already has this law in place and in practice;

The California state legislature passed a bill Thursday approving $24 million to expedite the confiscation of the estimated 40,000 handguns and assault weapons illegally owned by Californians....California DOJ’s Armed Prohibited Persons System (APPS) program, which began in 2007. APPS cross-references various databases to check people who have legally purchased handguns and registered assault weapons since 1996 against individuals who are prohibited from owning or possessing firearms.
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California Gun Confiscation Bill Passes, Approves $24 Million To Expedite Illegal Gun Seizure

Registration serves only one purpose, to identify who owns what type of gun to allow for future confiscation.
 
jimbo said:
All weapons capable of firing more than one round with a single trigger pull and manufactured since 1986 are banned. Possession of those grandfathered are heavily regulated.
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I knew about that. I did say earlier that some guns should be regulated while some banned. James asked my opinion so I gave it.

jimbo said:
You're demonstrating a lack of knowledge of guns and gun laws.
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The subject of this thread. Excellent. I drive a car that I didn't design, build or tear apart and put back together. I still honestly believe that someone should have an opinion on it. :roll:
 
Captain Adverse said:
I guess you missed this recent article discussed in this thread:

http://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-c...-first-state-put-gun-owners-fbi-database.html



Hawaii Becomes First State to Put Gun Owners in FBI Database

Hawaii requires registration of firearms, and now intends to use it as a method of confiscation.

California already has this law in place and in practice;



California Gun Confiscation Bill Passes, Approves $24 Million To Expedite Illegal Gun Seizure

Registration serves only one purpose, to identify who owns what type of gun to allow for future confiscation.
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Why worry? If you belong to the 99.9% of responsible gun owners that Hawaiian law should not make you lose any sleep.
 
jimbo said:
No the're not.

But yes, I still have my legal guns. I intend to keep them. I intend to carry them.

I own no so called assault weapons. I just don't care for them. But I'll never willingly give up my right to keep and bear them.
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You go walk down the street with a workable automatic and see what happens.
 
Bob N said:
Why worry? If you belong to the 99.9% of responsible gun owners that Hawaiian law should not make you lose any sleep.
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You asked for examples, and I gave you TWO examples currently existing in the USA.

Bob N said:
I won't argue the taxation, James, but I will argue that the state is coming in to take your guns.

Haven't seen that one yet.
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The Brady Act created a gun sales background check which currently lists NINE reasons to deny a person the ability to purchase a firearm, only three of which have any connection to the conviction of a violent crime or civil commitment to a mental institution. The list can be amended by Congress to add any other causes to prevent the purchase of a gun. The only loophole, which gun control advocates keep trying to close, is that this only pertains to licensed dealers or un-licensed sales across state lines. (Commerce Clause restrictions).

Requiring registration means that at any time, for any new reason, weapons which become restricted/banned can then be confiscated from their owners. There is no other purpose for registering firearms.

Two states are already either doing this or about to start doing it. I will not matter if one is a "responsible owner," you become a criminal if you resist such confiscation or purchase and fail to register a firearm.
 
Bob N said:
I knew about that. I did say earlier that some guns should be regulated while some banned. James asked my opinion so I gave it.

The subject of this thread. Excellent. I drive a car that I didn't design, build or tear apart and put back together. I still honestly believe that someone should have an opinion on it. :roll:
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Actually, you're arguments seem more like driving an automobile without knowledge of the laws, not the inner workings of the fuel injection system.

Among other things, you also stated this:

Machine guns are illegal to own.

Now you say you knew that's incorrect.

Most gun owners have little knowledge of how machine guns work. It's not important. Most do have a knowledge of gun laws.

We are debating. Way back in high school my debating coach stressed that the single most important thing in a debate is knowledge of the subject. Otherwise you tend to contradict yourself and are unable to make a meaningful rebuttal to the opposition's points. You are arguing otherwise and proving my debate coach correct.
 
Bob N said:
You go walk down the street with a workable automatic and see what happens.
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If I walk down the street with a workable automatic which I am carrying properly and with the legal permits, I may be stopped, some anti gun weenie may call the cops, but I'll have every right to do so.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
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Opinions made in ignorance and ideological hatred don't tend to be the best way to guide sound policy decisions.

Otherwise, no reason.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?
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if you want to remain ignorant in an area that is your choice we simply dismiss your opinion as uninformed and leave it at that.

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?
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You can do that with many things should we ban those as well? appeal to emotion is a fallacy not an argument.

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?
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Their are far more people killed every day buy hand guns than anything else. in fact most of those are suicides. only 1% of murders are mass shootings like you cited.

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!
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Well the guns they had don't go like that this is where being educated helps in knowing what you are talking about.
you opinion of what people need or don't need is irrelevant.

all guns are for possible killing it depends on what the person does with it.
again your opinion is your opinion.

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
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no you just proved your lack of knowledge is a problem.
 
Bob N said:
I knew about that. I did say earlier that some guns should be regulated while some banned. James asked my opinion so I gave it.

The subject of this thread. Excellent. I drive a car that I didn't design, build or tear apart and put back together. I still honestly believe that someone should have an opinion on it. :roll:
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sure you can have an opinion but at least be informed of what you are talking about.

otherwise this happens.

 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
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When discussing rate of fire it is important to to define pow pow and ta ta. All semi-auto guns fire one round per one trigger pull. How many pows or tas may occur before reloading (magazine capacity) is a separate issue. What is it, exactly, that you wish to limit?
 
ludin said:
sure you can have an opinion but at least be informed of what you are talking about.

otherwise this happens.

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Did you know that most guys that race cars real well don't know diddly about their cars; that's why they have mechanics. But those drivers still drive just great.

Looking at this from a gun standpoint, most of the nuts that go kill people probably don't know diddly about their weapons either. But they're still successful killing and harming innocent people.

So I really believe that maybe you are just over complicating this subject. :shrug:
 
Bob N said:
Did you know that most guys that race cars real well don't know diddly about their cars; that's why they have mechanics. But those drivers still drive just great.

Looking at this from a gun standpoint, most of the nuts that go kill people probably don't know diddly about their weapons either. But they're still successful killing and harming innocent people.

So I really believe that maybe you are just over complicating this subject. :shrug:
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True, if you want to kill people faster use two pistols, two fingers pulling the trigger and no gun grabbers going after your weapons.
 
blaxshep said:
True, if you want to kill people faster use two pistols, two fingers pulling the trigger and no gun grabbers going after your weapons.
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Dual wielding is a good way to not hit anything though.....
 
Bob N said:
I disagree, TD, because most chances are you will not encounter the same thing that a cop would and you won't be called out to take care of the same number of situations that police would. :shrug:
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Really? Do you think police show up and then the shooting starts, me thinks you do not realize most shootings take place and are over before the police even arrive. Most LEO's are not using select fire AR's but simply semiautomatic rifles and their handgun, heck I have as much firepower as they do as do many citizens. Let me ask this if someone is trusted to carry a select fire rifle for years and years as a LEO or Soldier should that person still be trusted after they retire, or is their some magic line they cross that makes them no longer trust worthy?
 
Bob N said:
Did you know that most guys that race cars real well don't know diddly about their cars; that's why they have mechanics. But those drivers still drive just great.

Looking at this from a gun standpoint, most of the nuts that go kill people probably don't know diddly about their weapons either. But they're still successful killing and harming innocent people.

So I really believe that maybe you are just over complicating this subject. :shrug:
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You missed the entire point and ended up with a gallo 24.

Not over complicating it at all. If you know nothing about guns except guns are bad because I don't like them, then you are going to run into problems.
 
"Why do you have to be a gun geek to have an opinion on gun control?"

Obviously, you don't. I don't know anyone who says you have to be an expert on firearms to have an opinion. It's no different than anything else. You don't have to be a woman to have an opinion on abortion. You don't have to be black to have an opinion of the effect of black culture on children. You don't have to be a liberal to have an opinion on what liberal politicians have done to our cities. And, of course, you don't have to be a citizen to have an opinion on who you should vote for in the election.

But, when someone gets into a discussion and doesn't have a clue what they're talking about it does sometimes make their opinion laughable. But, they can still have their opinion.
 
Patrickt said:
"Why do you have to be a gun geek to have an opinion on gun control?"

Obviously, you don't. I don't know anyone who says you have to be an expert on firearms to have an opinion. It's no different than anything else. You don't have to be a woman to have an opinion on abortion. You don't have to be black to have an opinion of the effect of black culture on children. You don't have to be a liberal to have an opinion on what liberal politicians have done to our cities. And, of course, you don't have to be a citizen to have an opinion on who you should vote for in the election.

But, when someone gets into a discussion and doesn't have a clue what they're talking about it does sometimes make their opinion laughable. But, they can still have their opinion.
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on this board and others, many people assume that because they have a right to utter an opinion, that means their opinion should be treated with the same respect as those opinions proffered by people who actually know what they are talking about. Its sort of populism for the ignorant
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
I'm getting so tired of right wingers telling me I need to educate myself on guns in order to have an opinion on gun legislation. I don't care anything about learning about those awful killing machines any more than I care about learning about medieval torture devices. I couldn't care less what the difference is between a semi-automatic and an automatic or what the difference between the Child Killer 6000 and the Arab Impaler 7500 guns. Honestly, what does it matter?

Haven't we gone too far when we can own weapons that kill 50 people?

If Omar Mateen had had one of those guns that go POW! click-click POW! click-click POW! could he have killed 50 people? Could Adam Lanza have shot a classroom full of children with a gun like that?

The kind of guns that go ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta-ta and fire lots of bullets really quickly need to go. You don't need it to hunt and you don't need it to defend your home. These guns are for killing and should not be in the possession of civilians!

We liberal's lack of knowledge of guns is just a red herring.
Click to expand...

I feel you, but...

 
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