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Folding Gun Looks Like Cell Phone

Paleocon said:
It's a gun designed to look like an innocuous item. It's introduction into circulation will serve to make police more weary, and it will give an advantage to criminals. Can you see any legitimate need of this that couldn't be satisfied by a normal handgun?
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How would it give them an advantage, criminals are not allowed to own guns, there are laws against that................
 
Dragonfly said:
You don't see any problems with it?
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I can see someone causing problems with it but that alone is not sufficient to Ban it.

might give a mugging victim a chance to get the drop on a mope
 
JANFU said:
Then we will have more dead people. And the Officer will be fully justified.
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you mean if someone pulls it out and points it at a cop?

or if someone pulls his cell phone out and points it at a cop after a cop says FREEZE?

or after a cop shoots someone wrongfully and finds one of these devices in the slain person's pocket and uses it as a justification for shooting someone improperly?
 
Paleocon said:
Terrible idea. The ATF shouldn't allow this to be produced.
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on what grounds

at one time a holster that looked like a wallet was banned. I guess the ATF clowns didn't want someone to shoot a mugger with what appeared to be a wallet

criminals mainly carry guns to

1) intimidate victims into complying

2) shooting other criminals

this weapon doesn't serve either purpose very well
 
reinoe said:
It is if terrorists want to sneak it past metal detectors.
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if something alerts a metal detector it gets examined.

do you know what a belt buckle knife is? believe me every cop I have worked with knows what they are. in one squad room there was a poster showing how to ID one based on which "hole" in the belt was attached to the stud
 
Crosscheck said:
This enters that gray zone. On one hand you can say that the cellphone gun is designed to keep it hidden which is exactly what the small derringer is designed for.

But with episodes of someone getting shot because they were holding a realistic looking toy gun it is not hard to foresee some difficult problems for law enforcement.

Since we do have small pistols and holsters for carrying them concealed I really don't see any need for this product. It is as about useful as a ceramic pistol for society.
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other than DIE HARD II-where do "ceramic pistols" exist?
 
Manc Skipper said:
How many witnesses to incidents will die from pulling out their cellphone to film what's going on, and drawing fire because it's assumed to be a gun?
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probably far less than the thousands gun banners said would die from road rage shootings if CCW licenses were made easier to obtain.

and at least a million less than gun banners claimed would die if the Clinton gun ban was allowed to sunset
 
Dragonfly said:
Imagine being a cop.....and NOT knowing if a cell phone is a gun or not.
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They already have BOLOs on weapons that look like cell phones which is why they take them and other items if you are detained. I think they would probably notice someone unfolding their cell phone into a gun. As would an assailant. I have seen shotguns disguised as super soakers.
 
Manc Skipper said:
How many witnesses to incidents will die from pulling out their cellphone to film what's going on, and drawing fire because it's assumed to be a gun?
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None..
 
LaMidRighter said:
Big ****ing whoop. There are plenty of concealed weapons that do exactly that. No one cares about how scared you are of it, I can conceal and unleash a Derringer faster than that because of the mechanism alone.
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You didn't answer the question.

Crosscheck said:
This enters that gray zone. On one hand you can say that the cellphone gun is designed to keep it hidden which is exactly what the small derringer is designed for.

But with episodes of someone getting shot because they were holding a realistic looking toy gun it is not hard to foresee some difficult problems for law enforcement.

Since we do have small pistols and holsters for carrying them concealed I really don't see any need for this product. It is as about useful as a ceramic pistol for society.
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Exactly. This doesn't serve any purpose that other weapons wouldn't, but it does create its own unique problems.

Casper said:
How would it give them an advantage, criminals are not allowed to own guns, there are laws against that................
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Criminals don't obey laws. So if this goes into circulation, they'll obtain it.

TurtleDude said:
on what grounds

at one time a holster that looked like a wallet was banned. I guess the ATF clowns didn't want someone to shoot a mugger with what appeared to be a wallet

criminals mainly carry guns to

1) intimidate victims into complying

2) shooting other criminals

this weapon doesn't serve either purpose very well
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This weapon will be easier to conceal, and it will make things very uneasy for police at scenes where they're being videod.
 
Paleocon said:
You didn't answer the question.



Exactly. This doesn't serve any purpose that other weapons wouldn't, but it does create its own unique problems.



Criminals don't obey laws. So if this goes into circulation, they'll obtain it.



This weapon will be easier to conceal, and it will make things very uneasy for police at scenes where they're being videod.
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speculation on your part. people who intend to kill police officers are pretty much beyond being deterred by potential punishment.
 
reinoe said:
It is if terrorists want to sneak it past metal detectors.
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Guess they will have to come up with plastic ammunition too...
 
TurtleDude said:
speculation on your part. people who intend to kill police officers are pretty much beyond being deterred by potential punishment.
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Nothing I mentioned has anything to do with deterence. If the weapon doesn't go into circulation, people's aptitude to use it wrongfully won't matter.
 
Paleocon said:
Nothing I mentioned has anything to do with deterence. If the weapon doesn't go into circulation, people's aptitude to use it wrongfully won't matter.
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that's prior restraint. a concept abhorrent to a free society
 
TurtleDude said:
that's prior restraint. a concept abhorrent to a free society
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Isn't that the same way they keep drugs illegal?

Also, isn't prior restraint a term used about expression? I think most of our laws would be called "prior restraint" if the term was used on topics outside of censorship.
 
Paleocon said:
Any law whatsoever restricts freedom. So that's a non-argument.
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you don't seem to understand what prior restraint means.

your burden is one of a clear and convincing evidence. can you meet that?
 
bungleodeon said:
Isn't that the same way they keep drugs illegal?

Also, isn't prior restraint a term used about expression? I think most of our laws would be called "prior restraint" if the term was used on topics outside of censorship.
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Don't get me started on the idiocy of drug bans.

so I will ask you the same question. what is the clear and convincing evidence you have supporting a ban on a two shot pistol?
 
TurtleDude said:
you don't seem to understand what prior restraint means.

your burden is one of a clear and convincing evidence. can you meet that?
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I understand it. I just reject your instinctive abhorrence of it. We use prior restraint all the time.
 
Paleocon said:
Criminals don't obey laws. So if this goes into circulation, they'll obtain it.
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Correct, they will do the same they always do, break the law. Glad to see you get that reality, I was not sure on that. Now back to whether it should or not be legal, it is a two shot handgun, basically a derringer of sorts, few people actually carry them even though many buy them and the reason is they tend to be too limited in a defensive situation. The argument that people might get shot if someone thinks their phone is a gun is already a reality, especially in a low light situation, and people that point anything at a LEO is asking to get shot, so that danger already exists and why people should simply obey the officer when they give orders and if you want to make a complaint later that is your right, at least you would be here to do so.
I think the gun is "gimmicky" and the likelihood is they will not sell all that many since most people that do carry prefer something better suited for defensive needs. Will I buy one, nope, far too many better choices, even in derringers type weapons if that is what someone is seeking.
 
Paleocon said:
I understand it. I just reject your instinctive abhorrence of it. We use prior restraint all the time.
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there are lots of things this government does that needs to be reformed
 
BretJ said:
Guess they will have to come up with plastic ammunition too...
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It is the same thing people said about Glock's when they first came out, tells one how little some people understand about firearms or ammunition.
 
TurtleDude said:
Don't get me started on the idiocy of drug bans.

so I will ask you the same question. what is the clear and convincing evidence you have supporting a ban on a two shot pistol?
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Strawman? I was hoping for you to clarify your opinion. You did that. No attack from me, nor did I ever even mention my opinion on the topic at hand. I read your post, wanted to ask you a question, you clarified, let's move on?
 
Absentglare said:
Honestly ? I don't care that much.

You can already try to hide or disguise a gun.
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Good point. some guns are so small you can "palm them"

being able to hide a gun and then deploy it almost instantly is far more important than pretending its a cell phone to get a drop on your adversary.
 
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