Why do so many hate guns/constitution?

jet57 · Apr 9, 2016

joG said:
You can't go home again.

You build the home you want to live in.

matchlight · Apr 9, 2016

Gaugingcatenate said:
So, you are saying in European wartime, there is none of that you killing others stuff going on, eh? Gosh, you folks are really really sophisticated then, if that is true. I have heard it from validated sources that, however, that is not quite the case. More like tens of millions were killed by others. You don't get a time out exclusion just because you folks have such horrific bloodletting known as wars.

And that is what you said originally about the high numbers, right, killing of oneself and others?

You hide, try, behind rules you do not get to make up. Fact is, more people violently kill other people in Europe than we ever even thought about here.

Undeniable.

Gawlee, them Eurapeons sure are sophisticated! They don't jest go throwin' a gun at somebody, doin' their killin' one at a time! No sir, they go the whole hawg! Look at them Englishmen, usin' thousands of tons of bombs to wipe out them Germans, whole cities at a crack! 'Course we-uns done more n' a mite o' that too, but them Englishmen had us beat hands down, when it come to sheer numbers.

joG · Apr 9, 2016

jet57 said:
That's exactly what it is. Our priorities are focused on what the next fantastic thing Apple is going to put out, rather then building K-12 education. "Fighting ISIS" rather than very closely examining what gets groups like ISIS going in the first place and then making course corrections. Charging $750 for a pill that costs $2 to make. Feeding the stock market rather than creating a market that feeds US. I mean, it just goes on and on and American politics is just another game on the merry go round.

I tend to think we might expand our search for driving forces.

joG · Apr 9, 2016

jet57 said:
You build the home you want to live in.

That is, what we have been doing step by step in one direction since fdr

jet57 · Apr 9, 2016

joG said:
That is, what we have been doing step by step in one direction since fdr

Sure, but were not handling the termites.

jet57 · Apr 9, 2016

joG said:
I tend to think we might expand our search for driving forces.

The driving forces need to be exposed for public scrutiny, but nobody's handling that.

joG · Apr 9, 2016

jet57 said:
The driving forces need to be exposed for public scrutiny, but nobody's handling that.

The research is probably being done to some extent. But the politicians are not. The public doesn't want them to. They want to go further down the spiral. That is because most believe that it is progressive.

Crimefree · Apr 9, 2016

matchlight said:
Gawlee, them Eurapeons sure are sophisticated! They don't jest go throwin' a gun at somebody, doin' their killin' one at a time! No sir, they go the whole hawg! Look at them Englishmen, usin' thousands of tons of bombs to wipe out them Germans, whole cities at a crack! 'Course we-uns done more n' a mite o' that too, but them Englishmen had us beat hands down, when it come to sheer numbers.

Well they taught the world a lesson in religious tolerance with 700 years of coexistence with peaceful scholars and vegetarians. Of course to justify this they had to call them something else and demonise and dehumanise. That gave them the right to grab them and celebrate with a nice big fire with them all gathered around singing, clapping and dancing. Some the taunts and comment at the centrepiece other threw stone to show their anger that such a person dared to live with them. While the fire burnt they were driven to new heights of frenzy as the "heretic" tied to the stake watched themselves being burnt alive. Not content with just burning alive they confiscated all their wealth. The trials and laws were really interesting as well giving ample opportunity for heretics to defend themselves and offer them physiotherapy while in prison to show how kind they were and serious about giving them a chance to repent. How wonderful it must have been to receive such kindness of stretching exercises and other methods of repairing physical defects so they could be perfect physical specimens.

As a further act of kindness they helped them clean house ridding them of all distractive books that they could become better educated and not get funny ideas. To sell this idea to their helpers and cohorts they called it a crusade and gave the world a new name from the organisation that promoted it, "propaganda" was born.

I have an idea of they have not lost the taste of burning people at the stake and ganging up on others they don't like. Was one of their representatives some Moron or Mogon character, not recently seen on TV frothing hatred and urging punishing those who were an abomination in his eyes. Saying how peaceful those Europeans were and everybody should be like them

matchlight · Apr 9, 2016

Crimefree said:
Well they taught the world a lesson in religious tolerance with 700 years of coexistence with peaceful scholars and vegetarians. Of course to justify this they had to call them something else and demonise and dehumanise. That gave them the right to grab them and celebrate with a nice big fire with them all gathered around singing, clapping and dancing. Some the taunts and comment at the centrepiece other threw stone to show their anger that such a person dared to live with them. While the fire burnt they were driven to new heights of frenzy as the "heretic" tied to the stake watched themselves being burnt alive. Not content with just burning alive they confiscated all their wealth. The trials and laws were really interesting as well giving ample opportunity for heretics to defend themselves and offer them physiotherapy while in prison to show how kind they were and serious about giving them a chance to repent. How wonderful it must have been to receive such kindness of stretching exercises and other methods of repairing physical defects so they could be perfect physical specimens.

As a further act of kindness they helped them clean house ridding them of all distractive books that they could become better educated and not get funny ideas. To sell this idea to their helpers and cohorts they called it a crusade and gave the world a new name from the organisation that promoted it, "propaganda" was born.

I have an idea of they have not lost the taste of burning people at the stake and ganging up on others they don't like. Was one of their representatives some Moron or Mogon character, not recently seen on TV frothing hatred and urging punishing those who were an abomination in his eyes. Saying how peaceful those Europeans were and everybody should be like them

It's pretty clear that many Europeans and other foreigners who post on sites like this one envy and resent the United States. That envy and resentment, part of which I think comes from the realization that their countries are no longer very relevant in world affairs, usually takes the form of pretending to be more cosmopolitan and sophisticated than us Americans.

Gaugingcatenate · Apr 9, 2016

matchlight said:
Gawlee, them Eurapeons sure are sophisticated! They don't jest go throwin' a gun at somebody, doin' their killin' one at a time! No sir, they go the whole hawg! Look at them Englishmen, usin' thousands of tons of bombs to wipe out them Germans, whole cities at a crack! 'Course we-uns done more n' a mite o' that too, but them Englishmen had us beat hands down, when it come to sheer numbers.

I think the Germans and the Soviets did the majority of the killing in WW2. I think the Soviet people lost was around 17 million. So probably the Germans were the most skilled at killing others in the war.

The English and we Americans didn't lose near the people either one of those two did. But sure, we Americans make you hurt bad, I think on average about 10 killed from the other side to our one lost. Good for deterrence, people that decide to go up against us know we will make them hurt. Probably just this has stopped a lot of aggression in places where we might decide to get involved.

Fact of the matter is, yes, whole lotta killing going on over there 'cross the pond. They live in a glass house and forget the rocks, they are tossing bombs and using the big guns... oh, and good old Zyklon B. I mean really, who needs guns, eh?

EMNofSeattle · Apr 9, 2016

Glen Contrarian said:
Huh? Are you looking at a poll showing that more gun buyers should get background checks and somehow equating that with a desire to ban guns?

You yourself have argued right here on DP that bolt action hunting rifles should be banned as too dangerous, so you have no credibility trying to play moderate

Goshin · Apr 9, 2016

Bucky said:
Roughly 1/4 in America believes that non policemen/authorized person should be able to carry a handgun. This idea clearly goes against the constitution and supports a police-state. I am simply trying to understand the rational to banning guns. How does it make us more safe?

View attachment 67199972

Most Americans Agree With Obama That More Gun Buyers Should Get Background Checks | FiveThirtyEight

Don't try to rationalize it, because it isn't rational.

Often it is because they fear their own capacity for violence and project it onto others. Some are genuine hoplophobes. Some are mislead by the propaganda.

flogger · Apr 9, 2016

Gaugingcatenate said:
So, you are saying in European wartime, there is none of that you killing others stuff going on, eh? Gosh, you folks are really really sophisticated then, if that is true. I have heard it from validated sources that, however, that is not quite the case. More like tens of millions were killed by others. You don't get a time out exclusion just because you folks have such horrific bloodletting known as wars.

And that is what you said originally about the high numbers, right, killing of oneself and others?

You hide, try, behind rules you do not get to make up. Fact is, more people violently kill other people in Europe than we ever even thought about here.

Undeniable.

No I'm saying you are trying to justify your peacetime casualties using our wartime ones. Nothing more

TurtleDude · Apr 9, 2016

jet57 said:
It's the gun obsession these days; it's more of a political movement than anything else. Moreover the gangs in this country are going rather crazy and their shopping list for guns if getting larger and larger due to the proliferation. Gangs are not headed like they were, they're more of a lose tribe of renegades without the organization they once had, so territorial fighting is more frequent and brutal. Most of the gangs today are controlled by outside cartels anyway.

On the other hand we have the "second amendment rights" people trying to free more and more weapons and high capacity magazines etc, which just floods the market, and we see things like gangs robbing gun stores, we see that they're not getting away with just cap guns. One of the contributing factors in this is this "Black lives matter" sort of business wherein cops have to be extremely careful in order to keep their jobs, so gang members in urban areas really have the upper hand. The whole gang thing i a counter culture that needs to be brought down in order to clean up the streets.

so many silly lies on so few sentences

TurtleDude · Apr 9, 2016

EMNofSeattle said:
You yourself have argued right here on DP that bolt action hunting rifles should be banned as too dangerous, so you have no credibility trying to play moderate

his arguments are a classic example of the "public safety facade" serving as a pretext for a political desire to stick it to the NRA and conservative pro gun voters

Gaugingcatenate · Apr 9, 2016

flogger said:
No I'm saying you are trying to justify your peacetime casualties using our wartime ones. Nothing more

I am comparing the two regions. One has vastly more indefensible killings of others than the other, your side of the pond. I am saying it may just have to do with your side not allowing the people to control their governments like we have been able since gaining our Independence and establishing our Constitutional right to bear arms. You folks still have not learned your lessons, and truthfully, we have grown a little tired of pulling your butts outta the fire when your ideologies go sour and the bloodthirsty start going at each other like you have proven time and time again to so often do. If left to your own devices.

So, I have to frown when Europeans start preaching their holier than thou thoughts on gun control. I think the only above reproach group in your midst are the Swiss. They don't start or get involved in wars...and we all know what their philosophy has been on gun ownership. Only Liechtenstein and Monaco have lower intentional homicide rates in Western Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate

matchlight · Apr 9, 2016

Gaugingcatenate said:
I think the Germans and the Soviets did the majority of the killing in WW2. I think the Soviet people lost was around 17 million. So probably the Germans were the most skilled at killing others in the war.

The English and we Americans didn't lose near the people either one of those two did. But sure, we Americans make you hurt bad, I think on average about 10 killed from the other side to our one lost. Good for deterrence, people that decide to go up against us know we will make them hurt. Probably just this has stopped a lot of aggression in places where we might decide to get involved.

Fact of the matter is, yes, whole lotta killing going on over there 'cross the pond. They live in a glass house and forget the rocks, they are tossing bombs and using the big guns... oh, and good old Zyklon B. I mean really, who needs guns, eh?

You're probably right about who did the most killing in that war. And I know that this country's armed forces killed quite a few times as many enemy troops as the 400,000 or so of its own that were killed. Plus a million or more enemy civilians who were helping their war efforts. The only times the U.S. military has not been very successful have been when it was forced, because of a lack of will to win here at home, to fight with one hand tied behind its back.

Statists generally loathe the Constitution of the U.S., and they especially loathe the individual American's fundamental right to keep and bear arms. Whether these collectivists live here or in Europe, they are pretty much birds of a feather. They have a taste for totalitarian government and a distaste for individual liberties--except, of course, for the ones they happen to want for themselves.

flogger · Apr 10, 2016

Gaugingcatenate said:
I am comparing the two regions.

No you are comparing war with peace in an attempt to justify your domestic gun deaths

I think the only above reproach group in your midst are the Swiss.

Yes the guys who Still lose thirteen times as many people as we do per capita to domestic firearms :wink:

Gaugingcatenate · Apr 10, 2016

flogger said:
No you are comparing war with peace in an attempt to justify your domestic gun deaths

Yes the guys who Still lose thirteen times as many people as we do per capita to domestic firearms :wink:

And so, conversely, you are trying to hide your exponentially enormous killings of each other in order to appear as though your overall system of gun control works better than ours. What a farce

What is a true farce is that you seem to only care about gun related deaths. Your country has almost twice the intentional homicide rate as the Swiss. Why are you so focused on this one method so? Liberal brainwashing. And that was in 2011, try taking it back to say, 1940, how many people were intentionally being killed then?

Crimefree · Apr 10, 2016

joG said:
The research is probably being done to some extent. But the politicians are not. The public doesn't want them to. They want to go further down the spiral. That is because most believe that it is progressive.

If one could get past the deliberate hiding of the funding of gun control maybe the head of the organisation could be seen of this secret cabal that is determined to disarm any opposition to its plans.

Do you know who funds gun control? If not why not. What do you think that means?

Crimefree · Apr 10, 2016

Gaugingcatenate said:
And so, conversely, you are trying to hide your exponentially enormous killings of each other in order to appear as though your overall system of gun control works better than ours. What a farce

What is a true farce is that you seem to only care about gun related deaths. Your country has almost twice the intentional homicide rate as the Swiss. Why are you so focused on this one method so? Liberal brainwashing. And that was in 2011, try taking it back to say, 1940, how many people were intentionally being killed then?

They have come up with this lovely idea that Swiss serving the military should not be counted because every fit male under the age of 43 is serving the military and has an automatic rifle which may be used. Ammunition is sponsored by the government for it. And when finished the rifle can be purchased in semi-auto form.

As for UK it is a basket case. Within a few years of passing the ban crime had sky-rocketed 300% forcing parliament to admit crime was out of control. The home office got in structured to do something and did. The started to munge, massage and fudge the crime figures.

Parliament passed over 3000 new anti-crime laws and made even less difference. You cannot reduce crime with a law, that is way beyond idiotic. Only a cretin or government toady would believe that.

flogger · Apr 10, 2016

Gaugingcatenate said:
And so, conversely, you are trying to hide your exponentially enormous killings of each other in order to appear as though your overall system of gun control works better than ours. What a farce

What enormous killings would those be then ? The ones that are per capita one fifth of yours maybe ? :wink:

What is a true farce is that you seem to only care about gun related deaths.

Given that the great bulk of your homicides and suicides involve their use its a legitimate concern. Why isn't it for you ?

Your country has almost twice the intentional homicide rate as the Swiss.

And Interestingly some 72% of Switzerlands homicides involve the use of a gun, a figure very similar to the US. How much better still would that Swiss homicide rate look minus their gun killings do you think ?

Gun homicides and gun ownership listed by country | News | The Guardian

Why are you so focused on this one method so? Liberal brainwashing.

Because it is by far the most lethal and avoidable. I couldn't care less about the politics. Bullets don't make such distinctions when they hit you

Crimefree · Apr 10, 2016

flogger said:
What enormous killings would those be then ? The ones that are per capita one fifth of yours maybe ? :wink:

No He mean you out of control violent crime and nobody now knows what the British homicide are becasue 3 murders in the same house will be counted as ONE CRIME. How many more times must I tell you to stop posting blatantly fraudulent figures,. The UN posted a better figure from different government sources. It's hard for government to hide the bodies, so mortuary reports are far more accurate.

You are posting disingenuous and blatantly fraudulent propaganda. Desist. You have been found out.

Given that the great bulk of your homicides and suicides involve their use its a legitimate concern. Why isn't it for you ?

Given that it must be a small mind indeed that is enamoured by the idea that a country with fewer guns has less firearm suicides and a country with more firearms has more. Would it surprise you to know that a county with no motor vehicles has no motor vehicle deaths?

It seems to me deduction is not one of your strong points and claiming the obvious as some kind of proof is simply dishonest and you know that. Why does it not worry you in the least?

And Interestingly some 72% of Switzerlands homicides involve the use of a gun, a figure very similar to the US. How much better still would that Swiss homicide rate look minus their gun killings do you think ?

Obvious propaganda. False emotion appeal and argument.

See what I mean. Proof based on fraud as blatant and dishonest as can be without a care in the world or a twinge of shame.

Because it is by far the most lethal and avoidable. I couldn't care less about the politics. Bullets don't make such distinctions when they hit you

Emotional appeal false and unevidenced as all your statements are. Why do you appeal to emotion thinking is is great debating? It simply shows a level of indoctrination that has no substantive facts to back it up.

What you are actually saying is I do not care what the facts are and you keep proving that with every sentence you write.

Glen Contrarian · Apr 10, 2016

EMNofSeattle said:
You yourself have argued right here on DP that bolt action hunting rifles should be banned as too dangerous, so you have no credibility trying to play moderate

FALSE! I have NEVER said that! What I have said is that .50 cal Barrett sniper rifles should not be available to the public, but I have NEVER said that about regular everyday hunting rifles, whether bolt-action or semi-auto.

Next time, you really should rely on facts instead of thinking that if a thing sounds likely to you, then it must be true.

TurtleDude · Apr 10, 2016

Glen Contrarian said:
FALSE! I have NEVER said that! What I have said is that .50 cal Barrett sniper rifles should not be available to the public, but I have NEVER said that about regular everyday hunting rifles, whether bolt-action or semi-auto.

Next time, you really should rely on facts instead of thinking that if a thing sounds likely to you, then it must be true.

so you are on record as wanting to ban a type of firearm-one that has no use in criminal enterprises to date

so tell us Glen-where do you draw the line

338 Lapua Magnum
416?

the biggest problem is once you are on record for wanting to ban something-ban something that is almost never used improperly, where do you stop?

Why do so many hate guns/constitution?

jet57

matchlight

joG

joG

jet57

jet57

joG

Crimefree

matchlight

Gaugingcatenate

EMNofSeattle

No Russian ever called me deplorable

Goshin

Burned Out Ex-Mod

flogger

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

TurtleDude

warrior of the wetlands

Gaugingcatenate

matchlight

flogger

Gaugingcatenate

Crimefree

Crimefree

flogger

Crimefree

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