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Gun Trust

jet57

jet57

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So, I've heard about these things and in checking up I found that they are in California and Ohio. What exactly is a gun trust? What is their relationship to the second amendment? Do they work? Are they expensive, and how does somebody get one?
 
jet57 said:
So, I've heard about these things and in checking up I found that they are in California and Ohio. What exactly is a gun trust? What is their relationship to the second amendment? Do they work? Are they expensive, and how does somebody get one?
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My understanding is that it much like any other trust. That is, you place your assets (in this case guns) in a trust so as to avoid probate and all of its complications. This would be especially helpful in the Socialist Republic of California where it is extremely difficult to transfer guns, even to a relative.
 
blackjack50 said:
Weird

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_trust

Basically you don't own the gun. You buy into a group that does so that you can get around NFA red tape. Don't know if I do or don't like them.
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I was unaware that there was the "acquisition" of NFA regulated firearms benefit. The gun trusts are generally discussed by pro gun groups, such as the NRA and defensive firearms training schools positively, and they would seem to be consistent with our second amendment rights. Though, it is unfortunate that we have to jump through so many hoops to defend these rights. My guess is you can not do this "without a lawyer" jet57 :lol:
 
RenoCon said:
I was unaware that there was the "acquisition" of NFA regulated firearms benefit. The gun trusts are generally discussed by pro gun groups, such as the NRA and defensive firearms training schools positively, and they would seem to be consistent with our second amendment rights. Though, it is unfortunate that we have to jump through so many hoops to defend these rights. My guess is you can not do this "without a lawyer" jet57 :lol:
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It's the whole NFA, ATF thing and some other stuff that makes it difficult to understand.
 
I've only heard of "Gun Trusts" being used for NFA firearms (suppressors, autos, short barreled rifles, and short barreled shotguns). It's a way of making the red tape of the ATF a bit less onerous, as well as avoiding the local sherrif (or judge or da or other officer of the court) having to sign off on such acquisitions. As you can imagine, some anti juridisctions are very hostile.
 
RenoCon said:
I was unaware that there was the "acquisition" of NFA regulated firearms benefit. The gun trusts are generally discussed by pro gun groups, such as the NRA and defensive firearms training schools positively, and they would seem to be consistent with our second amendment rights. Though, it is unfortunate that we have to jump through so many hoops to defend these rights. My guess is you can not do this "without a lawyer" jet57 :lol:
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Actually, you can do it on your own, but it has to be notarized of course. The trust buys the suppressors and the whole family can be part of the trust. And it can be passed on to heirs. Much like any other trust.

For those desiring these types of items, it's a good thing. For the avg. gun owner, probably a waste of time.
 
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MickeyW said:
Actually, you can do it on your own, but it has to be notarized of course. The trust buys the suppressors and the whole family can be part of the trust. And it can be passed on to heirs. Much like any other trust.

For those desiring these types of items, it's a good thing. For the avg. gun owner, probably a waste of time.
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Suppressors are nice but too much bother to legally obtain.

Autos are fun but mainly for turning money into noise. :)


Like you say, not worth the bother for most.
 
MickeyW said:
Actually, you can do it on your own, but it has to be notarized of course. The trust buys the suppressors and the whole family can be part of the trust. And it can be passed on to heirs. Much like any other trust.

For those desiring these types of items, it's a good thing. For the avg. gun owner, probably a waste of time.
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My NFA items are all in a trust. Only reason being is that legally, under a typical stamp, my wife or adult sons cannot have access to the items. Meaning I would have to keep them in a seperate gun safe that only I had access to. The item is only allowed to be used by the owner of the tax stamp. Under a trust, anyone on the trust can have access to and use the items. My son used to borrow my suppressed rifles to go to the range or hunting all the time because he is on the trust. Not a loophole by any measure. Though some people use a trust to get around a law enforcement signature in a few jurisdictions where the powers that be refuse to sign the forms....which, BTW, go to the ATF and FBI for vetting so there is really no reason for law enforcement not to sign.

As a final note, out of the millions of NFA items in private hands, only two have ever been used in the commission of a crime. They were both police officers. No item in a trust has ever been used in a crime....
 
Goshin said:
Suppressors are nice but too much bother to legally obtain.

Autos are fun but mainly for turning money into noise. :)


Like you say, not worth the bother for most.
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Other than a little red tape, I will tell you that I will never shoot an unsuppressed firearm again unless I need to. Picked up the habit in the UK of all places.
 
BretJ said:
My NFA items are all in a trust. Only reason being is that legally, under a typical stamp, my wife or adult sons cannot have access to the items. Meaning I would have to keep them in a seperate gun safe that only I had access to. The item is only allowed to be used by the owner of the tax stamp. Under a trust, anyone on the trust can have access to and use the items. My son used to borrow my suppressed rifles to go to the range or hunting all the time because he is on the trust. Not a loophole by any measure. Though some people use a trust to get around a law enforcement signature in a few jurisdictions where the powers that be refuse to sign the forms....which, BTW, go to the ATF and FBI for vetting so there is really no reason for law enforcement not to sign.

As a final note, out of the millions of NFA items in private hands, only two have ever been used in the commission of a crime. They were both police officers. No item in a trust has ever been used in a crime....
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Isn't a gun trust also a way to own banned weapons?
 
BretJ said:
My NFA items are all in a trust. Only reason being is that legally, under a typical stamp, my wife or adult sons cannot have access to the items. Meaning I would have to keep them in a seperate gun safe that only I had access to. The item is only allowed to be used by the owner of the tax stamp. Under a trust, anyone on the trust can have access to and use the items. My son used to borrow my suppressed rifles to go to the range or hunting all the time because he is on the trust. Not a loophole by any measure. Though some people use a trust to get around a law enforcement signature in a few jurisdictions where the powers that be refuse to sign the forms....which, BTW, go to the ATF and FBI for vetting so there is really no reason for law enforcement not to sign.

As a final note, out of the millions of NFA items in private hands, only two have ever been used in the commission of a crime. They were both police officers. No item in a trust has ever been used in a crime....
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Thus the advent of a trust.
 
jet57 said:
Isn't a gun trust also a way to own banned weapons?
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The trust can own full auto weapons, SBRs (short barrel rifles), and suppressors if that's what you are asking.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1065633694 said:
The trust can own full auto weapons, SBRs (short barrel rifles), and suppressors if that's what you are asking.
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Yeah, I am thanks. But why does a trust allow that in states that ban them?
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1065633694 said:
The trust can own full auto weapons, SBRs (short barrel rifles), and suppressors if that's what you are asking.
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Ssssshhh, thats the secret sauce.

Liberals might call it the next loophole and will then try to **** on our rights again.
 
jet57 said:
Isn't a gun trust also a way to own banned weapons?
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Not quite sure what weapons would be banned. NFA weapons?? If an item is restricted ownership in a particular state, not even an NFA trust would allow it. For instance, a short barreled rifle I may be fine for ownership in Florida but still illegal in Hawaii. A trust will not change that.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1065633687 said:
Thus the advent of a trust.
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True. In my case, I did it so everyone in my family could have access legally.
 
jet57 said:
Yeah, I am thanks. But why does a trust allow that in states that ban them?
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As far as I know, a trust does not. For what it is worth, only a handful of states ban them. 39 or so states now allow suppressors. Most allow them for hunting. Any particular concern? In all reality, I don't think most would even go the trust route if ATF went ahead and removed the local LE signature requirement. The paperwork still gets vetted by ATF and FBI. They keep saying they are going to remove it or make it a requirement that LE must sign it unless cause can be found.

Regardless, as I said, out of millions of NFA trusts, not a single crime has been committed with one of these items.
 
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jet57 said:
So, I've heard about these things and in checking up I found that they are in California and Ohio. What exactly is a gun trust? What is their relationship to the second amendment? Do they work? Are they expensive, and how does somebody get one?
Click to expand...

Under the 1934 NFA, not only do you have to pass a background check to own say a machine gun, you have to get the permission of your local law enforcement chief (Chief of police or sheriff) which he can deny for any reason he wants

In Hamilton County Ohio, the long time Fascist party chief, Si Leis (the people vs Larry Flynt) would not sign off on automatic weapons no matter what. SO if you lived in Hamilton county you couldn't own a machine gun or a silencer UNLESS you lived in a city where the chief of police would agree (and many wouldn't)

so you would create an NFA trust

the trustees would still have to undergo the background check but it got rid of the arbitrary permission of the Chief local law enforcement officer

it also makes it easier for someone who owns machine guns or silencers or SBRs to know they will be properly transferred on the principal's death
 
BretJ said:
Not quite sure what weapons would be banned. NFA weapons?? If an item is restricted ownership in a particular state, not even an NFA trust would allow it. For instance, a short barreled rifle I may be fine for ownership in Florida but still illegal in Hawaii. A trust will not change that.
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Using a Gun Trust to Pass on Firearms | Nolo.com

Many gun owners have been hearing a lot about the benefits of “gun trusts,” which are specifically designed to hold ownership of firearms. Usually, these trusts are used for firearms that are subject to strict federal and state regulations, but they may include other kinds of weapons as well. Gun trusts can make it easier to handle firearms after the owner’s death—and may prevent surviving family members from inadvertently violating the law.
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The bolded part is the confusing part. I can understand having a trust for for inheritance purposes, however this business about things like machine guns seems like a run around for gun control of such weapons...

Or am I just not grasping the concept? Are machine guns allowed in some states? Short barreled rifles? The NRA of '34 would indicate no, so I'm trying to bridge that gap.
 
jet57 said:
Using a Gun Trust to Pass on Firearms | Nolo.com



The bolded part is the confusing part. I can understand having a trust for for inheritance purposes, however this business about things like machine guns seems like a run around for gun control of such weapons...

Or am I just not grasping the concept? Are machine guns allowed in some states? Short barreled rifles? The NRA of '34 would indicate no, so I'm trying to bridge that gap.
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Fully automatic firearms are allowed in about 25 states (I have not kept up with all changes in each state). My home state allows them.

short barreled rifles and shotguns (under 16 inches) are also allowed as are suppressors.
 
Here's why I mentioned Ohio and this run around gun control conclusion"

Ohio Gun Trust Lawyer NFA Gun Trusts in Ohio: FAQ's

Many people use NFA Gun trusts to lawfully buy "NFA Weapons," including machine guns, short barreled rifles and shotguns and sound suppressors (silencers) without having to obtain the consent of their chief of police. There are many IMPORTANT ADDITIONAL BENEFITS of these trusts for gun owners – not just for purchasers of NFA weapons. The trust is a totally private arrangement. You can leave your guns to members of your family without the intrusion and publicity of the probate system. No one will know about your collection.
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"To lawfully buy machine guns" etc... These having to do with the '34 NFA...

Can I get some clarification?
 
jaeger19 said:
Fully automatic firearms are allowed in about 25 states (I have not kept up with all changes in each state). My home state allows them.

short barreled rifles and shotguns (under 16 inches) are also allowed as are suppressors.
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Interesting, please check post # 22 of mine.
 
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