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Should gun control supportres pay extra tax

Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

haymarket said:
Then they need their own independent island.

Your proposal is a cheap and tyrannical attempt to silence people who disagree with your own obsession with guns. Period.
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They have one Haymarket it is the USA it has laws and a constitution that protects the people should they care to defend those protections. Subversives who would remove their rights and prostitute the constitution having them suck on governments teat and beg for everything have no place there.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

Crimefree said:
The world in not quite like you see it and refuse to acknowledge. Louisiana was simply proof it can be done so no matter what you say or claim it is entirely possible. Nobody rushed to the rescue of any one of those deprived. It has not been the only confiscation see California for another. Why on earth would this be done enmasse? Give one good reason why government would be so utterly stupid?




Yes the foolish within that give away our rights.



You naturally know that guns do not cause crime but here you are expounding the theory they do and we need to do something about it. You of course will not see that which means you are unwilling to examine evidence that shows your BELIEFS to be wrong. Why do you think emotions now rule you instead of common sense?

You can sell you own stuff to who you choose but it does not apply to others.

Question is should you pay tax for this belief you want to force on others
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ok and No to the tax, we will just have to agreeably disagree
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TurtleDude said:
actually few criminals go to gun shows to buy from private individuals. Less than 2% of criminals get their guns that way and that does not even specify if that is after a straw sale or the criminal actually buying a gun face to face with a private seller. WHY? Have you been to a gun show? its full of cops, FBI etc
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ive been to dozens of of guns shows was at one last weekend. Guns shows being full of law enforcement doesnot curtail private sales they are legal in Fla. Stand out side a gun show and watch the people checking in firearms they are bringing to the show and you can see the people approaching them to purchase, law enforcement can do nothing about legal sales. In Fla its legal to transfer in that manner with no paperwork.

Im for guns and own them and shoot them regularly, but truth is the truth guns bought in private transactions are resold up north for HUGE profits.
A 9mm you can buy used at a gun show for 200 bucks can be worth 2,000 or more to someone who wants one bad enough.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

lpast said:
ok and No to the tax, we will just have to agreeably disagree
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I actually wanted to find out how many supported gun control. I did not think any of them would realise the load they place on public money for absolutely no useful return to citizens. Nor did I expect to gain any sympathy for the waste that could be better spent on solving crime, solving the problems causing crime and arresting criminals rather than chasing citizens guns. No matter what we believe it fails if we believe gun do not cause crime and crime cannot be solved by denial of guns. We also know facts are with us as guns cannot cause crime any more than a rock can. Beliefs ignore reality.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

lpast said:
ive been to dozens of of guns shows was at one last weekend. Guns shows being full of law enforcement doesnot curtail private sales they are legal in Fla. Stand out side a gun show and watch the people checking in firearms they are bringing to the show and you can see the people approaching them to purchase, law enforcement can do nothing about legal sales. In Fla its legal to transfer in that manner with no paperwork.

Im for guns and own them and shoot them regularly, but truth is the truth guns bought in private transactions are resold up north for HUGE profits.
A 9mm you can buy used at a gun show for 200 bucks can be worth 2,000 or more to someone who wants one bad enough.
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curtailing private sales is not the issue

its about felons buying guns in an environment full of LEOS

and the stuff you complain about is ALREADY ILLEGAL

and without complete registration, cannot be stopped with more laws
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

We already have a model, vetted by SCOTUS, for a tax that's not a tax and that's the ACA. Simply require the purchase of a gun every year, with tax penalties for failure to do so.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

lpast said:
ive been to dozens of of guns shows was at one last weekend. Guns shows being full of law enforcement doesnot curtail private sales they are legal in Fla. Stand out side a gun show and watch the people checking in firearms they are bringing to the show and you can see the people approaching them to purchase, law enforcement can do nothing about legal sales. In Fla its legal to transfer in that manner with no paperwork.

Im for guns and own them and shoot them regularly, but truth is the truth guns bought in private transactions are resold up north for HUGE profits.
A 9mm you can buy used at a gun show for 200 bucks can be worth 2,000 or more to someone who wants one bad enough.
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Are you suggesting that a stupid law which allows people to profit legally or not is not the problem gun shows are?
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TurtleDude said:
curtailing private sales is not the issue

its about felons buying guns in an environment full of LEOS

and the stuff you complain about is ALREADY ILLEGAL

and without complete registration, cannot be stopped with more laws
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Some may miss the meaning of complete registration. It means EVERY gun in EXISTENCE. Registration is another red herring of gun control but is the greatest single step gun control can make. It will facilitate more and more requirements and finally provide a list of who to visit. What more can gun control want than citizens who think gun control is a good idea and divert billions of public funding to chasing and harassing law abiding citizens.

It's only fair if you want government to waste money you should provide it.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

Crimefree said:
Are you suggesting that a stupid law which allows people to profit legally or not is not the problem gun shows are?
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No...and im not even sure I know what youre talking about. If youre asking me if I think the law or lack of a law that allows people to transfer firearms at a gun show is the guns shows fault the answer is NO
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TurtleDude said:
curtailing private sales is not the issue

its about felons buying guns in an environment full of LEOS

and the stuff you complain about is ALREADY ILLEGAL

and without complete registration, cannot be stopped with more laws
Click to expand...


I dont know what you are arguing about we fundamentally agree, except private sales are the problem
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

Crimefree said:
Let me remind you



The point is that even the founding fathers told the people this 2A is the cornerstone that will hold government in check. How much of it are you willing to give away?

Is being willing to give away the peoples rights something you should be taxed on?
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I would have thought it is safe and government should not be allowed to involve itself.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TaterTots said:
The majority of your post doesn't even make sense until the end. "Why should anyone that owns guns have to wait?" How about because you may have committed a crime, been incarcerated, or have developed suicidal tendencies since your last purchase(you may have sold your last firearm). Lets get something straight. When I spoke of a waiting period that involves a background check every single time you purchase a firearm.
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I see. So we usurp the Constitution, and punish law abiding citizens, because someone who is not even inclined to obey the law in the first place may have committed a crime. Riiight. :roll:

And what about people who are under legitimate threat, and need a reliable means of self protection, immediately? Screw 'em?
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

NonoBadDog said:
You have covered a lot of territory and subjects in this post. I will be brief and I would suggest you pick a topic at a time to discuss so it can be discussed in detail.


Unconstitutional. The federal govt can't take states rights away from them by regulating intrastate commerce. It would require more authority by the federal govt than is constitutionally permitted. It would take power formt he state and give it to the fed.


Over reach that is intended to make it more complicated to buy and sell ammo and wouldn't prevent crime. This would also result in the buyer being charged for a background check every time they wanted to buy a box of ammo.



It could also prevent a woman that is being stalked by a jilted lover or estranged husband from buying a hand gun to protect herself. This is a bad law passed because of a hypothetical "it could happen"situation.
'No one helped her': NJ woman murdered by ex while awaiting gun permit | Fox News
More Women and Children Killed By The Brady Bill


Most of the gun owners I know don't agree with this stance at all.


Not constitutional. Again states rights. This is an idea that one would have to attend class to "earn" their 2nd Amendment rights. One could also attempt to apply this to voting or free speech if it were a constitutionally viable proposal. Also this would disenfranchise low income people.


This could also be applied to bathing children or swimming pools as there are more fatal accidents in either one of those than accidental deaths from firearms.


Yet you think background checks on ammo is a reasonable proposal.


You can legally own a fully automatic weapon. There have been more people that have choked to death on artichokes (seriously) than have been murdered with a legally owned fully automatic weapon.


At least we agree on something.
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Well, that about covers it. Very well said. :) [/THREAD]
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

Crimefree said:
Would you object to somebody buying a potato?

Potato's kill as many as guns do, perhaps more. Potato's make as many people commit crime as guns do.
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I'm gonna need a citation for such a claim. I want statistical proof that more people die from a potato every year than guns.
 
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Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

countryboy said:
I see. So we usurp the Constitution, and punish law abiding citizens, because someone who is not even inclined to obey the law in the first place may have committed a crime. Riiight. :roll:

And what about people who are under legitimate threat, and need a reliable means of self protection, immediately? Screw 'em?
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I'm seeing this as a go to response more and more. The whole "victim" scenario. If you are that concerned about your life you should be doing more than purchasing a firearm. Due to the amount of responses I've received that are completely unwavering it's become obvious this is a very pro gun forum. I have 0 issue with that, but I'm starting to suspect some people here want even less steps to purchase a firearm.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TaterTots said:
I'm seeing this as a go to response more and more. The whole "victim" scenario. If you are that concerned about your life you should be doing more than purchasing a firearm. Due to the amount of responses I've received that are completely unwavering it's become obvious this is a very pro gun forum. I have 0 issue with that, but I'm starting to suspect some people here want even less steps to purchase a firearm.
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This forum has equal numbers of pro-gun and anti-gun members. But you didn't answer my question. ;)
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

lpast said:
I dont know what you are arguing about we fundamentally agree, except private sales are the problem
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no they aren't. Most criminals who get guns from others are getting guns from people who already know the recipient of the firearm is a criminal
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TurtleDude said:
no they aren't. Most criminals who get guns from others are getting guns from people who already know the recipient of the firearm is a criminal
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heh and where did they get the guns from in the first place ? Guns in criminal hands come from personal transfers and B&Es
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TurtleDude said:
waiting periods are repugnant to a free society, and do nothing to improve pubic safety

the main motivation for waiting periods (crap about "heat of passion" is just that crap) is to put gun shows out of business. background checks cannot be enforced on private sales without complete and total registration of all existing firearms and is unconstitutional on top of that
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We have to prove our innocence, good grief get with the program, and no it does not matter that you were checked 2 days ago and need to get the new gun to go elk hunting as a last minute invite, no excuses. Just learn to be patient because after all Rights have limits, kinda sad when you see the nonsense spread as if it were truth.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

lpast said:
No...and im not even sure I know what youre talking about. If youre asking me if I think the law or lack of a law that allows people to transfer firearms at a gun show is the guns shows fault the answer is NO
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You claimed profiteering was a problem. Do you not read your own posts. Is the law that allows profiteering the problem or are gun shows the problem. Really simply question. You claim it is the gun shows. Why only you know.

Why are gun shows a problem even if criminals used them which they do not?

You incredibly foolishly believe gun controls lies that criminal can be denied by removing one source or all legal sources?

How intelligent does one have to be to recognise that drugs are banned, there are no legal sources for criminals, everything is closed off. Can you find illegal drugs?
1) Impossible to get
2) Very difficult
3) Can be done but needs lots of time and connections
4) These idiotic laws have not worked at all, it is about as easy as getting candy.

How many guns do you think it takes to satisfy the criminal demand?

How many illegal guns are there at present?

Do you still believe it is possible to deny criminals anything they want with a law?
Yes? There is nothing more to say. Lies impress you.
No? Good you have learnt something today

Learn that anything gun control claims is a lie. All you have to is find the lie, guaranteed it is there.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

joG said:
I would have thought it is safe and government should not be allowed to involve itself.
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Do you know that the only currency of politics is power? What does that suggest?
You have read the Declaration of Independence have you not?

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The constitution does not protect itself. That is the job of the rights owners.

There is no government in the world that will not usurp power if allowed by the people.
 
Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

TaterTots said:
The majority of your post doesn't even make sense until the end. "Why should anyone that owns guns have to wait?" How about because you may have committed a crime, been incarcerated, or have developed suicidal tendencies since your last purchase(you may have sold your last firearm). Lets get something straight. When I spoke of a waiting period that involves a background check every single time you purchase a firearm.
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WTF is the criminals sentence all about? What is a criminal when released?

You still have not given a valid answer for WHY a background check is needed or a waiting period. You going to get to it soon? Do not repeat already refuted claims. Nobody here like refuting the same stuff over and over again.

Who should be paying for this fiasco?
 
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Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

lpast said:
I dont know what you are arguing about we fundamentally agree, except private sales are the problem
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Best you back that up with some evidence then but it does not answer the question. Should those who demand government waste money on gun control pay for it? I really don't care if gun control supporters think they are doing something wonderful. I gave references to show they are not and are demanding waste. Why should they not pay for it?
 
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Re: Should gun control supporters pay extra tax?

Crimefree said:
Do you know that the only currency of politics is power? What does that suggest?
You have read the Declaration of Independence have you not?

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

The constitution does not protect itself. That is the job of the rights owners.

There is no government in the world that will not usurp power if allowed by the people.
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And so, one must keep an eye on it and hold a gun.
 
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