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Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence[W:101]

MrT

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So I watched the Daily Show last night where they covered the interesting topic of allowing the CDC to study gun violence.

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nc8xh2/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-new-approach-to-gun-violence-prevention[/video]

Now, the interesting thing to me is not that they covered this topic. It is an important topic and it would make sense for the Daily Show to cover it in the wake of multiple mass shootings that have taken place this year. No, what is interesting is the fact that the former director of the CDC, Mark Rosenberg, and Jay Dickey, the original author of the Dickey Amendment - the amendment which originally and continually prevents the CDC from studying gun violence - joined together in order to promote this cause. Here is a link to the article that they authored together.

The article is titled, "How to Protect Gun Rights While Reducing the Toll of Gun Violence." And that is a cause that I believe we can all support.

And to quote the Daily Show correspondent, during an interview with Jazz Shaw of Hot Air (who wrote an article on why he did the show here), when you are wondering how we could possibly make guns safer, the response...

We will study it you ****!
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Why not allow the CDC to study gang/drug related and other violent crime too? ;)

It is very puzzling why any subset (based on the tool used) of violent crime should be addressed (or even studied) by medical folks as opposed to law enforcement folks - should the FBI now study cancer, AIDs, Alzheimer's and obesity?
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

So I watched the Daily Show last night where they covered the interesting topic of allowing the CDC to study gun violence.

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nc8xh2/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-new-approach-to-gun-violence-prevention[/video]

Now, the interesting thing to me is not that they covered this topic. It is an important topic and it would make sense for the Daily Show to cover it in the wake of multiple mass shootings that have taken place this year. No, what is interesting is the fact that the former director of the CDC, Mark Rosenberg, and Jay Dickey, the original author of the Dickey Amendment - the amendment which originally and continually prevents the CDC from studying gun violence - joined together in order to promote this cause. Here is a link to the article that they authored together.

The article is titled, "How to Protect Gun Rights While Reducing the Toll of Gun Violence." And that is a cause that I believe we can all support.

And to quote the Daily Show correspondent, during an interview with Jazz Shaw of Hot Air (who wrote an article on why he did the show here), when you are wondering how we could possibly make guns safer, the response...

The CDC has become politicized on a number of issues. We really don't need any more politicized science. It causes a great waste of resources.
 
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Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Why not allow the CDC to study gang/drug related and other violent crime too? ;)

It is very puzzling why any subset (based on the tool used) of violent crime should be addressed (or even studied) by medical folks as opposed to law enforcement folks - should the FBI now study cancer, AIDs, Alzheimer's and obesity?

There is no limitation on the CDC studying gang/drug related violence.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

The CDC has become politicized on a number of issues. We really don't need any more politicized science. It causes a great waste of resources.

Why do you believe that the CDC is politicized?
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

So I watched the Daily Show last night where they covered the interesting topic of allowing the CDC to study gun violence.

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nc8xh2/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-new-approach-to-gun-violence-prevention[/video]

Now, the interesting thing to me is not that they covered this topic. It is an important topic and it would make sense for the Daily Show to cover it in the wake of multiple mass shootings that have taken place this year. No, what is interesting is the fact that the former director of the CDC, Mark Rosenberg, and Jay Dickey, the original author of the Dickey Amendment - the amendment which originally and continually prevents the CDC from studying gun violence - joined together in order to promote this cause. Here is a link to the article that they authored together.

The article is titled, "How to Protect Gun Rights While Reducing the Toll of Gun Violence." And that is a cause that I believe we can all support.

And to quote the Daily Show correspondent, during an interview with Jazz Shaw of Hot Air (who wrote an article on why he did the show here), when you are wondering how we could possibly make guns safer, the response...

Maybe the EPA should study gun violence also. Lets get NOAA in on it and while we are at it get the FDA, NTSB, FAA, Postal Service and the Department of Agriculture to study it also. We can make them all independent and restrict them from sharing information.

The CDC blew it when they stated what they intended to find when they proposed the study. The outcome was predetermined to push their anti gun agenda. There was never any pretense of even having a scientific study. There are other agencies that already cover this area. The FBI releases tons of information every year. We don't need an agency that should be focused on disease control duplicate work already completed by an appropriate law enforcement agency (FBI).
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

So I watched the Daily Show last night where they covered the interesting topic of allowing the CDC to study gun violence.

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nc8xh2/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-new-approach-to-gun-violence-prevention[/video]

Now, the interesting thing to me is not that they covered this topic. It is an important topic and it would make sense for the Daily Show to cover it in the wake of multiple mass shootings that have taken place this year. No, what is interesting is the fact that the former director of the CDC, Mark Rosenberg, and Jay Dickey, the original author of the Dickey Amendment - the amendment which originally and continually prevents the CDC from studying gun violence - joined together in order to promote this cause. Here is a link to the article that they authored together.

The article is titled, "How to Protect Gun Rights While Reducing the Toll of Gun Violence." And that is a cause that I believe we can all support.

And to quote the Daily Show correspondent, during an interview with Jazz Shaw of Hot Air (who wrote an article on why he did the show here), when you are wondering how we could possibly make guns safer, the response...

Center for DISEASE CONTROL...

Let the FBI conduct such studies if need be.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

There is no limitation on the CDC studying gang/drug related violence.

OK - show me those studies. ;)
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Maybe the EPA should study gun violence also. Lets get NOAA in on it and while we are at it get the FDA, NTSB, FAA, Postal Service and the Department of Agriculture to study it also. We can make them all independent and restrict them from sharing information.

The CDC blew it when they stated what they intended to find when they proposed the study. The outcome was predetermined to push their anti gun agenda. There was never any pretense of even having a scientific study. There are other agencies that already cover this area. The FBI releases tons of information every year. We don't need an agency that should be focused on disease control duplicate work already completed by an appropriate law enforcement agency (FBI).

Did you really need to include the the snarky analogies? Setting aside the fact that they are terrible analogies, you have the problem that your argument would only be a reason why those groups shouldn't investigate gun violence as opposed to any reason why the CDC should not.

As for the main part of your analysis, where did the CDC "state their intended purpose" or show that they have an "anti gun agenda?"

As for the FBI already releasing information each year, I fail to see how that is particularly relevant or important. The CDC is a group designed to study medical information and to make recommendations on how to solve those medical issues. Gun injuries and deaths are certainly connected enough to the medical field that their suggestions would be relevant. Moreover, it's not like you would create some extensive amount of waste by merely ALLOWING them to study the issue AND their expertise might lend itself to some relevant and practical solutions that would help protect your gun rights while reducing the harm from gun violence.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

So I watched the Daily Show last night where they covered the interesting topic of allowing the CDC to study gun violence.

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nc8xh2/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-new-approach-to-gun-violence-prevention[/video]

Now, the interesting thing to me is not that they covered this topic. It is an important topic and it would make sense for the Daily Show to cover it in the wake of multiple mass shootings that have taken place this year. No, what is interesting is the fact that the former director of the CDC, Mark Rosenberg, and Jay Dickey, the original author of the Dickey Amendment - the amendment which originally and continually prevents the CDC from studying gun violence - joined together in order to promote this cause. Here is a link to the article that they authored together.

The article is titled, "How to Protect Gun Rights While Reducing the Toll of Gun Violence." And that is a cause that I believe we can all support.

And to quote the Daily Show correspondent, during an interview with Jazz Shaw of Hot Air (who wrote an article on why he did the show here), when you are wondering how we could possibly make guns safer, the response...

The last time the CDC studied gun violence, it didn't work out so well for the gun grabbers. You sure you want to try again? Be careful what you wish for. ;)
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

So I watched the Daily Show last night where they covered the interesting topic of allowing the CDC to study gun violence.

[video]http://www.cc.com/video-clips/nc8xh2/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-new-approach-to-gun-violence-prevention[/video]

Now, the interesting thing to me is not that they covered this topic. It is an important topic and it would make sense for the Daily Show to cover it in the wake of multiple mass shootings that have taken place this year. No, what is interesting is the fact that the former director of the CDC, Mark Rosenberg, and Jay Dickey, the original author of the Dickey Amendment - the amendment which originally and continually prevents the CDC from studying gun violence - joined together in order to promote this cause. Here is a link to the article that they authored together.

The article is titled, "How to Protect Gun Rights While Reducing the Toll of Gun Violence." And that is a cause that I believe we can all support.

And to quote the Daily Show correspondent, during an interview with Jazz Shaw of Hot Air (who wrote an article on why he did the show here), when you are wondering how we could possibly make guns safer, the response...

Gun violence is not caused by viruses, fungi, or other disease vectors, this is not in the scope of what the CDC is chartered for. The study of gun violence would be more appropriate for something like the the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Why do you believe that the CDC is politicized?

There are several issues in which politics plays a big role at the CDC and what they do. Examples are HIV/AIDS, chronic fatigue syndrome, and gluten sensitivity. Politics has resulted in changes in disease classification and the amount of resources allocated to study disease or whether or not to study them at all.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Did you really need to include the the snarky analogies? Setting aside the fact that they are terrible analogies, you have the problem that your argument would only be a reason why those groups shouldn't investigate gun violence as opposed to any reason why the CDC should not.

As for the main part of your analysis, where did the CDC "state their intended purpose" or show that they have an "anti gun agenda?"

As for the FBI already releasing information each year, I fail to see how that is particularly relevant or important. The CDC is a group designed to study medical information and to make recommendations on how to solve those medical issues. Gun injuries and deaths are certainly connected enough to the medical field that their suggestions would be relevant. Moreover, it's not like you would create some extensive amount of waste by merely ALLOWING them to study the issue AND their expertise might lend itself to some relevant and practical solutions that would help protect your gun rights while reducing the harm from gun violence.

Sorry about the snark. It wasn't intended as snark. I meant them to be examples of over reach by govt agencies.

Lengthy response incoming.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

The last time the CDC studied gun violence, it didn't work out so well for the gun grabbers. You sure you want to try again? Be careful what you wish for. ;)

The CDC "study" that you claim did not work out well for "gun grabbers" was a summary of the current state of research on the topic. It was not a study conducted by the CDC and it merely attempted to summarize the research - some of which was several years old and conducted by very partisan groups.

So yes, I want them to study the issue.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Gun violence is not caused by viruses, fungi, or other disease vectors, this is not in the scope of what the CDC is chartered for. The study of gun violence would be more appropriate for something like the the Bureau of Justice Statistics.

Injuries and deaths caused by firearms are certainly within the medical realm where a medical expertise on the topic would be both welcome and useful.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

There are several issues in which politics plays a big role at the CDC and what they do. Examples are HIV/AIDS, chronic fatigue syndrome, and gluten sensitivity. Politics has resulted in changes in disease classification and the amount of resources allocated to study disease or whether or not to study them at all.

And we have learned important bits of information about each and every one of those topics, including ways to mitigate their effects and to prevent the worst outcomes. The same will be true of gun violence.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Injuries and deaths caused by firearms are certainly within the medical realm where a medical expertise on the topic would be both welcome and useful.

This is true that it causes a medical issue, but it is not a disease.

Here is the CDC's charter

Advisory Resources | About | CDC

Purpose:

The Secretary, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS); the Assistant Secretary for Health; and by delegation, the Director, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), are authorized under Section 301 [42 U.S.C. Section 241] and Section 311 [42 U.S.C. Section 243] of the Public Health Service Act, as amended to: (1) conduct, encourage, cooperate with, and assist other appropriate public authorities, scientific institutions, and scientists in the conduct of research, investigations, experiments, demonstrations, and studies relating to the causes, diagnosis, treatment, control, and prevention of physical and mental diseases, and other impairments; (2) assist States and their political subdivisions in the prevention of infectious diseases and other preventable conditions, and in the promotion of health and well-being; and (3) train State and local personnel in health work.

I highlighted what I see as the most relevant wording. As you can see, this primarily aimed at diseases and gun violence is outside of the scope. There are more appropriate agencies to take up this study.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

Did you really need to include the the snarky analogies? Setting aside the fact that they are terrible analogies, you have the problem that your argument would only be a reason why those groups shouldn't investigate gun violence as opposed to any reason why the CDC should not.

As for the main part of your analysis, where did the CDC "state their intended purpose" or show that they have an "anti gun agenda?"

As for the FBI already releasing information each year, I fail to see how that is particularly relevant or important. The CDC is a group designed to study medical information and to make recommendations on how to solve those medical issues. Gun injuries and deaths are certainly connected enough to the medical field that their suggestions would be relevant. Moreover, it's not like you would create some extensive amount of waste by merely ALLOWING them to study the issue AND their expertise might lend itself to some relevant and practical solutions that would help protect your gun rights while reducing the harm from gun violence.

In 1989 the research head of the CDC ,Patrick O’Carroll, stated, "We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths." (Journal of the American Medical Association vol. 261 no. 5, February 3, 1989, pp. 675-76.)

The director of the CDC National Center of Injury Prevention branch Mark Rosenberg stated, that he "envisions a long term campaign, similar to tobacco use and auto safety, to convince Americans that guns are, first and foremost, a public health menace." "We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes. It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol — cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly — and banned."

Rosenberg's weird-sounding (at first) idea is that the way to combat criminal violence is to treat it the way we treat infectious diseases: as a public health problem amenable to causal research, therapy and prevention.
Well, of course. Rosenberg is director of the National Center for Injury Prevention, a division of the National Centers for Disease Control, and the infectious-disease approach may be the only tool he has.
As a matter of fact, to the extent that it conjures up the idea of gene therapy or anti-violence vaccines, the disease model may be misleading. This isn't:
"We need to revolutionize the way we look at guns, like what we did with cigarettes. It used to be that smoking was a glamour symbol -- cool, sexy, macho. Now it is dirty, deadly -- and banned." Rosenberg's thought is that if we could transform public attitudes toward guns the way we have transformed public attitudes toward cigarettes, we'd go a long way toward curbing our national epidemic of violence.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...th-guns/6c7f2bd2-fa57-4d69-b927-5ceb4fa43cf4/

The motive is clear. They wanted to use the CDC to publish a predetermined anti-gun conclusion using the power and authority of the CDC. The proposed study wasn't a study. They wanted to publish propaganda and got caught. This is why Congress doesn't trust the CDC to do any study on gun violence.
 
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Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

This is true that it causes a medical issue, but it is not a disease.

No but a disease can damage the brain causing mental illness and be the root cause of violent behavior. Take for example rabies. Mental health is clearly in its infancy compared to physical health. I am convinced that most criminals in our prisons are mentally ill. One day hopefully we evolve to the point where we treat them instead of take out our vengeance on them. Jail has never worked to reduce crime or rehabilitate those that commit crimes. A lot of the people I have hired with criminal records clearly have limited metal capacities, diminished learning skills, limited cognitive abilities, or for those not politically correct retarded. Hopefully one day we will spend more time helping these people than we do coming up with new politically correct names for their problem. That is a long ways off unfortunately. That would involve us improving our cognitive abilities and evolving away from vengeance towards these people. Never mind I am just having a pipe dream.
 
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Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

No but a disease can damage the brain causing mental illness and be the root cause of violent behavior. Take for example rabies. Mental health is clearly in its infancy compared to physical health. I am convinced that most criminals in our prisons are mentally ill. One day hopefully we evolve to the point where we treat them instead of take out our vengeance on them. Jail has never worked to reduce crime or rehabilitate those that commit crimes. A lot of the people I have hired with criminal records clearly have limited metal capacities, diminished learning skills, limited cognitive abilities, or for those not politically correct retarded. Hopefully one day we will spend more time helping these people tham we do coming up with new politically correct names for their problem.

Mentally ill people can act out and one of those ways of acting out is gun violence. However, the CDC is already chartered to study mental illness, so I am not sure why you are bringing this up as this is something the CDC already does.

Purpose:

The Secretary, Department of Health and Human Services (HHS); the Assistant Secretary for Health; and by delegation, the Director, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), are authorized under Section 301 [42 U.S.C. Section 241] and Section 311 [42 U.S.C. Section 243] of the Public Health Service Act, as amended to: (1) conduct, encourage, cooperate with, and assist other appropriate public authorities, scientific institutions, and scientists in the conduct of research, investigations, experiments, demonstrations, and studies relating to the causes, diagnosis, treatment, control, and prevention of physical and mental diseases, and other impairments; (2) assist States and their political subdivisions in the prevention of infectious diseases and other preventable conditions, and in the promotion of health and well-being; and (3) train State and local personnel in health work.

Mental Health - Home Page - CDC
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

the idea of the CDC studying gun violence is nothing more than an attempt by the hoplophobic left to do an end run around the constitution.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

It would seem that criminals are very (94%) effective at killing only their intended targets.



Many other "diseases" are not nearly so bystander friendly. ;)

That's fine. You asked for studies I just wanted to see how easy they are to come up with. A quick google search shows numerous results.
 
Re: Allow the CDC to Study Gun Violence

but it is not a disease.

Disease very well could be the cause of some mental illness and brain damage that causes people to become violent. Just responding to your quote. Evidence ha pointed to criminal behavior being genetic as well yet most people are not aware of that either. People only hear what they want to hear.
 
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