• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gun Trust

Using a Gun Trust to Pass on Firearms | Nolo.com



The bolded part is the confusing part. I can understand having a trust for for inheritance purposes, however this business about things like machine guns seems like a run around for gun control of such weapons...

Or am I just not grasping the concept? Are machine guns allowed in some states? Short barreled rifles? The NRA of '34 would indicate no, so I'm trying to bridge that gap.

There are two ways to own NFA firearms (SBR, SBS, Destructive Devices, Suppressors, Machine guns...) in states that allow them. Individual stamp tax or Trust stamp tax. The trust (which lists everyone having access) goes to the ATF along with the Form 4 transfer form. ATF still does a background check. The only benefit is that the trust does not require an LE signoff prior to submission and more than one person can use the item. It really is not a way to get around ownership of an NFA item.

What are you specifically seeing that is an issue? If you go to Subguns.com, you can find state by state laws and trust info along with NFA firearms currently for sale.
 
Last edited:
Interesting, please check post # 22 of mine.

I did.. 25 states or so allow fully automatic weapons, suppressors etc.

In those states the federal regulations require certain ownership "stamps". As one poster pointed out.

In order to have multiple owners able to be placed on said "stamp".. in order for multiple family members to say use the weapon in competition.. a trust is formed.

I am not sure what you don;t understand.

Just to point out.. maybe you should understand what gun laws there ARE before claiming we need more gun laws.
 
So, I've heard about these things and in checking up I found that they are in California and Ohio. What exactly is a gun trust? What is their relationship to the second amendment? Do they work? Are they expensive, and how does somebody get one?

I set one up about 9 years ago.. and it cost 900 bucks then.( all taken care of by the lawyer, and a notary public)...not sure what it would run today


here's a link to the benefits of a gun trust....
The benefits of a gun trust - The Gun Writer

I set mine up to take advantage of many of these benefits.. but mostly to protect my family from onerous and duplicate requirements for the possession and use of our NFA items.
the one thing is doesn't circumvent is background checks... technically, there are no background check requirements, but I've yet to come across a dealer who doesn't want ot run one ( my Texas CCL get me around background checks most of the time, though)
it also aids in handing down these item to my family members .. at least those whom are also listed as trustees, anyways.

and yes, they work.....quite well, in fact
 
Suppressors are nice but too much bother to legally obtain.

Autos are fun but mainly for turning money into noise. :)


Like you say, not worth the bother for most.

yes...it depends on who and what.
 
Last edited:
As far as I know, a trust does not. For what it is worth, only a handful of states ban them. 39 or so states now allow suppressors. Most allow them for hunting. Any particular concern? In all reality, I don't think most would even go the trust route if ATF went ahead and removed the local LE signature requirement. The paperwork still gets vetted by ATF and FBI. They keep saying they are going to remove it or make it a requirement that LE must sign it unless cause can be found.

Regardless, as I said, out of millions of NFA trusts, not a single crime has been committed with one of these items.

The majority of law abiding, decent gun owners, commit no crimes.....
 
There are two ways to own NFA firearms (SBR, SBS, Destructive Devices, Suppressors, Machine guns...) in states that allow them. Individual stamp tax or Trust stamp tax. The trust (which lists everyone having access) goes to the ATF along with the Form 4 transfer form. ATF still does a background check. The only benefit is that the trust does not require an LE signoff prior to submission and more than one person can use the item. It really is not a way to get around ownership of an NFA item.

What are you specifically seeing that is an issue? If you go to Subguns.com, you can find state by state laws and trust info along with NFA firearms currently for sale.

So, here's this:
Usually, these trusts are used for firearms that are subject to strict federal and state regulations, but they may include other kinds of weapons as well.
If said weapons are allowed in a state, why the necessity for that line?
 
So, here's this: If said weapons are allowed in a state, why the necessity for that line?

because some local police chiefs don't want people to own stuff even if the state of Say Ohio allows it as I explained in an earlier post

for years, the only way citizens of Hamilton county Ohio who lived in either the city of Cincinnati or some of the townships could own machine guns was through a trust. a guy I sort of know asked me if I wanted to be on his NFA trust as a beneficiary but I have a complicated estate and I declined though I learned a lot about the trusts reviewing his.
 
So, here's this: If said weapons are allowed in a state, why the necessity for that line?

As turtle explains, I may happen to live in a state where it is perfectly legal to own a machine gun and be a pillar of the community with a spotless record but the local police chief refuses to sign the ATF Form 4 because, in his opinion, no one should own NFA items. In these cases, a trust is the last recourse.

The ATF has stated in the past that they were looking at dropping the LE signature requirement entirely for the reason I stated above and the fact that it is redundant. If they did that, most folks would probably not go through the expense of a trust. As I said, I did it for practical reasons.

As far as strict guidelines, I would not call the guidelines all that strict really. The only onerous restriction is having to file paperwork with the ATF if I want to take my SBRs out of state. Suppressors can go anywhere however without any fuss. M
For the most part, NFA items are treated like any other firearm.
 
Last edited:
Isn't a gun trust also a way to own banned weapons?

No. all a trust is, is a fictitious "person" as a legal entity, just like a corporation.

A trust is not exempt from the laws that govern an individual.

in simplest terms, you form a trust, we'll say "Jet57 family trust" that trust is the legal equivelant of a person.

so your trust obtains firearms which are assets of this trust, and thus all trustees can use the trusts assets.

trusts are normally a part of probate law, and are used to hold assets for heirs to simplify the process of transferring title after death. they're used in some cases for firearms to allow multiple relatives access to a certain firearm. but they cannot be used to purchase a weapon an individual cannot own themselves.
 
Yeah, I am thanks. But why does a trust allow that in states that ban them?

it doesn't.

it can allow continued possession of a certain asset. like if say California bans AR-15s and states that AR-15s already existing cannot be transferred. if the AR-15 in question was held by a trust before that law went into effect, then that gun can legally be owned by the trust forever and as trustees die it continues to circulate among new trustees. it can do that, but it cannot acquire weapons currently banned. at most it can allow indefinite possession of a grandfathered gun....
 
So, here's this: If said weapons are allowed in a state, why the necessity for that line?

illustrated example, lets say me, you, and turtle are all family members and turtle buys a machine gun legally, or cancel, he hasn't bought it yet but wants all of us to have equal access. if turtle buys said gun as an individual you and I could not use or possess it unless we're in turtle's presence.

so we all form a trust, all three of us are trustees, the trust as a legal "person" acquires the gun, all three of us may then legally use it.

kind of like, say a security company hires armed guards and issues pistols, the pistols do not belong to any one individual, they belong to the business and hence may be used by any authorized member of that business. or say your company has a company car, the car doesn't belong to any one person, it's registered to the corporation.

that's how that works,
 
Suppressors are nice but too much bother to legally obtain.

Autos are fun but mainly for turning money into noise. :)


Like you say, not worth the bother for most.

Like classic hot rods. ;)
 
illustrated example, lets say me, you, and turtle are all family members and turtle buys a machine gun legally, or cancel, he hasn't bought it yet but wants all of us to have equal access. if turtle buys said gun as an individual you and I could not use or possess it unless we're in turtle's presence.

so we all form a trust, all three of us are trustees, the trust as a legal "person" acquires the gun, all three of us may then legally use it.

kind of like, say a security company hires armed guards and issues pistols, the pistols do not belong to any one individual, they belong to the business and hence may be used by any authorized member of that business. or say your company has a company car, the car doesn't belong to any one person, it's registered to the corporation.

that's how that works,

I love this idea, TD buys the guns, and we get to own them. TD is da Man! :lol:
 
Back
Top Bottom